Why are Masons e-vil?

I was just curious to hear from the anti-Masons what exactly makes Masons e-vil, yes, I said it, eeeeeviiiiil.

I'd like some specific information. Do you think they prance around half nude with furry leggings around a golden calf, or conduct human sacrifice, or prostrate themselves before a bronze casting of a goat-head?

I've heard the tired claim, "They are evil because they have secrets.".

I'd like to hear some other reason why you might think Masons are evil. Please be specific.

Now, I wouldn't say downright EVIL (yet), there are some things which are highly suspicious, the biggest one being the Propaganda Due scandal.

Propaganda Due scandal, Operation Gladio, look 'em both up on wikipedia.

Hell, maybe this is just a case of a rogue lodge! Maybe Martin Short (not the actor) is just making stuff up in his book! I've only read excerpts, not the whole book, so I dunno. Anyone on this thread read it?

Okay, thanks for giving some instances, but I'm clueless -- give us the run down on the incidents you described!

Reeaalllly long story.

Read this: en.wikipedia.org...
and then this: freemasonrywatch.org...

Short makes some pretty sensational allegations that I can't begin to believe until I see his sources. Not saying necessarily that he must be wrong, just that I'm going to play Doubting Thomas for the time being. I must see to believe!

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Propaganda Due scandal, Operation Gladio, look 'em both up on wikipedia.

I did, and I read the following:

Propaganda Due or P2 was an irregular or "black" Masonic lodge

Propaganda Due (aka P2), a quasi-freemasonic organization, whose existence was discovered in 1981, was closely linked to Gladio

In studying freemasonry, it is very important to appreciate that there are many groups who claim to be masonic when in fact they are nothing of the sort. One of the generally accepted litmus tests is whether or not the lodge/grand lodge is involved in politics, as this is completely forbidden in regular freemasonry.

A group such as P2 (and it is not alone in Italy) is so far removed from the principles and practices of regular freemasonry that it just isn't funny. Many people believe that just because a group says it is masonic then it must be, and this creates widespread confusion for interested non-masons trying to understand what freemasonry is all about.

To quote masonicinfo.com:

Persons of sense can easily recognize that Freemasonry cannot be held responsible for an organization which it banished yet which continued to function as a secret, pseudo-Masonic body within the context of Italian political intrigue. It is regrettable that the P. 2. incident stained Italian and - by extension - worldwide Freemasonry.

Hell, maybe this is just a case of a rogue lodge! Maybe Martin Short (not the actor) is just making stuff up in his book! I've only read excerpts, not the whole book, so I dunno. Anyone on this thread read it?

I've read the book, and listened to several interviews with Martin Short. He comes across as a man with an axe to grind IMO. As a freemason I thought it was quite ill-informed but he sold a lot of copies at a time when regular freemasonry had a policy of no-comment on such matters. In a vacuum, people tend to turn to the only information source available.

I'm a big fan of Martin Short the actor though

P2 was an irregular lodge, thus limited to one lodg. 5 million FreeMasons in America.. and one ittalian lodge goes rouge. There are many irregular lodges... they do not represent Masonry, hence being irregular.. thus not being a "conspiracy".. your second post was an obviously biased site whos soul intentions are to bring pathetic trumped up BS charges, shrewed allegations, unfounded truths to the ignorant fools who eat it up.

But I was like that once.. I remember, just last year actually.. came to this site, saw all the anti-mason threads, the streets of DC, the 9/11 connections, the dollar bill even.. monument every where, Denver international? ... Yeah, I bought it all..... untill I ACTUALLY researched it! .. And instead of sitting behind a screen reading other peoples pathetic works, I went out to a lodge my self to see for my self, and then a few months later I joined, I am now a master Mason.

There is no conspiracy. It is that simple. There are forces that work in secret, there are groups who seek power and wealth...

There has been through the ages..

Masonry is powerful, but no where near as "powerful" as you think, they are not a corporation, do not make money off the public and in no way interact with your every day life! ... Simple as that!

Here's (potentially, can't know until I take a look at the book, may not pan out as substantiated) the problem: Grand Orient of Italy knew what was going on with P2 and made a public show of throwing them out but kept them in good standing in secret. There was a mason who didn't think it was right and tried to blow the whistle but GOI threw him out too. UGLE went along with GOI's sham and didn't kick them out, when they should have. All lodges in amity with UGLE are guilty by association if all of this is true.

UGLE didn't sever amity with GOI, I mean.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Here's (potentially, can't know until I take a look at the book, may not pan out as substantiated) the problem: Grand Orient of Italy knew what was going on with P2 and made a public show of throwing them out but kept them in good standing in secret.

Yet that isn't the case. In fact, it was the Grand Orient who first alerted the authorities to P2's criminal activities in the late 1970's. The authorities ignored the matter, thinking it was simply a matter of two rival fraternities.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
UGLE didn't sever amity with GOI, I mean.

AFAIK UGLE wasn't in amity with GOI in the first place. The only recognized Grand Lodge in Italy is the Regular Grand Lodge of Italy. There has always been a history of mutual interference between freemasonry and politics in that particular country - I think it is the Italian way

Yet that isn't the case. In fact, it was the Grand Orient who first alerted the authorities to P2's criminal activities in the late 1970's. The authorities ignored the matter, thinking it was simply a matter of two rival fraternities.

Would you please source this claim?

Yeah, I'll admit I'm wrong...there's no reason to pin any blame to the FMs on the basis of this scandal-UGLE does not recognize GOI, their list of regular jurisdictions confirms it.

www.grandlodge-england.org...

U know whats evil about Masons? They don't let women in their lodges!

I mean, thats unfair. According to the anti-Masons, the Masons are running the drug trade, sacrificing babies, throwing orgies, and collaborating with aliens to cause the collapse of all things decent and take over the world.

Well, I want in on it too! Why should I be excluded from "Satan's Think Tank" as one incoherent ranting theorist called them, just because I have boobs? Im just as evil! In fact, Im more evil! I bet i can take over the world faster and sell more drugs and eat more babies than the masons could! With both hands tied behind my back! So there! take that sexist Mason scum!

Now, onto more serious discussion. the reasons people think masons are evil is because Mason's are relatively secretive about their rites and internal doings, and for good reason, when you consider the vitrol spewed at them by a bunch of ranting-raving religous lunatics who would love nothing better than to burn them at the stake. And of course, those who favor oppressive societies, like the Nazis and Communists, corrupt monarchs and theocracies, ect have always hated the masons because Masons worked in secret to overthrow them.

Probably from all the methyl mercury chloride in the bass at all their fish frys.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Well, I want in on it too! Why should I be excluded from "Satan's Think Tank" as one incoherent ranting theorist called them, just because I have boobs?

Fear not, O boobed one. Check out Satina's Think Tank, nice pictures too!

Damn it - I saw you say "boobs" and thought that link would be hot chicks but nooooooo!

There's nothing wrong with a Fraternity being men only and a sorority being girls only. Sometimes you need some space and time away from each other.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Yeah, I'll admit I'm wrong...there's no reason to pin any blame to the FMs on the basis of this scandal-UGLE does not recognize GOI, their list of regular jurisdictions confirms it.

www.grandlodge-england.org...

It takes a big man to do what you just did. Kudos to you!!!

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
U know whats evil about Masons? They don't let women in their lodges!

I mean, thats unfair. According to the anti-Masons, the Masons are running the drug trade, sacrificing babies, throwing orgies, and collaborating with aliens to cause the collapse of all things decent and take over the world.

Well, I want in on it too! Why should I be excluded from "Satan's Think Tank" as one incoherent ranting theorist called them, just because I have boobs? Im just as evil! In fact, Im more evil! I bet i can take over the world faster and sell more drugs and eat more babies than the masons could! With both hands tied behind my back! .

I think I'm in love.

You have voted Skadi_the_Evil_Elf for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Originally posted by uberarcanist


Would you please source this claim?

From "Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry?" by Arturo DeHoyos and Dr. S. Brent Morris:

Consider the case of the notorious "P2 Lodge" in Italy which was largely responsible for the collapse of the Italian government in 1981. Propaganda Lodge No. 2, Propaganda Due, or "P2" as it became known, began as a legitimately chartered lodge. Within the short space of a few years, however, its Master, Licio Gelli, abused his authority by using his Masonic influence to gain favors. Geli used illicit information to blackmail people into joining his lodge, the purpose of which was to gather more intelligence for his personal political agenda. Members of P2 then became involved in criminal activities.

As soon as the Grand Orient of Italy (the equivalent of an American grand lodge) became aware of a problem, its leaders tried to rectify the situation and, unfortunately, failed. Gelli would be controlled by no one. The Grand Orient then administered the ultimate Masonic punishment: revocation of the lodge's charter and expulsion of its members.

The former members of P2, however, ignored the judgment of the Grand Orient to whom they had pledged fealty and continued meeting under their old name. The "lodge" was now irregular or illegitimate, operating without authority. In 1975 a regular Mason, Francesco Siniscalchi, complained to the Public Prosecutor in Rome of P2's nefarious activities. When the scandal eventually broke, the press--and many non-Masons--did not understand the illegitimacy of P2, nor the fact that legitimate Masons tried to rectify the problem. This failure to differentiate between regular Masonry and the irregular P2 tarnished the good name of Masonry.

The book can be read online in its entirety
here.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Well, I want in on it too! Why should I be excluded from "Satan's Think Tank" as one incoherent ranting theorist called them, just because I have boobs?

Fear not, O boobed one. Check out Satina's Think Tank, nice pictures too!

But do these chicks also offer free beer and secret decoder rings?