UK Produces Fake MAP of Iran- Iraq Waterways

Originally posted by devilwasp
Yet again this has nothing to do with the DOD or thier policy on torture , the MOD does not commit torture nor does it have the facilities to do so. Prove they where in iranian waters, all you have linked is people "saying" that the map is not real, how about compiling some evidence?

I have already proven that the maps and border lines are Fake - but of course you shall belive the good old liars at the MoD, since you are basicly a member of their armed forces; which then does not surprise me at all. So far I did not come up with the idea, why do you even want to debate this with me, when you already know in advance we shall probably never agree on anything, anywhere...?

Taken from the above source therefore iran has enterered iraqi waters and therefore broken an agreement they signed (illegal) and technically broken a law they signed but have not ratified (UNCLOS)

Wanna talk about Illegal?

A Brief look at British violations of Iranian territory

1. British unmanned reconnaissance plane RPV violated Iranian airspace in northeastern Abadan in June 2004 and was hit by Iranian anti-aircraft guns. RPV debris is available.

2. At 11 O'clock local time on June 22, 2004, three British speed boats with eight navy personnel on board trespassed Iranian borders and were arrested by Iranian coast guards.

3. At 21:30 local time on November 1, 2006, two British Black awks (choppers) from Royal Navy hovered at the height of 150 meters at 47,700-17,400 coordinates on Khorramshahr map (Pole-No: new bridge) violating Iranian airspace and they entered Iraqi territory through 62,500-15,500 coordinates after 10 minutes.

4. On January 27, 2007 a British helicopter flew over mouth of Arvandrud (Arvand river) and violated Iran's airspace and they left the area after a warning from Iranian coast guards.

5. Three British Navy boats entered Khor Mousa mouth in Iranian territorial waters on February 28, 2007.

The sixth was trespass of two British Navy boats with 15 marines on board into Iranian territorial waters at Arvandrud which led to their arrest by Iranian coast guards.

And probably many other times, when they were not detected. But of course that does not sound important to you, right? I wonder how you would feel with Iranian helicopters driving above your head.

The wording and way the message is written is clearly faked.

Sure.

Fake as the map provided by the MoD.

Yet again how does affect britain or even invole us? In no way at all , thats how. Take your US problems somewhere else.

If you did not notice, U.S. and U.K. are Allies - which means that certain situatons in this alleged War on Terror shall impact as well one and the other side. And I see you are vey nervous when I mention U.S. "problems" - you do not like your biggest and best Ally?

Souljah,

If the map published in the UK is a "fake" (as it has been perhaps rather provocatively termed), does that mean that the map provided by the Iranians for the purposes of the televised appearance of the British captives which also has a large red line drawn on it is also a "fake"?

Or do the Iranians have some greater insight into the actual location of the boundry?

Originally posted by timeless test
Souljah,

If the map published in the UK is a "fake" (as it has been perhaps rather provocatively termed), does that mean that the map provided by the Iranians for the purposes of the televised appearance of the British captives which also has a large red line drawn on it is also a "fake"?

Or do the Iranians have some greater insight into the actual location of the boundry?

Please Read;

British Manufactured Gulf Maritime Border Map

As the Moon of Alabama blog points out, "That boundary is simply not well defined and Iran and Iraq have fought several wars about the Shatt al-Arab and its waterways. There is no binding or otherwise recognized international agreement about the maritime boundaries."

"If one would use a maritime boundary defined by equidistance from the Iraqi and Iranian coastlines, as is commonly (see Art.7) done in such cases, the result would be something like this purple line."


As becomes obvious from looking at the map, taking the equidistant measurement from the Iraqi and Iranian coastlines, the ship is clearly within Iranian territory.

So Souljah, do I take it from your reply that you agree that the Iranian map is also a "fake" then?

Originally posted by Souljah
I have already proven that the maps and border lines are Fake - but of course you shall belive the good old liars at the MoD, since you are basicly a member of their armed forces; which then does not surprise me at all. So far I did not come up with the idea, why do you even want to debate this with me, when you already know in advance we shall probably never agree on anything, anywhere...?

But I'm not believeing the MOD , I'm believing the university of duhram.
And no I'm not part of the MOD, I'm part of those evil corporations.

1. British unmanned reconnaissance plane RPV violated Iranian airspace in northeastern Abadan in June 2004 and was hit by Iranian anti-aircraft guns. RPV debris is available.

How do you know its british? We only one UAV unit in the entire british armed forces and I dont they would waste thier time using a UAV when an american satalite will do it cheaper and more effictively.

2. At 11 O'clock local time on June 22, 2004, three British speed boats with eight navy personnel on board trespassed Iranian borders and were arrested by Iranian coast guards.

Yes and remind me, didnt we apologise for this offence? Yes we did....

3. At 21:30 local time on November 1, 2006, two British Black awks (choppers) from Royal Navy hovered at the height of 150 meters at 47,700-17,400 coordinates on Khorramshahr map (Pole-No: new bridge) violating Iranian airspace and they entered Iraqi territory through 62,500-15,500 coordinates after 10 minutes.

Doubt it, the black hawk helicopter is not in service in the Ministery of Defence. However it IS in service with a large number of the worlds armed forces and several PMC's.

4. On January 27, 2007 a British helicopter flew over mouth of Arvandrud (Arvand river) and violated Iran's airspace and they left the area after a warning from Iranian coast guards.

What you mean the same bloody river that the 1975 territory defines?
Come on souljah, dont try this AGAIN. They were asked to leave (probably from iraqi waters) and done so to stop any trouble.

5. Three British Navy boats entered Khor Mousa mouth in Iranian territorial waters on February 28, 2007.

The sixth was trespass of two British Navy boats with 15 marines on board into Iranian territorial waters at Arvandrud which led to their arrest by Iranian coast guards.

I suspect these both were both done inside iraqi waters and iran is setting its own borders (again).

And probably many other times, when they were not detected. But of course that does not sound important to you, right? I wonder how you would feel with Iranian helicopters driving above your head.

Do you live IN a river? I dont so I doubt iranian helicopters would fly over my head.
Those words "Assume" and "probably" dont hold much wieght in international law. They do concern me since iran obviosly doesnt respect thier own treaties.

Sure.

Fake as the map provided by the MoD.

Lol how is it fake? I do love works of fiction.

If you did not notice, U.S. and U.K. are Allies - which means that certain situatons in this alleged War on Terror shall impact as well one and the other side. And I see you are vey nervous when I mention U.S. "problems" - you do not like your biggest and best Ally?

I do not like many polices done by our ally but we are still blood cousins so frankly we're stuck with each other.
Yes we are allies but that doesnt mean you hold us responsible for thier actions, there big boys and girls now, they can speak for themselves.

Unfortunatly for you souljah Mr ambassador didnt take into acount the continetal shelf (ie the mud underneath the water) which extends right up to the point where the ship was so technically the iranians arrested a 15 personel IN iraqi terriroty. Both land and sea.

Yes, I read that too Devilwasp.

Rather bizarrely it appears that this is not actually a maitime boundary dispute at all as the shallows where the boats were is governed by a land boundry and they were technically on Iraqi soil rather than anybody's sea.

you're right devilwasp, it's only americans that lock people away in gitmo and torture people..

at least the americans aren't so slimey as to put the blame on another nation. the united kingdom hands people over to the americans to "torture" and "lock away in gitmo" all the time.

so don't bring your hatred of a brother nation of your own blood (whether your like it or not) into the thread either, lest i point it out when i become offended by your statements.

Interesting Article;

Boundary experts say Britain, Iran can agree deal

Because the maritime boundaries off the Shatt al-Arab waterway, drawn up in 1975 but not updated since, are open to a certain degree of interpretation, Britain and Iran could "agree to disagree" over exactly who crossed into whose territory.

"The fact that the coastline is constantly shifting means more issues would need to be taken into consideration than if the coastlines were more stable and there was agreement on exactly where the baselines along the coast were."

Fact is that this is not a stable and well agreed borderline.

And it could mean, that both sides are "Right" and "Wrong" at the same time.

But is the Ego of both governments going to allow them to admit that?

Originally posted by Souljah
Fact is that this is not a stable and well agreed borderline.

And it could mean, that both sides are "Right" and "Wrong" at the same time.

But is the Ego of both governments going to allow them to admit that?

For such a grey area Iran's actions were very definite... That's real issue here.

What provoked Iran to act so is the point of contention.

NeoN HaZe.

Originally posted by runetang
you're right devilwasp, it's only americans that lock people away in gitmo
at least the americans aren't so slimey as to put the blame on another nation. the united kingdom hands people over to the americans to "torture" and "lock away in gitmo" all the time.

They were sent there legally, acording to america they commited a crime and with out extradition treaties with they we are forced to do that. Unless you want us to pull out of interpol and cut all ties with our "brother nation" ?

so don't bring your hatred of a brother nation of your own blood (whether your like it or not) into the thread either, lest i point it out when i become offended by your statements.

Hatred? If you knew me you'd laugh at that statement, on the odd occasion I do stand up for the curretn adminstration . Americas a lovely country and its people are nice (on a whole, it the same with here) but its administration has made some questionable calls.