UK Produces Fake MAP of Iran- Iraq Waterways

I assumed this thread would already be on ATS, but I haven't seen it

Craig Murray provides a fascinating insight into the disputed waters that the British Governemnt faked in its news conference

Whats more Craig Murray also notes how the BBC used a maritime expert who was referred to them by the Ministry of Defence.

Shouldnt the BBC have told us?

Craig was a British ambassador to Uzbekistan and exposed human rights abuses there (to the displeasure of both the british and uzbek governments).

Craig shows that the British faked the boundary between Iran and Iraq for its map, and that no such boundary exists, Britain just made it up. The soldiers were closer t Iran than Iraq, so the Iranians have a claim that they were in their territorial waters

www.prisonplanet.com...

www.craigmurray.co.uk...

a brief look at british violations in Iran
www2.irna.ir...

Well, using those coordinates in Google Earth, it looks like they were in a position still more difficult (at least to me) to decide if they were in Iraq or in Iran.

Of course it should also be pointed out that the British have no right to be in either Iraqi or Iranian waters.

Originally posted by golddragnet
Of course it should also be pointed out that the British have no right to be in either Iraqi or Iranian waters.

Regarding the British having no rights to be in Iraqi waters...
Is this opinion or fact?

Great post!

Of course we will not hear this in the main stream news.

UK marines were "hijacked" and now they are "hostages".

Seen how they were treated good on TV? With cigarettes, eating food, shaved - I wonder if the same would happen with some Iranian soldiers, being captured by UK or US forces. I bet they would soon end up in some Gitmo somewhere, piled in a human pyramid with electrodes applied to their testicles.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
Regarding the British having no rights to be in Iraqi waters...
Is this opinion or fact?

It is Iraqi waters, nowhere near the coastline of Britain. The only reason Brits seem to claim they have a right to be there is because with the US they declared war on Iraq and dropped bombs on them. It was an illegal invasion.

Originally posted by golddragnet
It is Iraqi waters, nowhere near the coastline of Britain. The only reason Brits seem to claim they have a right to be there is because with the US they declared war on Iraq and dropped bombs on them. It was an illegal invasion.

There under a UN mandate to be there, therefore are legally allowed to rebuild the country. Also one thing Mr Craig has forgoten : Warships do not comply to UNCLOS. Also:

www.dur.ac.uk...

Mr Craig needs to sort himself out and take a look at the real picture, we were there legally and the map was real.

Also those "incursions" into iranian aispace by royal navy "black hawks", the royal navy does not operate the "black hawk" helicopter nor owns any.

Originally posted by Souljah
Seen how they were treated good on TV? With cigarettes, eating food, shaved - I wonder if the same would happen with some Iranian soldiers, being captured by UK or US forces. I bet they would soon end up in some Gitmo somewhere, piled in a human pyramid with electrodes applied to their testicles.

A) This is UK and iranian thread dont bring your US issues to us ok?
B) Uk forces do NOT torture people, we are governed by the UN and the EU human rights laws.
C) We dont send people to gitmo, the americans do that.
D) Also I doubt they are being treated very nicely since they are being held against their will, unless you of all people are claiming double standards and saying that this arrest was "legal"?

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

If the map was fake, I'm quite sure the Iranians would have screamed about it long before now instead of altering their GPS coordinates. So what's the Iranian motive behind not disputing the map if it's incorrect? None spring to mind.

Originally posted by Ste2652
If the map was fake, I'm quite sure the Iranians would have screamed about it long before now instead of altering their GPS coordinates. So what's the Iranian motive behind not disputing the map if it's incorrect? None spring to mind.

Why should they acknowledge the map in the first place?

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
Why should they acknowledge the map in the first place?

They already have by changing their GPS coordinates, have they not?

The Iranians still haven't explained why they changed the coordinates which they previously gave to the British, unless they made a mistake.

Originally posted by deltaboy
The Iranians still haven't explained why they changed the coordinates which they previously gave to the British, unless they made a mistake.

Do you have a source for this, and not just because the Brits say so....

Originally posted by Malichai
Do you have a source for this, and not just because the Brits say so....

Do you have a source for doubting it's veracity? Have the Iranians denied that they have issued two contradictory sets of coordinates, one of which was in Iraqi waters?

I think that this thread is exactly what ATS is all about..
DENY IGNORANCE!!

I've never heard or seen anything more pertinent to that than the content of this thread.

The UK forces had EVERY LEGAL right to be in Iraqi waters as they were carrying out a UN resolution.

Iran had NO LEGAL RIGHT to enter into Iraqi waters and Cease 15 British service people.

Further more... I might add that anyone who disputes the territorial lines should note that EVEN if our men had entered Iranian waters the correct course of action would have been to escort them back out of Iranian waters.

At that point Iran could have made a formal protest to the British embassy and the UN.

But of course we all know that could not have happened since the captured team were indeed in Iraqi waters...

I might further add that the Indian Merchant vessel that was anchored firmly in Iraqi waters was empty.... perhaps it was awaiting Iranian munitions to be delivered so it could carry them to Iraq???

Of course there are Muslims the world over who will be unhappy and start threads like this one. But the truth is the Actions of the Iranian Government are inexcusable and will not go unpunished.

Does Iran really think the UK and US are weak?? perhaps the Iranians might do best to consider who was the dominant force in WW1? WW2? Korea?? The Falklands??? Iraq???

Best advice to all of the Iranians who may be reading this.... the UK and the US are NOT your Enemy.... but if you keep up this stupidity you will force our hands!!!

All the best people,

NeoN HaZe.

[edit on 1-4-2007 by Neon Haze]

Originally posted by Malichai

Originally posted by deltaboy
The Iranians still haven't explained why they changed the coordinates which they previously gave to the British, unless they made a mistake.

Do you have a source for this, and not just because the Brits say so....

Here you go sir.
www.cnn.com...

there are many others if you google "Iran changes coordinates"

[edit on 1-4-2007 by Bugman82]

[edit on 1-4-2007 by Bugman82]

Originally posted by Souljah

UK marines were "hijacked" and now they are "hostages".

Wow. Finally a fact! I never knew you had it in you.

Seen how they were treated good on TV? With cigarettes, eating food, shaved

Wow. You believe everything you see on TV? Have you ever heard of propoganda? Oh, by the way, since youre so strung up on "justice" and international law, displaying the UK soldiers on TV and parading them around before the public are very blatant violations of such guidelines.

That, and forcing soldiers to write false statements and further political agendas, like the bogus "confessions" that they wrung out of these sailors, most likely at gun point off camera.

I wonder if the same would happen with some Iranian soldiers, being captured by UK or US forces. I bet they would soon end up in some Gitmo somewhere, piled in a human pyramid with electrodes applied to their testicles.

Maybe. But they wouldn't be paraded on national TV and made to give false statements either.

Originally posted by Neon Haze
Does Iran really think the UK and US are weak?? perhaps the Iranians might do best to consider who was the dominant force in WW1? WW2? Korea?? The Falklands??? Iraq???

Best advice to all of the Iranians who may be reading this.... the UK and the US are NOT your Enemy
[edit on 1-4-2007 by Neon Haze]

One of the worst posts I have ever read on ATS. I won't bother responding to all of it, as you have preconceived notions already.

And you have absolutely no idea what that indian vessel was for, so why even speculate that it was to carry weapons, have you some kind of evidence to support that theory?

The most ridiculous part of the post is to say US is not Iran's enemy. Presumably you have some kind of basic knowledge of the history of US involvement in Iran.
In 1953, the CIA toppled the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh of Iran after he had defiantly threatened to nationalize British oil. He was summarily replaced with a dictator whose secret police is said to have rivaled the brutality of the Nazi Gestapo
USA supported Iraq in the Iraq-Iran war, and now GW Bush labeled Iran part of the axis of evil after 9/11, even though Iran wasn't involved in 9/11, and after USA/UK destroyed Iraq GW Bush then threatened to nuke Iran a few months ago.
You seem very quick to believe the british side of the hostages situation. Were you equally quick to believe the Saddam has WMD's lies the British and Americans sold the world?

[edit on 1-4-2007 by golddragnet]

Originally posted by golddragnet
One of the worst posts I have ever read on ATS. I won't bother responding to all of it, as you have preconceived notions already.

preconceived as in looking at the truth and saying yep thats the truth?? or maybe you think I should have an open mind and say maybe the iranians are just in thier cause and thier actions??

Come on!! When will you people realise that no matter what words you use, what is happening is wrong and it's the Iranians that are the aggressor here not the UK... The Iranians are the ones that are Picking a fight.

And you have absolutely no idea what that Indian vessel was for, so why even speculate that it was to carry weapons, have you some kind of evidence to support that theory?

We have strong evidence of Iranian munitions finding their way into the hands of Iraqi madmen yes!! How did they get there I wonder??? Hmmm???

Then we have an empty Indian cargo vessel anchored 1.7 nautical miles from the Iranian border.... I wonder what it's purpose could have been???

Then there is the reaction of the Iranians that captured the nearly unarmed boarding party.... Why would they react so strongly if there were no real threat???

The 15 that were captured had side arms for Christ sake... they were obviously not a crack espionage unit...

So why this reaction from Iran??

If Iran was correct why didn't they just escort these people out of Iranian waters???

The most ridiculous part of the post is to say US is not Iran's enemy. Presumably you have some kind of basic knowledge of the history of US involvement in Iran.

Excuse me it was British people Iran Captured NOT US.... But since we are the strongest of allies and what happens to one happens to the other Iran now faces both of us...

USA supported Iraq in the Iraq-Iran war, and now GW Bush labeled Iran part of the axis of evil after 9/11, even though Iran wasn't involved in 9/11, and after USA/UK destroyed Iraq GW Bush then threatened to nuke Iran a few months ago

Why do you think would that be??? Oil is certainly apart of it but not the main reason of hostilities...

Don't you think if Iran had chosen to trade freely and be friendly open and honest Iran's history would have been different??

The fact that we have strong evidence to suggest that Iran is behind the support of hard line Muslim causes... the fact that Iran has pledged to destroy Israel... the fact that Iran ignores UN resolutions... and the fact that Iran now seeks to develop Nuclear weapons...

You seem very quick to believe the British side of the hostages situation. Were you equally quick to believe the Saddam has WMD's lies the British and Americans sold the world?

First and foremost I am English and live in London so when I heard about this I was most angry and knew that this would lead to war.

secondly I know full well that the war in Iraq and Afghanistan were partly brought about by oil and gas ambitions.

However... I totally and fully support what happened in Iraq and I will totally and fully support what we do in Iran... The main difference here is it’s Iran that is starting this not the UK.

Iran could still avert all this by giving up the captives and starting a fresh with openness and discussion... But I think that would be like asking a Muslim to eat pork....

The truth I fear is this war we are in won't stop until ALL the hard line Muslims are gone.

If you are supporting the Iranian actions then I conceder you are part of the problem...

All the best people,

NeoN HaZe.

[edit on 1-4-2007 by Neon Haze]

Where is the official source for determining maritime borders?

Originally posted by Neon Haze
Don't you think if Iran had chosen to trade freely and be friendly open and honest Iran's history would have been different??
[edit on 1-4-2007 by Neon Haze]

You have confirmed that you know almost nothing of USA's history of involvement in Iran, or of Iranian history at all. Try studying it before making uninformed posts. I am not going to detail it all here, but to give a very brief summary, USA removed the democratically elected leader of Iran (how would you feel about another country removing your democratically elected leader?), they put in their puppet, the people of Iran were surpressed, USA kept supporting the leader of Iran who replaced the democratically elected guy, they trained the police force to terrorise the Iranian people, understandbly the people of Iran revolted, then USA supports Iraq in a war against Iran because they weren't happy at Irans new independance. Your post was nonsense