reply to post by schuyler
Originally posted by schuyler
Ridiculing the flood story in this way is as idiotic as the flood story itself.
Not really, especially when there are people on here that actually subscribe to it as actual fact.
Extrapolating population numbers from the myth is laughable. It's completely a straw man argument.
...I'm not going to defend the source I cited. I was younger, less rigorous in my explorations.
Of course, it isn't really laughable when some people take it as fact. And it's not a straw man. A straw man would be saying something that has
nothing to do with what the Bible says.
To conclude that this specific myth is wrong, therefore a flood couldn't have happened is as backward in its thinking as any creationist claim that
it represents something that literally happened as stated in the Bible.
Actually, the conclusion is that the flood as described in the Bible couldn't have happened as described by the Bible.
The reason a global flood couldn't have happened is because it's physically impossible.
Also, floods happen, just never on that scale.
No Christian or Jew I know believes in the literal ark & flood story.
I can provide links to people claiming that it is literal fact here on ATS. It's actually why I bumped this thread in the first place.
It's a metaphor for creation. It's symbolic.
No, it's a metaphor for "Stop doing that stuff or god is going to drown you all...except he's not too mean so he's going to save the nicest guy,
his family, and some animals"
Do you believe that the tomb in the Garden of Gesthemene in Jerusalem near Golgotha (now presidng over a tourist bus parking lot) is ACTUALLY the tomb
of Jesus Christ? It's the right time. It's the right place. It's exactly as described in the gospels, but is it THE place? We'll never know, but
even if it NEVER happened, it's the symbolic place, the traditional place (one of several competing places, the most famous being inside the Church
of the Holy Sephulcre).
Um...not the point of this. The main point is that a global flood is impossible. A flood as described by Genesis is far more impossible.
In other words, it doesn't matter if it really isn't the place and it doesn't matter if the ark & flood story never happened. That's
True, but there are others on here that seem to care.
But the question of a flood happening worldwide is a totally different issue, and there is every reason to believe that it did.
...well, of course that's a separate issue. It's an issue that it could not have happened
Not only is the flood myth, in all its many variations, pervasive in mythology all over the world,
...all sorts of myths are pervasive in world mythology. Read "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell.
discoveries of underwater structures from Japan to India all point to a severe sea level rise a few thousand years ago.
...except that it doesn't. It points to isolated cases of changes in sea level. Those two findings don't even relate to each other, they relate to
All you have to do is look at the scientific record. What happened 12,000 years ago?
The most recent Ice Age began to lose its grip on the world.
"Ice Age" doesn't mean that everywhere was covered in ice and snow. It was just really cold
We've had about 12,000 years of global warming which started way back then before SUVs were blamed for it.
This is why I said "Ugh"
We actually can track global climate by tree-ring studies. We know that global climate has fluctuated, not seen a steady, 12000 year increase.
Now look in any scientific textbook on ice ages to find out what happened to global sea levels during the Ice Age.
It was cold, land bridges formed in certain areas due to interruption in the water cycle, mammoths were shaggy, etc
For one thing, it sucked up enough water into ice that a land bridge was created between Asia and North America. Voila: "Native" Americans came to
the western hemisphere over this land bridge. DNA proves it well enough.
This is getting to be an awfully long bit on something that isn't related to flooding...
Or is it just really roundabout?
Now take a look at a map of North America. You see that big round bay in north Canada? Hudson Bay. What do you think that big round strucure is? It's
a very old meteor or asteroid strike. When the Ice Age began to give way, the ice covering Hudson Bay melted into a great big pool--held in place by
the ice on land surrounding it which had not yet melted--just like the ice on the shore of lake Michigan during winter is way higher than Lake
Michigan's level itself.
In the words of Wikipedia:
Not that I'm saying you're wrong, I'd just like to see a source.
This resulted in a large ice dam surrounding what was then a very full Hudson Bay. And when the ice dam broke th sea level all over the world went up
60 feet in a matter of hours. And whatever civilizations existed around the world, probably iron age at best civilizations, maybe pre-renaissance
cultures in Japan and India and even Mesopotamia, suddenly lost a great part of their seashore based populations.
...seriously? Pre-renaissance civilization in the ice age
As someone who studied archeology and almost went into the field, I have to say this is the most laughable assertion I've heard on here.
They were stone age civilizations. Seriously. How could a pre-renaissance level civilization arise during a period of desolation?
Hell, where is any evidence for this?
And there is no geological evidence to support any claim you just made.
THAT'S where the flood stories come from.
Hell, there isn't any evidence of anything.
In a pre-literate society they didn't write it down like Pliny the Eklder wrote about the destruction of Pompeii.
...so they advanced to iron age and pre-renaissance levels without writing?
The best you can get is maybe bronze age without writing. The most advanced pre-literate societies being those of the pre-colonial Americas.
They incorporated it into their mythology in an attempt to keep the story alive, and like all such stories enduring thousands of years, it reverted to
a very basic truth, enbellished with ritual and myth, down to the present day. The ark never happened, but the Flood did and the Bible is just trying
to tell the story as best it can.
...except that...no. It doesn't make any sense at all. So it's not a global flood, it happened in Japan and India, the civilizations were lost, yet
somehow people managed to spread it by word of mouth to everywhere
I'm sorry, but now I'm outright skeptical of the whole claim.
You guys will throw the baby out with the bathwater every time on this stuff. You are so fixated on 'fact' that you miss the whole point.
I'm fixated on evidence
, here it is entirely lacking for the claims of the Bible and any claims of cataclysmic flood.
(PS Please forgive my spelling. I'm having trouble with my vision and can barely see the print.)
I recommend using the following command: (ctrl +) That is ctrl and + at the same time. It should zoom in on your browser to make things easier on your