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Palestine has a chance for independence, all they have to do is lay down their weaponry and accept that Israel has beaten them, and they will have a nation of their own.
Well, they have the land! They do, honestly. Israel does not discriminate against other faiths, they are a secular society that is continually liberalizing. IF the Palestinians dropped their weapons, formed an actual working government, accept defeat.. they would have no problems getting to holy sites, even immigrating to Israel as a citizen. Israel ALREADY allows them access, but Palestinians do not like check points and security walls.
Palestine was a nation before it was conquered by Umar in 640 - so don't tell me they never were a nation. After that, Palestine was more or less independent before it was given to the UK in 1922 (The British Mandate). That's the time when a mass immigration of Jewish people began in the first place! In the early 20th century, the Jewish population was just about 5% in this area - This is something most people just want to forget.
- May 15, 1948 Israel War of Independence (1948 War). Declaration of Israel as the Jewish State / British leave Palestine; Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia declared war on Israel. Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian invasion began. After the war, Israel gained about 50% more territory than was originally allotted to it by the UN Partition Plan.
Now, the story gets interesting...
- June 5-10,1967 Six day war . Israel destroys the Egyptian air force on the ground, conquers and occupies Sinai and Gaza, then conquers the West Bank from Jordan, and Golan Heights from Syria. UN resolution 242 called for Israeli withdrawal and guess who does VETO? The US (Over 23 times in future resolutions)
- June 7, 1981 Israel destroys Iraqi nuclear reactor in daring raid.
- June 6, 1982 Massive Israeli invasion of Lebanon to fight PLO.
- March-April 2002 Israel conducts operation Defensive Wall in the West Bank, following a large number of Palestinian suicide attacks on civilian targets. Saudi peace initiative adopted at Beirut summit.
Because i have just 500 characters left, and already proved some of your statements wrong, i will ask you a question, and i want it answered this time:
Imagine the Russian minority in the US is uprising. The UN is against it but Russia places a VETO and they decide to make Ohio a Russian province. They force you and your children out of your house, teargassing American children when they try to throw stones at their tanks, killing civilians and so on. What would you do?
As for what you call "war crimes" - there has been no known war crime to be committed by the Israeli government, regardless of the biased and wasteful UN. Political statements can be made, but the truthful facts still remain, Israel has not committed known war crimes.
Show me a war where civilians don't die. Civilian buildings destroyed? Of course. Civilians targeted for psychological warfare to break moral and cause severe depression and anxiety? War is hell.
Nice post, but please don't get personal, when I am complaining that i wanted an answer to something, you don't need to talk about "my standards" , because that has nothing to do with the debate.
I want to answer first to your "History Briefing" about Palestine. I started it yes, but just disprove your statement that "Palestine was NEVER a nation" - nothing more. I never said, that this justifies their actions my friend
And you really believe Israel don't started the 6 Day War? Isn't a "preemptive strike" a start? It is. So your statement is wrong - but, you're right if you say they didn't have a choice, i agree. They really had to start it.
The UN is "biased and wasteful"? And Amnesty International and the Red Cross, too? Or do you stamp them like me "Anti Israeli"?
?? Thanks god you're not a commanding general. Really.
Bottom line, there were mistakes on both sides during the last 6 centuries of war. Too many people died, and if we believe Amnesty International, there are more civilian deaths on the Palestinian side, that military deaths on the Israeli.
The UN passes quite a bit of resolutions, however most resolutions against Israel have to do with incursions to cull terrorist attacks in Palestine.
As for Amnesty International, I would strongly advise not using ANY information from them.. not only do they very selectively decide which stories to cover (almost all involve the United States, Israel or the UK) so that they can portrait those they hate in a bad light, completely ignoring crimes against humanity in much of South America, Africa, China, South East Asia, and even the Middle East.. ADL (Anti-Defamation League) called Amnesty International "Bigoted, Biased, and Border Line Anti-Semitic"
That's your point of view. Please don't tell me the UN is anti-Semitic I posted a good link with all of the resolutions - have you actually read them all to make such a statement? It seems that you didn't.
Only the far left follow the preachings of Amnesty. Cases like there attempt to call our Cuban prison a place of torture and inhumane treatment. They even wanted enemy combatants to have civil trials in American court rooms!! They have an agenda, like most, but there agenda is blatantly anti-American, anti-semitic and hardcore left wing.
Well, if you ask people who they trust more, ADL or Amnesty, i think there's a ration about 10:1
if my opponent is telling me that the UN, Amnesty International and the Red Cross are all anti-Semitic?
Since the mid 1970's theres been an international consensus to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It's called the "2 states settlement". And it's pretty straight forward, uncomplicated. Israel has to fully withdraw from the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem in accordance to the international law, since it's inadmissible to acquire territory by war.
In 1981, as pressure comes to Israel to reach a diplomatic way, they decided to invade Lebanon in order to crush the PLO, because the PLO was on record supporting a 2 State Settlement
Strange thing is, Israel has not even one point of sovereignties of Jerusalem under international law. Read the World Court decision, they concluded that "Jerusalem is occupied Palestinian territory", that's official my friend.
So, this debate isn't easy. Rockpuck made some very good moral and ethical points. But overall, we can't just ignore the international law.
You can't invade one country because it's not operating under international law, but approve another country witch isn't either. That's a double standard that has to stop.
And finally, Israel will play every time it's "Your anti-Semitic" and "Holocaust" Card, when they receive pressure. That was even used in this thread as a main argument of Rockpuck.
Is the Holocaust justifying War Crimes on the Palestinian population? Is it justifying 40 years of ignoring the international law?