Researchers explore scrapping Internet

Hasn't anyone heard of WiMAX? How about Mesh Networking? They may be able to cut off access to the backbones, but eventually, we'll just create our own. How? Think about that one for a sec. All the freedom loving nerds will find a solution at least a month after the potential problem becomes a reality.

I think its good to have innovation, the guys who put in the foudation stones for the internet didn't have crystal balls.

If it can be done properly, as a freestanding 'alt' internet a lot of serious issues could be addressed - the net as we all know and love will still be here, people will ultimatly make a switch if that is what they want.

Better than spending money on killing people and pretty fire works.

Sounds like a warning to keep the internet pro-government and for us to shut the f up already.....cause if we don't the big old bad new internet will roll over us....

We believe that the current Internet has significant deficiencies that need to be solved before it can become a unified global communication infrastructure. Further, we believe the Internet's shortcomings will not be resolved by the conventional incremental and 'backward-compatible' style of academic and industrial networking research. The proposed program will focus on unconventional, bold, and long-term research that tries to break the network's ossification. To this end, the research program can be characterized by two research questions: "With what we know today, if we were to start again with a clean slate, how would we design a global communications infrastructure?", and "How should the Internet look in 15 years?" We will measure our success in the long-term: We intend to look back in 15 years time and see significant impact from our program.

Source Link: cleanslate.stanford.edu...

The above are the people who have the "government's blessing".

Important quotes from the original article in the opening thread post:

From the original article
A new network could run parallel with the current Internet and eventually replace it, or perhaps aspects of the research could go into a major overhaul of the existing architecture.

From the original article
But spammers and hackers arrived as the network expanded and could roam freely because the Internet doesn't have built-in mechanisms for knowing with certainty who sent what.

The first time around, researchers were able to toil away in their labs quietly. Industry is playing a bigger role this time, and law enforcement is bound to make its needs for wiretapping known.

Looks like you all better take advantage of the current Internet while you can. Over the next 15 years things could change dramatically.

Reading this thread seems to me some may have a vested interest in keeping the internet bug and hole ridden. Some people may be loosing their hair because they can see how bloody usefull it might be if it wasn't (all to often) an unproductive and unreliable waste of time!!

It was just a matter of time was'nt it? NO ONE'S ALLOWED TO THINK!
They will start telling us now that the internet is a terrible thing and is creating more harm than good. That it is'nt used properly and that we will all be put on a tarriff compatable with our abilities and school qualification's. We as individual's will only learn what the powers that
be want us to learn. It's scarey stuff. It's not inconcevable though is it?
I could go on, but i won't..

Originally posted by Johnmike
IPv6 isn't anything to be afraid of. It supports more IP addresses. Which is good if you don't want to run out.

What else does Internet2 do, and what's so bad about it?

IPv6 would be an amazing improvement over ipv4 for the simple fact of priority routing (media packets will get a higher priority when being sent to you, meaning MUCH smoother video/audio among other things) and the massive amounts of ip addresses. Its something that needs to happen.

On the other hand its also another way to implement an easier back door into the protocol itself for the gov. In the same breath an easier back door for the Gov also means an easier back door for hackers.

They could faze this in over two steps. Have all ISP's provide both IP4/IP6 for a certain period of time. Once the kinks are worked out make the full switch. Its really not that hard and doesn't need a full rebuild of the entire internet.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by leafer]

Originally posted by madmangunradio

Linux is FREE, you own it, you don't rent it, and it also means freedom, try it and you will know what I mean. I enjoy the feeling of goodwill Linux brings, people volunteer to make Linux what it is.

- Quote from Toadmund

Ubuntu is amazing! Im a BSD guy, however, I was asked to check it out and now I use it on my laptop. I am absolutely impressed.

Im also impressed with the community behind it. Only reason why I dont use it on my desktop is because of BF2. Cant seem to get WINE to allow me to play it in a linux environment.

Hehehe, much the same.. I was using ubuntu dapper, then feisty for a few months, but having to keep a windows partition for my fix of COD2 was a pain...

If only these companies would support linux, Id be happy in linux land free of m$ at all..

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

We believe that the current Internet has significant deficiencies that need to be solved before it can become a unified global communication infrastructure. Further, we believe the Internet's shortcomings will not be resolved by the conventional incremental and 'backward-compatible' style of academic and industrial networking research. The proposed program will focus on unconventional, bold, and long-term research that tries to break the network's ossification. To this end, the research program can be characterized by two research questions: "With what we know today, if we were to start again with a clean slate, how would we design a global communications infrastructure?", and "How should the Internet look in 15 years?" We will measure our success in the long-term: We intend to look back in 15 years time and see significant impact from our program.

The above are the people who have the "government's blessing".

First, the entire premise here is bogus. It's based on the lie/assumption that the internet is FUBARed, the same argument used by those who wanted to dump x386 chip architecture & scrap the bowl of old of spaghetti that is windows' core code--it was never meant to advance that far, it's all cobbled together, patches, making do, adding on pool rooms and eat-in kitchens to a ramshackle hillbilly shack. And it's arrogant in the extreme.

Fact is, the internet evolved and is evolving just fine, thank you. Innovations move apace with advances in computer technology, and today you have functionalities that no one even dreamed about 15 years ago, and in 15 years' time, if left to evolve naturally, you'll continue to see more of same. The old problems gradually are solved, and die off. Remember that wonderful quote by Bill Gates about 256 kb ram (IIRC) being the Holy Grail, all we'll ever need?

From the original article
A new network could run parallel with the current Internet and eventually replace it, or perhaps aspects of the research could go into a major overhaul of the existing architecture.

The gov't and allied research facilities and universities already have their secure private network, why do we need a third one?

From the original article
But spammers and hackers arrived as the network expanded and could roam freely because the Internet doesn't have built-in mechanisms for knowing with certainty who sent what.

"The Internet doesn't have built-in mechanisms for knowing with certainty who sent what" is obviously the problem here--for some. For me this is its crowning glory.

Some people just can't stand the idea of freedom--and they all seem to be working for the US gov't.

The first time around, researchers were able to toil away in their labs quietly. Industry is playing a bigger role this time, and law enforcement is bound to make its needs for wiretapping known.

Outrageous, outright admission of the real purpose here. they don't even try to hide their eagerness to become Big Brother. Translation: the MIC, CIA, FBI and NSA want to know everything you input and save on your computer, without having to bother to obtain a search warrant.

Looks like you all better take advantage of the current Internet while you can. Over the next 15 years things could change dramatically.

They assume their shiny new internet will be hacker-proof, and the rest of the world doesn't exist. Neo-isolationist soft fascism, Fortress Amerika. More staggering hubris. It will indeed be very interesting to see where this leads.

When I read this story on Yahoo, I was completely unnerved. I've always viewed the Internet as the last stand in freedom of speech. I don't think the government foresaw the potential of sites like this one for the ability for people to freely express themselves. Now they want to curtail that by reinventing the internet so they have total control. The last step to world domination and New World Order. I think we need to watch this closely.

Originally posted by stompk
When I read this story on Yahoo, I was completely unnerved. I've always viewed the Internet as the last stand in freedom of speech. I don't think the government foresaw the potential of sites like this one for the ability for people to freely express themselves. Now they want to curtail that by reinventing the internet so they have total control. The last step to world domination and New World Order. I think we need to watch this closely.

I think in many ways you're spot on.

The whole trajectory of the Bush Admin. has the feeling of an endgame--a desperate, Strangelovian lunge for absolute control.

All norms, all decency, all morality, are mocked and belittled, with appeals to the lizard brain, and we are being forced to trade freedom for security in a world they've purposely destabilized.

I believe there is another possibility here. The Internet is growing and changing already, however I believe we are talking about more than just control over the Internet here.

As we continue to move into the future, more and more of the communications devices we use will become more interactive, and have access to the Internet, and for the most part, a lot of these communications devices, cell phones etc. already have the ability to do this. Again, if in the new Internet as the researchers stated, they will have the ability to clearly know and identify, and locate "who sent what" then when using communications devices that use the Internet also provides them opportunities they can only dream of now, Television, at home entertainment systems are and will further integrate and interface with the new Internet, hell even newer cars are going to have Internet technologies and connection capabilities. In the future we may be totally dependant on various forms of the Internet that at present we may not totally understand. Our lives will no longer be private, we each will be an open book to anyone with authority, they will literally be watching you.

And then...

Originally posted by UM_Gazz


And then...

We pull the plug, its as simple as that Dont like it then dont use it is what i say.

How much you wanna bet Bush attacks Iran before the end of his term so that he can make a constitutional change that allows a President stay in office as long as we are at war. What a perfect time to institute the new internet as a defence to "electronic terrorism" such as researching goverment coverups.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Hasn't anyone heard of WiMAX?

So what's your point? Your talking about the means by which data is transferred not the underlying mechanics. The concern is the governing protocols changing which could present other challenges. Wireless MANs will continue to flourish and so to will the foundations of how the Internet itself functions. On a very small scale I can see where your going but the implications would result in a fractured Internet not the true global community that stands today.

Originally posted by leafer
IPv6 would be an amazing improvement over ipv4 for the simple fact of
priority routing (media packets will get a higher priority when being sent to you, meaning MUCH smoother video/audio among other things) and the massive amounts of ip addresses. Its something that needs to happen.

I disagree. QOS features exist today for IPv4 to prioritize packets and provide for a very fluid delivery of multimedia. The main goal of IPv6, as you've clearly stated, is to provide additional IP space and get rid of NAT (which has really outdone itself).

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Again, if in the new Internet as the researchers stated, they will have the
ability to clearly know and identify, and locate "who sent what" then when
using communications devices that use the Internet also provides them
opportunities they can only dream of now, Television, at home entertainment
systems are and will further integrate and interface with the new Internet,
hell even newer cars are going to have Internet technologies and connection
capabilities. In the future we may be totally dependant on various forms of
the Internet that at present we may not totally understand. Our lives will
no longer be private, we each will be an open book to anyone with authority,
they will literally be watching you. And then...

I disagree. People are savvy and when its designed by one person it can typically be circumvented by another. We have several industries today to prove my point. Satellite(commercial televsion) is an industry plagued by hackers and this has been going on for a long time. A lot of revenue is lost but the reality is very little can be done to combat the problem for a lot of various reasons. The MPAA and RIAA are treading water in a sea of futility and frustration. Are these industries directly linked to the Internet....in many ways yes and more so by your statements. Software piracy is rampant we all know that. The information used as workarounds is just a click away which leads back to having an IP address. Others have stated that newer protocols could produce back doors which is unfounded. RFC's are available that clearly outline how these protocols function and they have to exist with merit for the IT world to provide service levels and a business infrastructure. My point is cliched but where theres a will there's a way and those who want privacy or the ability to anonymize themselves from the all seeing eye will find it. I look forward to it.

brill


[edit on 15-4-2007 by brill]

badwOlf said:

If only these companies would support linux, Id be happy in linux land free of m$ at all..

They will if people switch to Linux, numbers matter, as of now the monopoly OS has 90% of the market and works to ensure that through Anti-Trust shenanegans.
That's got to change.
Break free and support what is right, numbers matter.
Linux is improving all the time, it's catching up, look what it's up against! It needs more warm bodies (and braaaiiins).



leafer said:

IPv6 would be an amazing improvement over ipv4 for the simple fact of priority routing (media packets will get a higher priority when being sent to you, meaning MUCH smoother video/audio among other things) and the massive amounts of ip addresses. Its something that needs to happen.

But at the expense of everything else?
When one thing is priority, other things are not a priority. I don't watch a lot of video, should I be sacrificing my websurfing to cater to the watchers? Who provides the 'premium' content, and at what cost?

We know they are trying to hack away at 'Net Neutrality' the goal is to make the net a cash cow to those who can pay the big $$$, the big media companies, probably combined with M$ (opinion) are seeing big dollars and big control over what you see and who provides it.

Don't believe the hype!

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
Plus who would give these so called "researchers" the right for control over the biggest technological advance in years.

They could be in part some of the original researchers who first helped create the Internet as we know it now. And remember, they do have the blessing of the federal government, which means mega grants, so money should not be a problem for these researchers, and do we know how deeply the government is really involved in this new research?

One can only speculate what this new Internet will be like.

you can damn well bet ATS will be gone if this is the case... bye bye free speech in its last form.

Coven Out

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Originally posted by iori_komei
Sort of like chopping off an arm and replacing it with a completely
new muscular one, just becaue it is not muscular enough.

Interesting and somewhat odd analogy.

Going with it though.. The chopped off arm still remains connected, and is by design allowed to slowly die a respectful death, the new arm uses the connection to the old to gather even more strength, ultimately sucking the life out of the chopped off arm.

Face it folks, we are talking about the beginning of an all changing technological revolution, designed to better control the exchange of information, they can tell you it will improve performance and security, and show you all the amazing new user friendly features, and you will warm up to this new Internet, and accept it as a benevolent necessity, a part of the evolution, and the next phase of mankind's advancement.

If you think they are monitoring your activity now, just wait until things change.

As I said in another post in this thread, "Resistance will be futile."

am I the only person here thinking that they can't really pull this off? even in the days when the church would burn you alive for scientific knowledge, the books were passed on to the people who wanted/needed the knowledge.
eventually this knowledge became acceptable and man bettered himself for it.

now that said

whats to say when they do this phase out, and they check our backlog of WWW1 records; isn't it possible it could lead the government further from the disembodyment of internet/person connection? i.e. everybody here has proof on there computer they are into CT's in some way. Then they check our google video records, and they learn the details of the CT's We believe.
I think this could actually turn out to be a good thing, because when a public is informed, and a corrupt government knows it; said government tends to collapse upon itself.

America could be setting itself up to fall like rome, off the backs of the american people.

Coven out 2

Just to add some new info found(and hopefully not perceived as a thread hijacking):

A programme to kick-start the use of internet communications in space has been announced by the US government. The Department of Defense's Iris project will put an internet router in space by the start of 2009. It will allow voice, video and data communications for US troops using standards developed for the internet.

Eventually Iris could extend the net into space, allowing data to flow directly between satellites, rather than sending it via ground stations.

"Iris is to the future of satellite-based communications what Arpanet was to the creation of the internet in the 1960s," said Don Brown, of Intelsat General, one of the companies who will build the platform.

src: news.bbc.co.uk...

The talk is to extend this capability solar system wide. Are we witnessing initial steps or just a logical extension to what already exists ?

brill

"We made decisions based on a very different technical landscape," said Bruce Davie, a fellow with network-equipment maker Cisco Systems Inc., which stands to gain from selling new products and incorporating research findings into its existing line.

"Now, we have the ability to do all sorts of things at very high speeds," he said. "Why don't we start thinking about how we take advantage of those things and not be constrained by the current legacy we have?"

This to me does a better job of summing up the intent of creating a new internet. The internet was originally used to move data back and forth between networks. No one foresaw the massive use of internet in daily life when they were originally making the network. They had no idea at the massive sizes of the data files people would be moving (ie streamed media files). Originally people just sent emails, went to text-based websites and conversed in the newsgroups ... almost everything was text-based.

The internet has gotten better and better over the years because they keep expanding the bandwidth but not much other changes. The internet works well because it was designed not to be dependent on any particular server and to re-route itself when servers were down or busy. For this same reason it would be difficult, but not impossible, for the system to be completely dismantled.

Like every other technology in the world change is not a bad idea. My cars aren't using nearly the same engine the Henry Ford designed, yes it's an internal combustion, but there's been a whole lot of changes .. mostly for the better.