Is it about time Britain showed some backbone? (Iran)

You know, this isn't really America's problem.

Hi Motex,

Did my tour the first war in Iraq, 2 August 1990. I spent 18 months in country. I did it so you could sit around in your robe and pipe and chide off against guys like me. Enjoy your freedom while it lasts. Keep cowering to these "nice people" and you'll trade in your comfy robe for a full length one. Comes with a nice little hat as well.

You bleeding hearts will never get it. They can not be reasoned with. Period. They kill each other daily because of minute differences in the Koran.

Sorry Motex you just haven't seen it first hand. I have. Period.

Becker

Be nice to think the US would help get them home, Works both ways

Britain should carry on down the route they are on, if all else fails or the hostages are threatend britain should turn up the heat.
To like 10,000 degrees in 3 seconds.

[edit on 29-3-2007 by SKUNK2]

Originally posted by Ste2652
The next step, if Iran doesn't play ball, would probably be to go before the UN. Present the evidence that the MoD released yesterday, demand that Iran release the hostages and their equipment, and then point out that:

1. Iran must apologise to the Iraqi government for illegally entering its waters and trespassing, and disrupting an operation which was designed to protect Iraq from smugglers.
   
2. Iran must apologise to the United Kingdom for kidnapping its personnel.
3. Iran must apologise to the personnel themselves for doing this to them.
   
4. Iran must apologise to the families and friends of the kidnapped personnel for the pain they have been put through.
   
5. Iran must apologise to the United Nations Security Council for disrupting an operation sanctioned by them under a UNSC Resolution.
   
6. Iran must apologise to the world for lying to them over the position of the incident, since their versions of what happened seem contradictory.
   

The Iranians have too much pride to do this, even tough from what I've read about the position of RN RHIB as being in Iraqi waters, hence they're in the wrong. Since both parties seem to believe the other is wrong, an appology from either side to anyone is probably not gonna happen.

well this is just sad for me.
back at iraq they took two bulgarian reporters for hostages and asked that we take all of our forces back.
they executed them...
so no holding back for those ...
terrorist will only learn with brute force not by holding back at the sign of some hostages as bas and brutal as it sounds

[edit on 29/3/07 by Unisol]

[edit on 29/3/07 by Unisol]

Look at it this way. Some people may admire Britain for holding back but I don't think that is the right answer. I would love to be a soldier in that army... If I get sent to some country and get captured I know their going to, well talk. Look at what Isreal did over two soldiers. That's a country to fight for. The only exeption would be if these were SF soldiers because they would be trained for this situation.

Edit to add this. If your not going to back up your soldiers then don't put them in harms way. Same for the US, don't send soldiers to battle and then cut funding. Sure, it may sound like a good plan for one side but you can't half (I guess do) a job. Your going to do it or your not going to do it. I don't care either way just don't half do a job.

Styki

[edit on 29-3-2007 by Styki]

yes i admire israel,they didnt hold back they made a massacre and if it wasnt for the peace(whos idea that was probably not israel^^)they would have cleared them from the face of the earth omg
and yea britan should not hold back

I guess if we are just going on assumptions of what Isreal wanted to do the let me make on. Isreal wasn't just going to let someone take their soldiers and they knew that if they attacked someone would make them stop at some point in time. Then they could look like a strong nation and let keep their enemys in line knowing that they could back off at a certain point. At least the next time somebody thinks about taking one of their soldiers they know what is going to happen.

Styki

Uhmmm... Israel didn't get their soldiers back.

They killed 1000 Lebanese civilians and got humiliated by Hezbollah, who were able to launch more rockets each day of the conflict. They lost 120 soldiers in addition to the (still missing) captured soldiers, made national heroes out of Hezbollah, and failed to get past the Litani even with a massive numerical and technological advantage...

So Israel's experience in Lebanon is a good model to follow???

Well, I guess if you're into failure

Me I'll take a nice quiet victory over a chest-thumping failure any day.

[edit on 3/29/07 by xmotex]

yes thats just admirable
we all know this tactic "show them ur tought and they wont touch you"
sad the whole world and people are like that...
show them ur a kinds person and theyll just get meaner and meaner...
now that israel showed they mean buisness i doubt someone will want to start war with them the following years
still israel was going to wipe the floor with them
even if they were some terorist countries supporting them, israel got usa/nato/euro/russia on theyr back supplying and helping
they were just going to destroy them all...

[edit on 29/3/07 by Unisol]

humiliated by hellzboah?no i dongt think so.
yea the rockets and all the terorist attempts are just the only thing they can do.theyr just terorist with ak's rpg's they dont have space technology have they?as i know israel maked theyr city in ruins and bombarded theyr whole county.even people that lived there on the news were saying it.
planes,bombardment,CHEMICAL WEAPONS!!! used on them...
they ruined and conquered like half of theyr country

I think everyone would love world peace, it just an't going to happen just yet. Untill then if I have a bigger gun than yours then everything is ok, because your not going to bother me and I don't really need to hurt you. That's just the way things are and that's they why it has to be for now.

If we as people could focus less on fighting each other and more on something productive to humanity I think we could all live a little longer. However, for now we have things we need to defend and we need to protect ourselves from those who may wish harm upon us in the future. Sure, our past may have been a been a little shady but when there is somebody out to get you the only option you have is to show a little force.

In the case we are talking about Iran feels threatened because there are a great deal of people who don't want them to have nuclear power. People feel threatened by Iran because they are trying to have nuclear power because that could lead to nuclear weapons. It's a case of two people having the same size guys and that is when the big wars happen.

Styki

so sad...so many wars couse of sellfishness

It's true, in wars you fight for your people but of course you have to be fighting against people.

This whole thing could be a set up, which some people have brought up, and in that case Iran isn't really doing anything to stop it. If it is then Iran get further away from getting nuclear power.

It could be that Iran is trying to call the bluff and they believe that they are going to get away with this one. This of course would make the British government look weak and show that the coalition dose not have the manpower to take on Iran at the moment. A small victory for the moment but they could use all of them that they are going to get.

For the British, if this gose to using military force they could risk losing 15 military personal. If they were going to use other means like some sort of deal to get their personal back the deal will most likely mean Iran will get nuclear powers sooner. It help Iran even more if they could prove that the sailors were in Iran's waters when they were taken.

I think the reason this is taking so long is because this was not something that was planned and it's kind of a touchy situation for the coalition. It's going to be a minor setback in plans for stopping Iran from getting nuclear power.

As for me, im all for stopping Iran from getting nuclear power because I believe that will lead to nuclear weapons which will also lead to that big war.

they ruined and conquered like half of theyr country

Which, in terms of their actual strategic objectives, was a dismal failure.

Their stated objectives were 1) get the soldiers back & 2) cripple Hezbollah (Hezbollah the guerilla army, not Lebanon the country).

They accomplished neither, all they accomplished was to make themselves look incompetent thugs in the eyes of the world, and to give Hezbollah greater political clout in Lebanon.

Anyway you spin it, they failed.
Which is why Olmert's government has something like a 3% approval rating right now.

[edit on 3/29/07 by xmotex]

well true....but hellzboah is like everywere they control the whole country still the people arent the bad guis,hellzboah is giving them food and all that stuff.
but since hellzboah is hiding all the time israel didnt have other choice then to attack theyr country

"Speak softly and carry a big stick." -- Theodore Roosevelt


Right now the UK is speaking softly but firmly and they along with the Iranians know they have a very big stick. They have forces and I have no doubt the US would lend any forces/ logistics/ equipment.... needed if asked for it.

The Uk has to go the diplomatic route or they'll look like the US in many peoples eyes and tat would be bad for both of our countries. They seem to be going about it the smart way and showing how the Iranians are lying and violating the Geneva Convention. The Uk may not be going in guns blazing but thats what Iran wants and I think thats why Iran did this. If Iran is attacked they will get sympathy and support from Iraq more than anyone and that would be HORRIBLE for all of us.
UK needs to keep doing what they are doing while trying to find out where their ppl are being held in case it looks viable to attempt a rescue mission. But they need to get the UN involved and have the loudest voice next to theirs to be Iraq's. It was their waters, its their neighbor and biggest trading partner, their only other Shia led govt and theie occupying forces that were kidnapped.

I kind of brought this a little off track but what Isreal did realates to what the Britsh would be doing if they attacked Iran to get their soldiers back. Hezbollah is like the resistance in Iraq. It would have been hard to locate them and punish them. What you are seeing here is two options that the British have that is making their decision difficult. If you go into a country then you are going to have people in that country that agree with what you are doing and people who do not. They could destroy Iran and not even get their soldiers back which would make them look bad. Or they could go in, not even get their soldiers back and get stuck in a war where it's hard to find your targets which makes it impossible to win. Im not even going to go futher into that because if you know what's going on you understand and if you don't this could take forever. Ask questions if you must, that could single things out and help me avoid writing a book.

I think the best way to get the soldiers back would be to send in SF teams to get the soldiers and then bomb nuclear sites. However, this may not be the best political move to make at the time. I think what people fail to realize is how many things every event ties into. Everyone want's to say stay peaceful or go to war when there is a lot more to the situation. There are factors that are going to effect your lives that people don't even see.

Everyone knows the cycle of life and how everything ties together right? If you take something out it could through everything out of balance. This is true for most things including situations like this. The butterfly effect if you would like to think of it like that.

Styki

Everyone is acting like this business in Iran is new? Why is that?

This is old history. I watched two interviews of former Iranian hostages last night. This has been cooking since Jimmy Carter. All these years of diplomacy and all we have to show for it is a country run by madmen who are going to launch a nuke any year now. They stand up in front of the cameras and tell us exactly what they are going to do and then people act like it never happened?

The Spring Equinox has come and they truly believe the Mahdi is coming very shortly. They believe when this happens the rest of the world will willingly join with them. Ahmadinejad has stated this too many times for the world to play dumb. The second he has the weapon in hand the real war starts. He believes he is the instrument by which the Mahdi will return.

I don't think a lot of people comprehend the danger. Or, they do and they just don't want to accept it. These people may have modern technology but it was handed to them and their society did not develop with it. Using their own children for booby traps should have been a good hint. Us protecting their oil will be our undoing and they know it. How could anyone in their right mind defend people who strap bombs to their own children?

What's happening with that poor girl should be obvious. They have done this many times. While she is on camera one of her mates is off camera with a gun to his head or a knife to his throat. Take the time to search for first hand accounts from previous hostages. Those tapes and letters are not for us. They are made for their own citizens to work them into a frenzy with anti-West rhetoric.

Iran's economy is also faltering. This little charade will net them a nice little profit. Watch the oil prices over the next few days. They have gotten away with this time after time for 30+ years and they continue to get away with it. To the young people here; this history did not start when you first got interested.

To our British friends. The US has your back. Even Congress won't interfere. The US would never act or speak out before being asked. Best friends don't let each other down. If Iran thinks we wont they are a lot stupider than I think they really are.

You don't need us though. Great Britain is plenty powerful. To think otherwise would be at the enemies own peril. Either one of us could level Iran in a day and there is nothing they could do to stop it. What prevents us is that unlike them; we care about the innocent. If that were not true; they would have been toast long ago.

How many UN Resolutions does a country have to ignore before action is taken. Look how many Sadam ignored while he stole the money and butchered his people and still the World was blind. This me, me, me mentality is destroying us; just like it did the Romans. We will all die wealthy and the Barbarians will inherit the Earth again. What is going on in the Middle East is at the Europeans doorstep now and it will cross the ocean soon. They already have a foothold in South and Central America. I expect to wake up, turn on the TV and see that hundreds of thousands are dead either here or in Europe any day now. Then maybe the blind will see?