Why Will The US Attack Iran?

There are many, many threads on Iran it seems, various claims as to how we will attack.. why we will attack.. WHEN we will attack..

I created this thread off of a discussion on another thread that has since died, but it is my opinion as to WHY we not only WILL but HAVE to in order for Bush to salvage the entire fiasco in the Middle East.. he will have to go to war with Iran..

By taking out Iraq, the regional power holder in the region, we created this nasty void.. this void HAS to be filled.. it cannot be vacant.. its literally impossible. The United States had hoped that American presents would create enough hostile fear to suppress anyone attempting to stand up.. and it worked, for about 2 years.. we had already seen Iran taking bolder moves.. we publicly lambasted them .. "axis of evil" .. we knew they had the ability.. thats why we tried to influence their elections.. the hard line ended up winning.. the Iranian nationalist (not radical islam..) instead of the more western leaning "liberalistic" government we tried to help.

So Iraq did not form like we thought.. in stead it melted away before our very eyes.. no doubt Iran influenced that.. it is their region, we simply took to damn long getting the job done! .. Because America took to long to destroy the government, find Saddam and form a government, Iran built up confidence to begin terrorism, in the hopes of starting a civil war.. Iranian Revolutionary Guards (Not typically associated with the government, they operate on their own terms... like the PKK and the Kurdish Assembly if you will) are the number one killer of American troops..

The chaos that ensued worked like a charm.. the mosque was annihilated and civil war ensued.

Now, there is not only a power void still not filled because America made it vacant by first destroying Iraq, then F'ing them selves royally by not 1. listening to the generals on the ground and 2. allowing Rummy to do it his way, which is quite simply, the dumb way. Not enough troops, not enough material, not enough propaganda (yeah its useful) not enough equipment, not enough money, not enough direction on how to spend the money, pathetic over sights, pathetic war plans, and NO END GOAL! Whats their plan??

Il tell you their plan..

It WAS to destroy Iraq and build a government. They failed. So we are still there... people ask when will we pull out? .. when mission is accomplished which it isnt. Or any where close.. in fact we struggle to hold Kurdistan from leaving the fools in the south, we cannot control the boarders (cant control our own, what makes us think we can control another counties..) we cannot spot and destroy IRG forces, we cannot SOLVE the PROBLEMS because the problems lie within Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia...... because we stood stationary TO LONG.

So.. Iran filled the void.. because America happens to be so knee deep in their own sh!% that we honestly cannot occupy another country right now..

So, Iran will strut its stuff, it will continue developing "nuclear weapons" and capturing sailors because we can't do a damn thing about it! .. America can kick Iran's !%@ but there is no support to do it.. imagine.. just imagine the all out hell that would break loose in the streets of America when we wake up one morning and see our air force bombing Iran back 75 years?

Iran does not WANT compromise. It does not NEED compromise.. we COMPROMISED our own situation! ..

So it is not about "nukes" .. or about "terrist" (I meant that spelling )

Its not about "oil"

Its not about "liberating" (please.... we support the civil war in Congo because its um.... "democratic" .. 2.5 million people dead. :barf

It sure as hell is not about "religion" .. Iran is one of the most (if not THEE most) westernized states in the ME .. aside from Turkey (not counting Israel, not being Islamic)

Its about.. power.. control.

We could not build Iraq so we lost our goal.. regional influence within the ME through a proxy government to install western "ideology" ie. EXPLOITATION So Iran filled the void... which brings us to... why pick a fight when we ARE knee deep in our own sh!@?

Well, because most of the attacks come from Iran.. and because Iran is now the regional super power.... destroy Iran... and join the two countries.. Sounds .. I don't know.. out there?

think about it.. opening the borders with WAR brings the fighters out (remember.. these guys can't plan a war to save their lives - Bush) and we will, hypothetically destroy the IRG ending the #1 killer of our troops (trained army - mostly snipers in Iraq) and join the two countries into a REAL regional super power that is pro-American.. going on the basis that both are majority Shia (sorry Kurds, F'd again eh? .. figures..)

I honestly think that is their plan.. they failed the first time, why not try again and form a super state! .. one state already doesn't have a government (able) and the second will be easy to destroy.. the only hard part will of course be gaining peace..

The whole plan would fail. Miserably actually..

But that is what I see as there (Bush) plan.. And I believe I am right, through studying extensively the Middle East and the actions war related and politically motivated by this ... government.

In short... we cannot fail.. because if we do, we have NO regional influence over one of the most important regions in the world.. and because plan 1 went down the shi!@er we need a plan B.. take out regional contender #2 and start plan A all over again..

What say you?

Intersting...

What say I....

Well for starters - Iran is on the edge, many in that country can not stand the Government. The old guard (westernized) have mostly been killed or are still in prison.

But here is something that is not spoken of very much, there are MANY pro-American Iranians in Iran and that is not counting the ones in the States.

So what to do? Join the two countries? Not a chance. Repartition along ethnic lines? That's more like it. Kurdistan will finally have their own country and SCREW Turkey. They made their bed in 2003. Thing is, Turkey is the ONE country in that part of the world that has the MOST to fear from an Islamic Iran.

I say lets just fix what the British Mandate screwed up, Lets take Syria and Iran and lets mold them. Sure, bomb the # out of them, but then reorganize them.

Here is what I see:

Iraq - split three ways
(a) The Sh'it'e areas - to a NEW Persia
(b) The Sunni - to Syria
(c) The Kurds - Welcome to the new Kurdistan

Now how to make this work? Well Iran can be militarily rendered moot very easily and quickly along with Syria. Then some organizational things need to be done. Thing is, I would hope not many troops would be needed but that is not a given. AIR POWER. Sure many civilian deaths, but I would think that in the long run there would be many less than keeping things as they are.

A new Syria/Persia would contain each other along sectarian lines.


Just thinking, if we don't do something, then the Chinese will be happy to even though they just found 2 billion barrels in their own backyard.

[edit on 31-3-2007 by edsinger]

[edit on 31-3-2007 by edsinger]

Naw. Let's just withdraw from Iraq, leave Iran to their own business, and when the entire region is a region of glowing sand and glass craters. We can sit back and say we told you so.

Or not...

That's not a bad notion. Take out Iran, combine the two into a single political entity, which would scare Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all the other ME nations to death. Assuming, of course, that the Arabs and Persians would even be able to get along, not to mention the Shia and Sunni's. I'm thinking the tribal and religious divisions would prohibit this plan, but who knows.

Most people don't understand why we are going to war with Iran. Let Me Help You Understand!

Its not because of Weapons of Mass Destruction!
Its not because of Israel!
Its not because we want to spread Democracy!
Its not because we want to rule to world!
Its not because we are Christian and they are Islamic!
Its not because they captured UK sailors!
Its not because of Oil! USA doesn't get oil from Iran...China Does!

The REAL Reason for the War with Iran is the same reason that we went to war with IRAQ!

To Save The American Dollar!!! About 2 months ago Iran starting selling their Oil in Euros and other currencies. A few months before the Iraq attack they started selling their oil in Euros, and the first thing we did after invading was changing it back to US Dollars.

If the Nations of the World have an alternitive to the US Dollar then they won't be forced to hold US Dollar Reserves...which means they won't be forced to purchase our Treasury Debt...which will lead to Serious Liquidity Problems for the American Govt, and it would also lead to Hyper Inflation here at home as they sell their dollars for other currencies, all our those dollars will be sent back to america.

Recently China made a Huge Deal To Aquire Oil from Venezuala, the reason for this is because they know Americas plan to invade, and they have approved it, afterall they hold the largest amount of American Dollars...and anything that would hurt the dollar would also hurt China by decreasing the value of the American Debt that they own.

I know what you asking yourselves... If Both the Iraq War and the Iran War is to protect the Value of the US Dollar, then why doesn't the Govt just say thats the reason...the answer is that FEAR is a much greater motivater, and Vanity wouldn't gather the support from the Devout Christian crowd.

Does This Make Any Sense To You? Do You Understand Now?

War With Iran Is Innevitable...

Do I support the war? No, however the alternative is a stock market crash followed by hyper inflation and then a decade or longer economic depression which will only end when our govt put us back on the gold standard or absorbs the economies of Canada and Mexico into the American Union... but thats better than killing innocent people...IMO

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
If the Nations of the World have an alternitive to the US Dollar then they won't be forced to hold US Dollar Reserves...which means they won't be forced to purchase our Treasury Debt...which will lead to Serious Liquidity Problems for the American Govt, and it would also lead to Hyper Inflation here at home as they sell their dollars for other currencies, all our those dollars will be sent back to america.

Recently China made a Huge Deal To Aquire Oil from Venezuala, the reason for this is because they know Americas plan to invade, and they have approved it, afterall they hold the largest amount of American Dollars...and anything that would hurt the dollar would also hurt China by decreasing the value of the American Debt that they own.

Oh really?




Go here for the Large picture
LINK



The Chinese do not seem to be the issue nor does the dollar.






[edit on 31-3-2007 by edsinger]

Edsinger.. the first huge problem with your debate is that Iranian, while the majority really do support America and western ideology.. would rather have a dictator tell them how to act then a foreign state come in and declare how to act.

We will never have the support of the general public, Iraq was more likely to conform and they did NOT.. because we are a foreign nation.

As far as Kurdistan, as much as I would LOVE to see a Kurdistan take form... it cannot happen, we can "screw" turkey all we want, they will not have it.. and their armed forces is far more stable then Iran's.

As far as petrol dollar, your right on brother.. because Iran is turning to the Euro they undoubtedly secured their own grave..

As for the pie chart, how can the citizens of the their own country own their own debt, like wise how can the government own its own debt? .. likewise how can a bank loan its self money and declare its self in debt? Makes no sense to me.. please explain..

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Edsinger.. the first huge problem with your debate is that Iranian, while the majority really do support America and western ideology.. would rather have a dictator tell them how to act then a foreign state come in and declare how to act.

We don't need to go in, just push a little and Iran will implode. No Invasion necessary

Originally posted by Rockpuck
We will never have the support of the general public, Iraq was more likely to conform and they did NOT.. because we are a foreign nation.

We did at first, but many other issues came into play, including Iran and Syria.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
As far as Kurdistan, as much as I would LOVE to see a Kurdistan take form... it cannot happen, we can "screw" turkey all we want, they will not have it.. and their armed forces is far more stable then Iran's.

So just what will Turkey do about it? Yeah they are big but they can not stop it unless they attack US forces and that is not likely.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
As far as petrol dollar, your right on brother.. because Iran is turning to the Euro they undoubtedly secured their own grave..

Let them have the Euro, see I am one that likes the Euro to gain. It makes the dollar cheaper and therefore exports grow and Europe stagnates. Remember, there are more foreign currency reserves in the dollar than anything else but that is changing....

Originally posted by Rockpuck
As for the pie chart, how can the citizens of the their own country own their own debt, like wise how can the government own its own debt? .. likewise how can a bank loan its self money and declare its self in debt?

Makes no sense to me.. please explain..

Did you read it? What it means is that the Public owns the bonds, the Fed owns some for financial reasons. The foreign portion is only ~25%. Look through that sight more and you'll learn stuff that is eye-opening.

Really Good Economics site - non doom and gloom

Edsinger i am very dissapointed in you. I have seen you around this website for years and i have always had a great deal of respect for you, but at this point, i think you may be too wrapped up in false information for you to make sound judgements.

First of all, your chart is from ... "the skeptical optimist" I wonder if even searched for a more trusted source, or just used the one that best suited your argument?

Secondly, I didn't mention the National Debt that China Owns ... I said they have the largest amount of dollars (and by that i meant of foreign nations...but that was my mistake). China Has Over $800,000,000,000
Thats 800 Billion US Dollars in their Foreign Currency Reserve...your chart only shows 300 billion in debt that they are owed...so the total aggregate amount of US Dollars they have claim to is OVER A TRILLION!

Heres a Link from "The Washington Post"
www.washingtonpost.com...


Other Topics...

As Far As Breaking Iraq into seperate parts... It may be the best solution at this point because these rival ethnic groups have proven that they can't get along, and in a democracy that simply wouldn't work.

As far as Kurdistan goes... Turkey is not to be messed with, but they want things, specifically to be able to join the E.U. So there is that bargaining chip to play if they simply don't cowtow to our wishes. And its not outside the realm of plausibility for Turkey to join the "European Union" Afterall the land of Turkey was once a part of the Roman Empire.

Thats all for now!

Originally posted by Rockpuck

how can the citizens of the their own country own their own debt, like wise how can the government own its own debt? .. likewise how can a bank loan its self money and declare its self in debt?

Makes no sense to me.. please explain..

It would take a course in advanced economics to explain all of that. As I have taken those courses and have held a series 7 securities license and worked for a wall street firm, I will do my best to explain.

US Govt Debt is purchased through what are called "Treasury Bonds, Notes, And Bills" There are differences between each of these, but the most notable is the the duration in which the debt matures. T-Notes and T-Bills are purchased in a "Dutch Auction" and is open to everyone including foreign nations, homegrown investors, banks and institutions. And these Short Term Debt Securities make up a larger family of Securities called "The Money Market". The Foreign Nations Are "FORCED" to purchase this debt because they need US Dollars in order to buy/sell goods
most notably ... OIL! Where in the past the US Dollar was the ONLY Currency used to purchase oil, these countries had no choice but to buy American Debts... THOSE DAYS ARE OVER!

About ... The Fed, owning US Debt.... thats a very interesting question! The Fed does a lot of things that if the general public knew about they would be run out of our country like the snakes in Ireland. They purchase their own Debt when there is little interest from outside parties to create the illusion that there are people buying it, they then sell it when it is most profitable for them. They Also BUY Stocks (Dow Components) in the open Market when they expect a semi crash (-500pts), to artificially keep the prices high...this is called The Plunge Protection Team!

The Plunge Protection Team!

but it is my opinion as to WHY we not only WILL but HAVE to in order for Bush to salvage the entire fiasco in the Middle East.. he will have to go to war with Iran

You are entitled to your own opinion, however if you think war with Iran will SALVAGE the situation in the M.E your dreaming. War with Iran will throw the entire region into chaos. Idon't think there is any doubt about that.

Iranian Revolutionary Guards (Not typically associated with the government, they operate on their own terms... like the PKK and the Kurdish Assembly if you will) are the number one killer of American troops..

A bold statement. Prove it..

Well, because most of the attacks come from Iran.. and because Iran is now the regional super power.... destroy Iran... and join the two countries.. Sounds .. I don't know.. out there?

You bet that's out there. For a start, Iranians' are Persians that speak Farsi, a completely different ethnicity to Iraqi Arabs who speak Arabic. Secondly the two countries were at war for 8 years or so resulting in millions of deaths. Join the two countries? It would be like trying to join India and Pakistan. No chance whatsoever.

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006Edsinger i am very dissapointed in you. I have seen you around this website for years and i have always had a great deal of respect for you, but at this point, i think you may be too wrapped up in false information for you to make sound judgements.

I am sorry to hear that I guess. Well I use sources that I like and the SO is one of them. He makes sense.

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006First of all, your chart is from ... "the skeptical optimist" I wonder if even searched for a more trusted source, or just used the one that best suited your argument?

Have you followed him for a while? I like the way he thinks. he is not your standard economist. he puts things in a fashion that I think is reasonable and likely. You do not have to agree, but at least read what he says about this killer debt that we have. It reality we have been in worse shape many times before throughout US history in the big picture.

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006Secondly, I didn't mention the National Debt that China Owns ... I said they have the largest amount of dollars (and by that i meant of foreign nations...but that was my mistake). China Has Over $800,000,000,000 Thats 800 Billion US Dollars in their Foreign Currency Reserve...your chart only shows 300 billion in debt that they are owed...so the total aggregate amount of US Dollars they have claim to is OVER A TRILLION!

Ah you are correct, China does have lots of dollars in cash reserves. That is true, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. It means they trust the greenback to some extent and that they could loose big time if it falls. The debt is the one that concerns me, as for reserves, the dollar is a product, they are the consumer.

Check this article out..

How Does The US Dollar Defy The Law Of Gravity?

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
If I haven't explained this to your satisfaction, or if you have any other questions concerning economics, I would happy to assist you to the best of my ability.

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
Where in the past the US Dollar was the ONLY Currency used to purchase oil, these countries had no choice but to buy American Debts... THOSE DAYS ARE OVER!

Would you care to go into the specifics of this? I am familiar with the concept of petrodollar warfare, and I think it would be interesting to hear what someone in the financial world thought about it. Thank you.

I personally thought that an attack either from the US, Britain or Israel was more or less a given, until Iran went and released all of the hostages they had taken.

I dont know what kind of move this was? If it was meant to satisfy their enemies, or be some sort of way to stave off an impending attack.

With the 3rd carrier being deployed to the gulf, it seems like the US has something in mind, or maybe they are going to try and orchestrate an attack which will act as a provocation for war.

The coming months will definitely be interesting.

Originally posted by Don Wahn

With the 3rd carrier being deployed to the gulf, it seems like the US has something in mind, or maybe they are going to try and orchestrate an attack which will act as a provocation for war.

The coming months will definitely be interesting.

SO why must the US 'provoke' anything? Iran is in defiance of the UN. They are laughing at the UN, it has not teeth. So when have we seen this before? Recently? Ah....now I see....

Yes interesting indeed.

Why would the US want this power and control? Oil.

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006

The REAL Reason for the War with Iran is the same reason that we went to war with IRAQ!
To Save The American Dollar!!!

Where2Hide2006 - respect!

You are the first person that I know of in this country who said that (which proves that I don't have an interesting social life circle)

Can you please elborate on a fact how getting into war saves US from bankrupcy? Is there anything aside from converting oil transactions from USD to EUR? I feel like oil prices being tied to USD along is not enough to save US economy.

What do you say? Anyone else?

I wouldn't stress the war with Iraq saved the US dollar, and would more on par say it preserved the US dollar. Vietnam was fun and games, but the strategy has to be oil, money and power. Money and power are fine if you've got them, but tanks jets and bombs need oil.

EDIT: and to mention why the US won't attack IRan: France and Russia may have something to say. Maybe just Russia. Maybe they will slip in the backdoor and become the #1 exporter.

[edit on 10-4-2007 by etotheitheta]

Originally posted by etotheitheta
I wouldn't stress the war with Iraq saved the US dollar, and would more on par say it preserved the US dollar. Vietnam was fun and games, but the strategy has to be oil, money and power. Money and power are fine if you've got them, but tanks jets and bombs need oil.

EDIT: and to mention why the US won't attack IRan: France and Russia may have something to say. Maybe just Russia. Maybe they will slip in the backdoor and become the #1 exporter.

[edit on 10-4-2007 by etotheitheta]

Well, when there are countries out there who mean to cripple your economy by means of dropping your currency, is that not a hostile action. I know it seems to be a war over money and oil, but arent those our countries very lifelines? If this is indeed the reason we would go to war with Iran, then I couldnt say I would be totally against it if it meant my country wouldnt be crippled. You dont think Iran uses its oil as leverage on the political stage, albeit successfully? Russia could care less if Iran falls, as you stated, becasue it could give them precident on the oil market to increase their role in the international market, increasing their revenues. Maybe thats why theyve been printing the stories about a US buildup and all that, to wag the dog, and provoke Iran in to a conflict it cant win. One less copetitor on the market. It would open up all of Europe for them.

I recall Russia's initial protest of the Iraq invasion by UK&US, I also recall Russia discussing with countries such as Venezuela that they should convert to the Euro. I do not think they would take too kindly to another invasion of an oil rich country, this one borders former Soviet territory.

The current state of affairs as I see it is this - Iraq war was never about oil, it was about gaining a strategic position within the middle on a larger scale than ever before, the US needed the "space" to be able to buildup their armed forces in the area for bigger things to come.

a side effect of this is the splitting up of Iraq into 3 states which will take effect soon, divide and conquer as they say and they will be weaker long term with squabbles amongst themselves for many years to come.

The US is hoping that they can garner opposition groups within Iran to help them destabilise the government prior to an attack on them, with the intention of splitting Iran along ethnic lines aswell.

The dollar, well it does partly play into this but all the things that you see going on in the middle east in the last few years are on prepatory work for Bush's?The Elite's greater plan. as bad as all this seems it is only the beginning.

Please can I forward you to a link where I go into great detail over 3 full posts on how this all fits together and where it is going-

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Alot of groundwork has been going on in the middle east, but nobody is even mentioning what has been going on in Europe the last 5 or so years in relation to this entire episode,

The curtain call is not even close yet for the main act is about to start!