The Trouble With Islam

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
like threatening the life of the Dalai Lama

For those reading .... here is something on the life of the Dalai Lama being threatened recently.

Hindu.com

Edited to add - the discussion of it is here -
www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 4/4/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
hmmm .. there are half a dozen posters in here. Where are the 'a lot' ?
How on earth could you possibly know what poltiical viewpoints these
half dozen posters hold .. none said. And I see no 'Accept Jesus or go to hell' posting ... so much for your 'jesus freak types'.

How on earth could I know indeed... by perhaps... doing some homework on them?

Wise-arse...

Get some glasses.

LOL... very good... have a cookie...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

The Jewish faith is one of prophecy. Christ fulfilled that prophecy.
Christ fulfilled the Old Testament. It's done.

You definately can have the New without the Old.

Yes the Old Testament was a book of prophecy, but it is also a book of laws. And Jesus commanded his followers to obey them.

17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-20

BTW .. ya'll .. I thought this was about the trouble with ISLAM .. not Christianity?? Or is it now open to the trouble with _______ (fill in the blank)??

Yes this is still a “Trouble with Islam” thread, but do to the nature of the attack the easiest way to defend Islam against it is to compare Islam to another religion. The religion I am most acquainted with is Christianity. The Old Testament is filled with many of the same charges made against Islam, so I’m using Christianity to defend Islam.
I am not trying to derail the thread, just doing my best to state my position that Islam is no worst then any other religion.
edit: I made a grammatical error.

[edit on 4-4-2007 by Mr Mxyztplk]

Islam is no worst then any other religion.

Really? Try comparing Islam to Buddhism. Islam makes the claim to be a religion of "peace," compared to Buddhism, Islam isn't even close to being a peaceful religion.

Here is a comment from Ayatollah Khomeni

A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives"

Real peaceful

Yeah real peaceful,moral too.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Islam is no worst then any other religion.

Really? Try comparing Islam to Buddhism. Islam makes the claim to be a religion of "peace," compared to Buddhism, Islam isn't even close to being a peaceful religion.

You want me to compare Islam and Buddhism, sure why not.
If I did have to choose a religion between the two, I would have to go with Islam.
Is Islam the more peaceful of the two, obviously not, Buddhism does not fight for anything.
While Islam fights to better the world (keeping in mind that “better” is a subjective view), the Buddhists reject all reality, why try to make something better when it does not exist?
Is the “Peaceful religion always the “better” religion? I personally would rather fight for what I think is right then do nothing at all. But that’s just my opinion.

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk

To point to Islam only and say how evil it is, is to say the least disingenuous, and at most evil its self. Every religion has good and bad points to it. Right now most Islamic countries are suffering from poverty and oppressive governments propped up by the US government, hence the hate by the people towards the US.
As for the Sharia laws being evil, I find them to be no more or less evil then the Christian Bible, you know the book that recommends that homosexuals be stoned to death.
I find that rather funny, because that is exactly what we are doing.
Invading their countries and imposing our believes on them, at the point of a M-16A3 assault rifle, and bunker buster bombs. But they are the evil ones? Please explain.

Sharia law is evil,no question.People are hung,stoned,hands,legs,arms cut off.Women are treated worse than animals.This may have worked thousands of years ago,but today it is just barbaric. As far as the west forcing their beliefs at the barrel of a gun,bull where are muslims being forced to convert to another religion? It's the other way around.Muslims are forcing others to convert to Islam on pain on death.It is muslims who emigrate to other countries,and then force their new country to change is laws and beliefs to accommodate them.Anybody who disagrees with them is labeled racist,intolerant,ect ad nauseum. The bible says that homosexuals be stoned to death,show me an example say within the last 700 years. Islam is intent on taking over the world.That is the goal stated by the "extremists".The rest seem to afraid to speak out. Of course with the way the savages murder one can hardly blame them.Still something must be done,people must stand up to them.If you keep your head buried in the sand,sooner or later your going to get kicked in the a.s.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Here is a comment from Ayatollah Khomeni

A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives"

Real peaceful

Yeah real peaceful,moral too.

That is to say the least a rather spurious argument, taking one of the worst quotes you could find from one of many spiritual leaders and posting it. I could do a search one quotes from Christian leaders that are equally horrendous, but I see little point in doing so.

Originally posted by rdang


Sharia law is evil,no question.

No more so then Judaic-Christian law.

People are hung,stoned,hands,legs,arms cut off.Women are treated worse than animals.This may have worked thousands of years ago,but today it is just barbaric.

I’m not disagreeing with this, maybe you should have name this thread “The Trouble With Islamic Theocracies and I would have had no problem with the rest of what you said, in steed you attacked the religion as a whole, and that I have a problem with.

As far as the west forcing their beliefs at the barrel of a gun,bull where are muslims being forced to convert to another religion? It's the other way around.Muslims are forcing others to convert to Islam on pain on death.

Only in some isolated cases. For centuries there have been Jewish and Christian communities through out the Middle East.

It is muslims who emigrate to other countries,and then force their new country to change is laws and beliefs to accommodate them.Anybody who disagrees with them is labeled racist,intolerant,ect ad nauseum.

just when we in the west go to other cultures we demand that they accommodate us. And I think the fact that people whom act like jerks to immigrants just because they are immigrants, are looked at as racists is one of the West’s better points.

The bible says that homosexuals be stoned to death,show me an example say within the last 700 years.

You think that there has been no Christian violence towards homosexuals in the last seven hundred years? You’re kidding, right?

[edit on 4-4-2007 by Mr Mxyztplk] spelling mistake


[edit on 4-4-2007 by Mr Mxyztplk]

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
You think that there has been no Christian violence towards homosexuals in the last seven hundred years?

Hitler mass murdered hundreds of thousands of homosexuals in the Nazi Camps. He was raised Catholic but obviously wasn't practicing his faith. (hundreds of thousands of Catholics were murdered by him in the camps too).

Other than that, there are pockets of radical whackos who claim Christianity and who threaten, and sometimes kill, anyone who doesn't follow their particular way of worship. The KKK is an example of warped Christian beliefs ... stringing up homosexuals, Catholics, and 'those marked with the sign of Cain' (black skin) **.

** no, that's not my belief, but it is the belief of some very fanatical types who claim Christianity.

Still - these are not nearly as wide spread or as deadly as what is seen in fundamentalist-Islamic countries.

www.youtube.com...
This is just sick. You cant blame the children who are just repeating what there parents say. the problem is this breeds hate and ignorance. This is the problem I see with islam.

[edit on 023030p://5604pm by semperfoo]

Originally posted by semperfoo
www.youtube.com...
This is just sick. You cant blame the children who are just repeating what there parents say. the problem is this breeds hate and ignorance. This is the problem I see with islam.

[edit on 023030p://5604pm by semperfoo]

And you thin that Islam is the only one guilty of this? I beg to differ sir.

Warning these videos contain explicit language and content of a disagreeable nature.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Islam is not the only religion of hate. Most religions propagate hate to one degree or an other.

Sharia law is evil,no question.

No more so then Judaic-Christian law.

Show me where Judaic-Christian law killed homosexuals.

People are hung,stoned,hands,legs,arms cut off.Women are treated worse than animals.This may have worked thousands of years ago,but today it is just barbaric.

I’m not disagreeing with this, maybe you should have name this thread “The Trouble With Islamic Theocracies and I would have had no problem with the rest of what you said, in steed you attacked the religion as a whole, and that I have a problem with.


That's because the religion supports this as a whole.

As far as the west forcing their beliefs at the barrel of a gun,bull where are muslims being forced to convert to another religion? It's the other way around.Muslims are forcing others to convert to Islam on pain on death.

Only in some isolated cases. For centuries there have been Jewish and Christian communities through out the Middle East.

And every one of them is reduced to second class.How about Islam treated the same in a non muslim country,forced to pay a tax.

It is muslims who emigrate to other countries,and then force their new country to change is laws and beliefs to accommodate them.Anybody who disagrees with them is labeled racist,intolerant,ect ad nauseum.

just when we in the west go to other cultures we demand that they accommodate us. And I think the fact that people whom act like jerks to immigrants just because they are immigrants, are looked at as racists is one of the West’s better points.

Show where Christians go to a muslim country and demand they change.Rather it's the Christians whoe are forced to leave the muslim country because of the massive discrimination they are placed under.

The bible says that homosexuals be stoned to death,show me an example say within the last 700 years.

You think that there has been no Christian violence towards homosexuals in the last seven hundred years? You’re kidding, right?


No,show me where homosexuals have been stoned to death by Christians as a "law" of the religion.However the koran the Pact of Umar spells how Dhimmis[non believers] are to be treated.

[edit on 4-4-2007 by Mr Mxyztplk] spelling mistake


[edit on 4-4-2007 by Mr Mxyztplk]

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk

Originally posted by semperfoo
www.youtube.com...
This is just sick. You cant blame the children who are just repeating what there parents say. the problem is this breeds hate and ignorance. This is the problem I see with islam.

[edit on 023030p://5604pm by semperfoo]

And you thin that Islam is the only one guilty of this? I beg to differ sir.

Warning these videos contain explicit language and content of a disagreeable nature.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

You still dont get it. I am not in favor of any of those videos you showed. Its disgusting. but its the scale of magnitude that is the difference between islam and those extreme views in those videos. Your always going to find the bad in people. Example. That church has 100 members max and they are completely ridiculed by society to day. The KKK and "arian brotherhood" is an abomination that is also ridiculed by todays society. And its true that there is racism on all corners of the earth. But lets not put everyone in that category. Because its safe to say that is not the case for the entire world. Islam is a mass religion that preaches hate against the west, and hate against isreal in particular. Its sick that these ppl want to wipe isreal off of the map. And they carry out attacks against isreal on a day to day basis because of their ideology, their religion. And its safe to say not all muslims are like this. But it seems that enough are sticking with this ideology of hate and the "ring leaders" who let their actions speak for all of islam. Its all we see.

This vid is graphic so you were warned.
www.youtube.com...

Islam is not the only religion of hate. Most religions propagate hate to one degree or an other.

I dont entirely agree... Here are a few examples of the teachings of Islam:
Men are superior to women. (Surah 2:22)
Women have half the rights of men:
In court witness. (Surah 2:282)
In inheritance. (Surah 4:11)
A man may beat his wife. (Surah 4:34)
A man may marry up to 4 wives at the same time. (Surah 4:3)
Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam. (Surah 9:29)
A Muslim must not take a Jew or a Christian for a friend. (Surah 5:51)
A Muslim apostate must be killed. (Surah 9:12)

The thing is, horrible events such as slavery, the KKK, and Hitler were all brought to their knees by the west. We decided we werent going to let them be the tail that wagged the dog. We dealt with the skeletons in our closet, now its islams turn.

The trouble with Islam is: *drumroll* Its public face has been hijacked by groups of very dangerous people who blow things up. For the most part, Muslims don't want to do this (blowing things up), they just want to raise their kids, pay the bills, etc...

But as they say, perception is all. When you have groups like Hamas, Hezzbollah, and a plethora of others all screaming for bloody war and vengence against the west, its easy for the other side of Islam to get lost in the blood and gore. I'm not defending Islam in its totallity, I have issues with many of the teachings and practises therein. Many Muslims have issues with Islam. IMHO, within my lifetime there will be a Reformation of sorts within Islam. It has to happen, or Islam will eventually implode in on itself.

Originally posted by rdang
No,show me where homosexuals have been stoned to death by Christians as a "law" of the religion.However the koran the Pact of Umar spells how Dhimmis[non believers] are to be treated.

You me to show you violence against homosexuals, based upon Judeo-Christian law? most violence against them is. Just because the secular governments have outlawed these practices does not mean they do not take place. And just because the government has outlawed it does not affect the religious law. If you actually want to see violence against homosexuals just Google it and you’ll probably get millions of hits, most of which would be Christians committing the acts, if in the US.
But dude really, why all the hate on Islam? Why care so much about what others believe or what they practice?

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk

Originally posted by rdang
No,show me where homosexuals have been stoned to death by Christians as a "law" of the religion.However the koran the Pact of Umar spells how Dhimmis[non believers] are to be treated.

You me to show you violence against homosexuals, based upon Judeo-Christian law? most violence against them is. Just because the secular governments have outlawed these practices does not mean they do not take place. And just because the government has outlawed it does not affect the religious law. If you actually want to see violence against homosexuals just Google it and you’ll probably get millions of hits, most of which would be Christians committing the acts, if in the US.
But dude really, why all the hate on Islam? Why care so much about what others believe or what they practice?

killing goes against the 10 commandments. Stoning a person to death would be killing a person. which is against one the 10 commandments. So I dont see the correlation.

Originally posted by semperfoo

You still dont get it. I am not in favor of any of those videos you showed. Its disgusting. but its the scale of magnitude that is the difference between islam and those extreme views in those videos. Your always going to find the bad in people. Example. That church has 100 members max and they are completely ridiculed by society to day. The KKK and "arian brotherhood" is an abomination that is also ridiculed by todays society. And its true that there is racism on all corners of the earth. But lets not put everyone in that category. Because its safe to say that is not the case for the entire world.

I sorry but it seems to me that what you are doing is lumping them all together, to make all Arabs look evil.

Islam is a mass religion that preaches hate against the west, and hate against isreal in particular.

They hate Israel because they want a free Palestine, and the West because A) the US defends Israel and B) the US has launched attacks on Arab territories.

Its sick that these ppl want to wipe isreal off of the map.

They don’t, only a small minority want to wipe out Israel, most just want a free Palistien.

And they carry out attacks against isreal on a day to day basis because of their ideology, their religion. And its safe to say not all muslims are like this. But it seems that enough are sticking with this ideology of hate and the "ring leaders" who let their actions speak for all of islam. Its all we see.

And all they see is bombs with Lockheed-Martin written on the side.

The thing is, horrible events such as slavery, the KKK, and Hitler were all brought to their knees by the west. We decided we werent going to let them be the tail that wagged the dog. We dealt with the skeletons in our closet, now its islams turn

Ok lets get something strait about Hitler, we didn’t go to war to stop the holocaust, we went their because 1) Germany attacked Poland in Sept 1 1939. A few countries declared war, No one really cared. 2) Germany attacked France, now Britton cared. 3) Japan attacked Pearl Harbor; the US declares war on all axis powers. 4) We only went after Germany first because we thought that we would need Britons help with launching a full out invasion on Japan. Not to help the Jews, Gypsies any one ells that the Germans were slaughtering in their campaign of hate.

Originally posted by semperfoo
killing goes against the 10 commandments. Stoning a person to death would be killing a person. which is against one the 10 commandments. So I dont see the correlation.

Capital punishment is a penalty prescribed by Biblical law for the commission of offenses that violate ritual prohibitions (such as deliberate desecration of the Sabbath) as well as laws regarding interpersonal relationships (murder, kidnapping, incest). The Biblical text explicitly specifies two forms of execution: stoning (Exodus 17:4, 8:22; Numbers 14:10) and burning (Leviticus 20:14, 21:9)

www.jlaw.com...

Apparently not according to this Jewish legal web site.


[edit on 4-4-2007 by Mr Mxyztplk]

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk

Apparently not according to this Jewish legal web site.
[edit on 4-4-2007 by Mr Mxyztplk]

Old testiment or new?

www.allabouttruth.org...