Report: Black Men Mired In Social Crisis

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Good plan BH, however it would be much easier if we could get everyone to simply treat each other as they would a member of their own race, in every situation always.

If a member of my own race was behind in school, dropped out of high school, got incarcerated for selling drugs and wanted a second chance...

These situations in the article are aimed at black people who do the above, right? If a white guy did the same thing, I think he would get treated the same.

And if you think it's "easier" to get everyone to treat people equally, I just have to disagree. If it was easy, it would already be done. Getting a racist person to "come around" is MUCH harder than putting money into schooling programs, in my opinion. I've tried!

Ideally, yeah, we want equality, but I just don't know how practical that is.

None of us white folks can know what it is like,

True, true. I've said it a hundred times.

because we don't have to live as black in our world, but if we did, even for a day, we'd likely be shocked, and ashamed.

I'm actually looking into getting makeup and hair to do just that! I want to feel it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Ideally, yeah, we want equality, but I just don't know how practical that is.

And so it continues, this is the apathy, that many of us are guilty of when it comes to matters of race... Thinking we can't change it, we can't stop it, it's just not practical. Maybe it is true, but a truth that can change.

The answer lies within each of us, and how we treat our fellow humans, everyday always. We can't look at someone and see their race, because that is where the conditioned response begins, and so does the judgement. If we can really learn how to accept everyone around us as nothing more or less than we, things will change. And everything I've said applies to all, no matter what your color is.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
And so it continues, this is the apathy, that many of us are guilty of when it comes to matters of race...

Apathy is not caring, not having emotion around something, not being interested or concerned. I think it's clear that I have just the opposite of apathy around this.

What's not practical is MAKING other people treat people equally.

Thinking we can't change it, we can't stop it, it's just not practical. Maybe it is true, but a truth that can change.

I can do my part. I can treat other people equally, I can call people out when they practice racism, I can do my best to educate. But what can I do about the government funding? What can I do about the racist attitudes in other's heads?

What Can I Do?

If we can really learn how to accept everyone around us as nothing more or less than we, things will change.

If we can all do that, yes. Can we all do that? I can. How much power do I have to change other people?

Perhaps my use of the word "practical" was incorrect. What I meant is that it's not likely to happen that we can "get" everyone to treat each other equally.

Sorry, but to be told that I'm apathetic about this kind of ruffles my feathers...

posted by Benevolent Heretic

[Why help blacks?] Maybe because they [African Americans] need it?

(1) My opinion. . as long as we try to solve this [race] issue through the back door after the "damage" is done, we will be unsuccessful. Giving black men more and more opportunities, second-chance programs for school dropouts and ex-offenders, is just putting a Band-Aid on a gushing jugular. (2) If we aren't going to devote ALL of the energy into the youth, where the problem is FIRST occurring, we are wasting our time and money. (3) I don't support throwing money at a developed problem that's just going to keep occurring. [Edited by Don W]

1) American blacks face a total cultural breakdown. Every black person is in a Survivor TV show. You and I did not create this culture, B/H, it started in 1619 at Jamestown. In fact, the other day I heard someone say it started in 1609 in New Amsterdam -slavery- but anyway, it’s as old as America.

It is unfair not to keep trying to help any ex-con, but especially black ex-cons - perhaps 1 in 5 are innocent - to get the knowledge, opportunity and support it making a law-abiding life for themselves. We are too tight as a society to even have sufficient numbers of Parole Offiers who are our best watchdogs. Frontline. This must begin by a major overhaul of our criminal justice system. And total reconfiguring of our prison system. A band-aid? Yes, but we helped cut the jugular.

2) I dated a MSSW - Clinical Social Worker - and she was explaining to me that it is in their literature that welfare programs are chronically underfunded and all too often micro managed by people in authority who are ill informed and culturally unaware. My point is we must start with all single mothers-to-be with WIC and continue with high quality daycare they can afford. Like a co-pay based on income. We really do know all the answers but we have never had the will to follow up. That’s still what’s’s lacking. In spades unless that is P. In-C.

3) Single shot? Why do you ignore no-bid Halliburton contracts but want a black person to score the first time? Sounds to much like Pontius Pilate who heard the case then just “washed his hands” of the matter. A problem we can easily trace back 4 centuries cannot be solved in a day. Let’s just say it is a century 21 White Man’s Burden.

(1) But there's a systemic problem that must be addressed at the root. If blacks are having trouble in the formative years, there needs to be programs to "reward" teachers whose black students are doing well. (2) If programs aimed at adults were going to work, they'd be working already. And they are working for those who take proper advantage of them.

1) B/H, you’ve been watching too many Bush43 re-runs. “Reward” programs are a Republican euphemism for teacher’s union busting. Everybody is not motivated by money despite what Neo Cons will tell you. Besides, if you wait to start when the kids are in the 1st grade, then you have already lost a lot of children. Let’s start with WIC and end with tuition paid vocational training.

2) Unfortunately, a good vocational program takes 1-2 years to finish. It is impossible to know what trades are going to be in demand 2 years out. We need a revamping of our vocational training plan to give a strong general mechanical knowledge followed on by specific training, like we have been doing with medical doctors training programs for decades. Generalist training first, followed by specialists training next.

For a long time I have realized that this country pays lip service to their "most precious asset" children. We take all the money from the schools and put it into other programs for wars, oil companies, pharmaceuticals and big corporate businesses and then wonder why the kids are so messed up.

You’re directly quoting our president. Are you suggesting he lies? Are you going to “convert” to a Democrat?

“ . . simply cannot . . educate our children. Period. That's why people who can't afford it [education] have to stop having children. We're pumping out these kids into a system that can't take care of them. And a child, improperly attended . . “

Why knock the government? It’s the only agency we have that can do the job you’re talking about. Educate K-12, about 45 million people. Before the 1980s, we had good to excellent public schools. But the anti-abortion, anti no prayer in school, anti no bible reading, proponents of Under God, advocates of ID or Creationism have ruined the public schools. On purpose. With a plan.

Yes, we can try to get the government to straighten up its act, but good luck with that. We can't even get them to stop torturing and killing totally innocent people . .

Stop voting Republican for a start.

I strongly feel that the black community needs to take over the responsibility of this dilemma. NOT because they are at fault. NOT because they are asking for a handout or any of the other negative judgments. But because nobody else is going to.

It’s all about taxes and who pays taxes. No one can “take over” the education of 45 million children with no money. Somebody has to set priorities. And the rich have to pay taxes. They have the money.

We cannot redirect the war funds to the schools. Believe me, if we could, we would have already done that. These are my thoughts.

And B/H, may I join you in declaring these to be my thoughts, too?

[edit on 4/17/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Apathy is not caring, not having emotion around something, not being interested or concerned. I think it's clear that I have just the opposite of apathy around this.

I suppose it is a matter of interpretation BH, and perhaps choice of words. Don't take what I said personal, as I was speaking in general terms, as in this kind of thinking is quite wide spread, and many are as I said guilty of being apathetic when it comes to matters of race, and particularly when it comes to what we should do to stop it.

Oh and by the way...

ap·a·thy [ap-uh-thee]
–noun, plural -thies.
1. absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement.

2. lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.

3. Also, ap·a·thei·a, ap·a·thi·a Spelled Pronunciation[ap-uh-thee-uh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. Stoicism. freedom from emotion of any kind.

Should I have chosen another word?

And if so, which?

Originally posted by donwhite
Why do you ignore no-bid Halliburton contracts

What makes you think I do?

You’re directly quoting our president. Are you suggesting he lies?

I am not quoting the president. And yes, he lies all night and all day.

Are you going to “convert” to a Democrat?

WTF are you talking about?

Stop voting Republican for a start.

I have never voted Republican in my life.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by donwhite
This must begin by a major overhaul of our criminal justice system. And total reconfiguring of our prison system. A band-aid? Yes, but we helped cut the jugular.

I agree with you that our justice system needs a complete overhaul. The Bandaid I spoke of is "more second-chance programs for school dropouts and ex-offenders" mentioned in the original article. It's a bit like giving an aspirin to someone who's been hit by a truck and has internal bleeding. Yes, he needs surgery (justice system overhaul). But giving him an aspirin isn't going to help him, much less solve the problem for others like him.

Why do you ignore no-bid Halliburton contracts but want a black person to score the first time?

I honestly don't know what you mean here. I do NOT ignore no-bid Halliburton contracts. It's clear to me that this administration is totally corrupt, and are stealing the people's money. I said in my post:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We take all the money from the schools and put it into other programs for wars, oil companies, pharmaceuticals and big corporate businesses and then wonder why the kids are so messed up. Just imagine what we could do with a mere fraction of the money spent on war if we turned it into the school systems throughout the country! We could turn it around in a second!

And I don't know what you mean by "wanting a black person to score the first time"... Score what? What did I say that made you think this?

A problem we can easily trace back 4 centuries cannot be solved in a day.

I'll ignore the personal digs, but I agree with you that it's not a problem that going to be solved in a day.

Besides, if you wait to start when the kids are in the 1st grade, then you have already lost a lot of children. Let’s start with WIC and end with tuition paid vocational training.

Again, I'll ignore the personal digs as it's clear to me your assumptions about me are way off the mark.

I totally support starting earlier than 1st grade. I support starting at birth or before. And I support ending with tuition paid vocation training. My point (since it's clear that you're not getting it) is that I feel POWERLESS to make my government put money into these programs.

Tell me... How are you going to make them pay attention to this? Lest you be accused of being apathetic, too. Talk is cheap. What are you doing? What can I do?

Why knock the government? It’s the only agency we have that can do the job you’re talking about.

Because they're not doing it! That's why I knock them. They're not doing their job!

But the anti-abortion, anti no prayer in school, anti no bible reading, proponents of Under God, advocates of ID or Creationism have ruined the public schools. On purpose. With a plan.

Agreed! And these are the people (the government) you are counting on to change the situation and fix the problem?

Somebody has to set priorities. And the rich have to pay taxes. They have the money.

Yeah, exactly. How do we get that to happen? What is your plan? Besides words? How do you plan to make the rich pay taxes and set the right priorities?

And B/H, may I join you in declaring these to be my thoughts, too?

I can only assume that this is some sort of dig as it's clear you think my thoughts are full of crap. I don't get you donwhite. I don't get you at all...

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Should I have chosen another word?

And if so, which?

I should have chosen another word. Powerless. Instead of saying:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Ideally, yeah, we want equality, but I just don't know how practical that is.

I should have said that I feel totally powerless to make equality happen.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Racism is alive and well in the USA.

Yes, and no where is it more rampant than within the black community itself. One need look no further than the music that issues from the mouths of its representatives.

Does it not seem to everyone else that BLACK MALES are who is keeping society in a Throat Hold on Segregation. (Almost as if they like to be segregated and then blame it on the very people they are segregating themselves from)

Last night I was watching a show with 4 black men on it. (The heads of the HIP-HOP Entertainment) And you guys have always said that WHITE'S have thier hand in that which I am sure they do, but last night they made it seem like "WE ARE HOLDING A MEETING THIS WEEK WITH ALL THE DEPARTMENT HEADS OF THE MUSIC INDUSTRY" (Speaking alittle rasisct to me saying we and of course they would have had OPRAH do the interview because she is a WOMAN of COLOR.

The best part of the whole night for me was when the Female athletes put the four "n-words" on the stage in thier place whenever they brought up a situation they would state " Well it comes with us admitting there is a problem." HAHHAHAHAHA I couldn't believe what I was to hear next !!!! "The black woman responded "We have acknowledged that there is a problem that is why we are here !!!" THANK GOD, someone finally said it !!! It seems like people that talk about White Priveldge or Segregation or one race being more prominent over another always , always , always goes back to well why did this happen 10 years ago. THE REASON IS, because there WAS segregation. It has really disapted over the last 10 years TOTALLY.

Anyways, I find it funny that lyrics like Dr. Dre's Chronic 2000 CD has lyrics such as " All these niggaz and all these hoes and somebody here wanna #" in them ... that is on track 11, if any of you wanna research. I do not even listen to that music very much anymore but I remember hearing that song whenever I bought that CD whenever I was younger. It made me have a sick feeling in my stomach and this was when I was 16-17 years old.

I just want to re-itterate how proud of the females that stood up to those black men on the stage that are racists themselves. Obviously they didn't even wanna be on stage with a white man.(There was some debate about letting a white man on the stage with them to help MEDIA, oprah was trying to explain to them. Yet, they said they would not be on stage with a cracker. Maybe not in so many words, but still cracker was not allowed on stage with them.

Just to prove that they are racists besides me picking apart everything that they said ... I will tell you one thing that really caught my attention.

One of the men was talking about his son would ask him to go play with Timmy and now he said he doesn't think twice of it ... Almost as if his parents would have not let him play with a White kid just because he is white ??? Just lead me to believe such things ... After that comment he went on to explain just because "We didn't grow up with the same food in our mouths as whites" ... Are you kidding me ... Maybe this is just my family and I was raised in the country I don't know ... Soul Food and Chittlins isn't far away from what I ate whenever I was growing up. My dad would actually cook for our basketball team before we would play Play-Off games. I was one of the 3 whites on the team. Although I didn't really hang out with anyone , but two of the other blacks on my team. I went to church with one of the white guys really good guys just didn't hang out. Anyways ... Why when asked why are we segregating with BET and other things do blacks always respond we really need to be facing other events when these are the events holding us back.

Originally posted by donwhite
In fact, the other day I heard someone say it started in 1609 in New Amsterdam -slavery- but anyway, it’s as old as America.

Sorry donwhite … I don’t understand this. Would you explain it some more please?

Slavery of black Africans didn’t start in 1609. Slavery of black Africans started looooong before that. Modern history shows it from at least the year 700 A.D. Source Also - Slavery of humans as a whole has been around as long as humanity – it’s not ‘as old as America’. It’s most likely as old as humanity itself.

So I'm not sure where you are coming from by your statement that I quoted. Would you please explain it some more? Thank you.

but especially black ex-cons - perhaps 1 in 5 are innocent -

- Why 'especially black ex-cons'. Why be racist about it? Everyone should be equal.
- Please provide credible proof of the statement that 1 in 5 black convicts are innocent. Thank you.

** For those of you interested in reading information about innocent people on Death Row in America – read this – ‘Actual Innocence’ by Barry Scheck, Peter Neufeld, and Jim Dwyer. THIS is why I am against the death penalty in most cases. Very good reading.

Originally posted by donwhite
Are you going to “convert” to a Democrat?

That was funny! The thought of BH voting Republican! I just laughed so hard my coffee almost spurted out my nose! BTW .. the dems don't have the corner market on how to treat people equally or fairly. They THINK they do .. but they end up enabling and pandering ... rarely helping in the long run.

That's one more reason why this country needs MORE than just two major parties. I'm giving serious consideration to registering as a Libertarian.




[edit on 4/18/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Please at least click the full article link and read it before commenting.

Okay, I did.

Question for you UM_Gazz. The article discussed incarceration rates and drug use. It discussed drop out rates as well.

What if young black men turned off the angry-blameeveryoneelse-rap music that they rhytmically pound into their brains day after day ... what if they turned off those AWFUL videos that portray women in such a vile manner ... What if these young black men dumped the gansta-rapper idols ????

UM_Gazz - Think that would help their 'social crisis'? I do. Obviously it wouldn't solve everything, but it is something that they can do for themsevles and it is a start.

posted by Benevolent Heretic

I agree our justice system needs a complete overhaul. The Band-aid I spoke of is "more second-chance programs for school dropouts and ex-offenders" mentioned in the original article. It's a bit like giving an aspirin to someone who's been hit by a truck and has internal bleeding. Yes, he needs surgery (justice system overhaul). But giving him an aspirin isn't going to help him much less solve the problem for others like him. [Edited by Don W]

OK, but just because an aspirin won’t fix his internals, should we not alleviate his pain to the extent of an aspirin even if just temporary?

I do NOT ignore no-bid Halliburton contracts. It's clear this administration is totally corrupt and steal the people's money. I agree with you it's not a problem that’s going to be solved in a day. I totally support starting earlier than 1st grade. I support starting at birth or before. And I support ending with tuition paid vocation training. My point is that I feel POWERLESS to make my government put money into these programs. How are you going to make them pay attention to this? Lest you be accused of being apathetic, too. Talk is cheap.

Take comfort knowing there are many people out there who share your views and feelings of frustrations. I have had the good fortune to attend 1 Elderhostel program each of the last 5 years. It pleasantly surprises me to hear grand-parents expressing those same convictions and feeling the same helplessness. I’d say the “concerned” are 80% to the “satisfied” 20%. Remarkable.

CFR. I urge Campaign Finance Reform as the only way for the ordinary citizen to recapture the Congress and presidency. Private money must be banned from public elections. The US Treasury must pay for elections and electioneering. A necessary side benefit will be shorter, much shorter, campaigns. Not this 2 years monstrosity we call this freak show to find a president. Sweet Jesus, whoever is the last man/woman standing November 4, 2009, will be worn out physically, drained emotionally and compromised politically to the point of worthlessness. Perhaps we will finally learn our lesson this time?

Yeah, exactly. How do we get that to happen? What is your plan? Besides words? How do you plan to make the rich pay taxes and set the right priorities?

Living in America, I counsel patience and persistence. If I lived in Baghdad, I’d be making IEDs.


[edit on 4/18/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Slavery of black Africans didn’t start in 1609. Slavery of black Africans started looooong before that.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

As I said in another thread, blacks should petition Italy for redress. The caesars, et al, had black slaves looooong before anyone in America did.

When you get your reparations from the spaghetti-eaters, then you can start thinking about gettin' some of mine.

If you based help on income, I think that you'd find that there are many people of different races that for one reason or another have found themselves on the bottom rung of the economic ladder.

All to often we focus on race. I think that we should focus on income level instead. When children are born into poverty they will not have the same oppertunities that kids from middle class families will have. This is especially important with regard to education.

So, to help disadvantaged children, you really need to help the family. A child will not have an interest in becoming a reader if their parents don't read. A child will not see the importance of education if their parents don't place a value on it. A child will not aspire to become a PHd if they don't have a role model for this.

There was a program near where I live that had teachers going to homes of the economically disadvantaged and helping them create an environment that was positive for the education of their children. This had dramatic results.

If you never had a family that did the things necessary for a child to see the importance of an education then how will you raise your child ? You need to be taught to do the right things. To me this is the solution to the problem. And to me the problem exists for the poor and is not restricted to just one race.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
If you based help on income, I think that you'd find that there are many people of different races that for one reason or another have found themselves on the bottom rung of the economic ladder.

snip

Is there some reason that poor people can't take the initiative to nurture their own children? They have the same access to library materials that everyone else has. At what point do they take responsibility for themselves, or are we expected to foot the bill for everyone under a certain income level ad infinitum?

I've been at the bottom of the food chain twice. Both times I fought my depression, got off my buttocks, applied for jobs, and generally did what I had to do to get ahead.

It can be done. The issue is that it requires effort. Many people aren't interested in overexerting themselves. It's easier to sit on the La-Z-Boy in front of the Magnavox and wait for Mr. Postman to drop that check in the box than it is to get up every morning, take the bus to work in 10 degree weather, and spend eight hours doing a mind-numbing job.

BUT, that's how it's done. Day after day, month after month, year after year, you work your way slooowly up the food chain. Eventually you get where you're going.

YOU need to make the effort. If you don't, then you're poor for life and it's become just another excuse to be a slug who allows those who do make the effort to foot the bill.

I'm sick to death of paying for the lazy.

posted by FlyersFan

Sorry donwhite . . I don’t understand . . Modern history shows slavery [of Africans] from at least 700 A.D. Also slavery of humans has been around as long as humanity . . it’s not ‘as old as America’ . . It’s most likely as old as humanity itself. Explain it [slavery] some more please? [Edited by Don W]

Yes. I had reference only to the English colonies. It is generally agreed slavery began in Jamestown, VA, in 1619 when a Dutch sea captain sold a number of Africans into slavery. An historian on CSpan remarked that the first slaves were in the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam, later New York, by 1609. A distinction without a difference. More importantly, the 1619 transaction was not treated as “owning” a person but rather, was dealt with as an indentured servant, to be freed after 5, 7 or 9 years of labor, in payment of the Atlantic voyage. The ownership idea did not take hold in VA until the 1680s.

“ . . but especially black ex-cons - perhaps 1 in 5 are innocent Why 'especially black ex-cons' . . Why be racist about it? Everyone should be equal.

Your own operative words are “should be equal” which they are not.

For those interested in information about innocent people on Death Row in America read this, ‘Actual Innocence’ by Barry Scheck, Peter Neufeld, and Jim Dwyer. THIS is why I am against the death penalty in most cases. Very good reading.

I cannot add more to this on-going dispute. Let me just add, “prosecutors grandstand, fabricate, lie, cheat and steal” more often than you can count. Suborning perjury is routine in prosecutor’s offices. It’s a shame.

BTW . . the Dems don't have the corner market on how to treat people equally or fairly. They THINK they do . . but they end up enabling and pandering . . rarely helping in the long run.

Gosh, F/F, you left me dangling! Your operative words, “Dems don't have the corner market on how to treat people equally” had me ready and eager to hear you rebut my earlier accusations against Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Bush41 and Bush43, but alas, you fell silent. Hmm?

I sez, perhaps she is going to enumerate the racist ads sponsored by the Dems since 1980 like I had enumerated the Republicans had sponsored. But alas, Ms F/F, you again fell silent.

I guess if truth be known, Ms F/F, your best anti-Dems shots are “enabling and pandering . . rarely helping . . “ which is to say nothing the long way around.

That's one more reason why this country needs MORE than just two major parties. I'm giving serious consideration to registering as a Libertarian.

The Truth Will Out! Libertarianism is a fringe philosophy in deep denial. Modern anarchists in sheep’s clothing. The nicest thing I can say about Libertarians is they are anti-Diluvial in their aspirations.

[edit on 4/18/2007 by donwhite]

Ever talk to a black man from modern Africa? He's appalled by the fact that American blacks have so much on the plate before them and refuse to take advantage of the opportunities given them by current laws.

How do I know this? I work with native Africans. They're ashamed and embarrassed by American black culture, and they distance themselves every chance they get.

Originally posted by donwhite
I had reference only to the English colonies.

AHHHHHH okay. You are referencing only the black slavery in America thing and not black slavery around the world. Okay. I wasn't sure what you were getting at because slavery of black Africans goes WAY back. Much further than the ~1600 date you gave me.

Gotchya. But since you brought up slavery in America, which ended 250 years ago, I figured I’d post the facts about destinations of black slaves during the 1600-1800 time period. Compared to other countries, America had much lower numbers of slaves bought from Africa.

Destinations of black Africans sold into slavery out of Africa by other black Africans –

Muslim Countries – 17,000,000
Portugal/Brazil - 4,650,000
Spain - 1,600,000
France – 1,250,000
Holland: 500,000
Britain: 2,600,000
U.S.A.: 300,000
Denmark: 50,000
Others: 50,000
Total: 28,000,000
Source: "Slave Trade", Hugh Thomas, 1977

Compared to white Americans; it is a MUCH higher probability that the ancestors of black Americans owned black slaves. How does that truth affect the ‘social crisis’ of black Americans? Perhaps that fact should be part of what is taught during Black History Month.

muse.jhu.edu.../journals/civil_war_history/v050/50.4olsen.html
347,525 white Americans were listed by the census of 1850 as owners of slaves.
The US population in 1850 was 23,191,876
That makes the percentage of Americans who owned slaves in 1850 – 1.4%

1.4% of white Americans owned black slaves.
However 25% of the free black slave masters owned 10 or more black slaves.

THEN – slavery was endemic to Africa. Nearly all Africans practiced it. www.scaruffi.com...

How does the fact that slavery is still endemic to Africa affect the ‘social crisis’ of black Americans who call themselves 'African-American? Do they even realize it?

TODAY – 89% of African countries still have slavery.
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.religioustolerance.org...

FACT – Black Americans are FAR more likely to have had ancestors own black slaves then white Americans are. White American slave holders were 1.4%. Most black Americans are descended from Africa which had a near 100% slave practice.

FACT – Black Americans are FAR more likely to have had their ancestors owned by the ancestors of other black Americans, than by the ancestors of white Americans.

FACT – Only 4.4% of black Africans sold by other black Africans into the European/Americas end of slavery by ended up in North America.

I cannot add more to this on-going dispute.

Actually you did, and you did great. If you look at the book I referenced, it is chalk full of things like that. You'd probably like to read it.

you left me dangling!

How so? It was a simple statement and the truth. Dems don't have a corner market on taking care of people who find themselves in difficult times/situations. They pander to the moment and don't look at the future. Ya'll already covered that Republicans don't take care of folks. So what's left to say? No one is the ‘take care of ‘ party. But who says we have to have a ‘take care of’ party anyways?

you fell silent. Hmm? … Ms F/F, you again fell silent.

huh? You wanted me to get into a shouting match doing what? Defending republicans? Or perhaps you wanted me to regurgitate the facts about how the dems are pandering and buying minority votes without looking at the long term effects of doing that? You sound downright disappointed that I didn't. Like I said – no party is the ‘take care of’ party .. there is nothing left to say with it.

posted by FlyersFan

Gotchya. Since you brought up slavery in America, which ended 250 years ago, [142 years to be a bit more exact] I figured I’d post the facts about destinations of black slaves during the 1600-1800 time period. Compared to other countries, America had much lower numbers of slaves bought from Africa. “U.S.A.: 300,000" [Edited by Don W]

If you would add one zero to the number shown above, I’d have no quarrel with your report. It is my honest memory there were 600,000 slaves in the first census, 1790. Our Constitution - in one more of many concession to slavery - allowed the importation of slaves to be banned after 1808 but I’m not sure it ever was. I have read that before 1808, in anticipation of such a ban, there were wholesale slave breeding farms set up in the South.

Compared to white Americans; it is a MUCH higher probability that the ancestors of black Americans owned black slaves. How does that truth affect the ‘social crisis’ of black Americans? Perhaps that fact should be part of what is taught during Black History Month.

If i didn’t like you, F/F, I’d call that a cheap shot. But I won’t so let me only say, it is totally irrelevant to America in 2007.

347,525 white Americans in 1850 owned slaves. The US population in 1850 was 23,191,876. That makes the percentage of white Americans who owned slaves in 1850, 1.4%.

Some facts are useless. This must be one of them.

25% of the (free) black slave masters owned 10 or more black slaves. How does the fact slavery is still endemic to Africa affect the ‘social crisis’ of black Americans who call themselves 'African-American? Do they even realize it?

Not at all. How does this “fact” effect America’s race problem in 2007.

TODAY - 89% of African countries still have slavery according to BBC.
FACT - Black Americans are FAR more likely to have had ancestors who owned black slaves then white Americans are.
FACT – Black Americans are FAR more likely . .
FACT – Only 4.4% of black Africans sold by other black Africans . .

OK, good to know, especially if you are a geneticist or genealogist. But for ordinary Joes, it’s not even likely to show up in a Trivial Pursuit game.

How so? It was a simple statement and the truth. Dems don't have a corner market on taking care of people who find themselves in difficult times/situations. They pander to the moment and don't look at the future. Ya'll already covered that Republicans don't take care of folks. So what's left to say?

I’m not talking about “taking care” of anyone. I’m talking Corker v. Ford in 2006, Tennessee, and the slanderous and misleading Playboy ad with the black guy next to the white gal. That’s not “taking care of.” That’s stirring the pot. You know as well as I do that despite all the Dems faults, they DO NOT DO RACIST ADS. Is that too hard to admit?

You wanted me to get into a shouting match doing what? Defending republicans? You sound disappointed that I didn't. Like I said - no party is the ‘take care of’ party .. there is nothing left to say with it.

Yeah

You're in denial, F/F. Admit your GOP is made up of racists.

[edit on 4/18/2007 by donwhite]