"The Whole Silly Flood Story"

reply to post by 11Bravo


Your bible doesn't include the Old Testament?
You seriously need to do some research...

reply to post by aliengenes


OR maybe you are wrong and have not studied the bible and the reason behind choosing a particular race as the one that will bring about the prophecy's that are spoken, and you show your lack of understanding of the Israel people as they do not use nor did they write the New Testament.

While I haven't found evidence to show, as of yet, that the flood scenario from the Bible happened word-for-word as per the text, the fact that nearly every single cultural around the world carries with it a flood myth begins to show to me that something on a disaster scale happened in early civilized human history.

I would venture to say that the flood occurred before the widespread use of writing and after man left the caves (no flood cave art). So in place of a system that hadn't gained realization (which can be said for some places even today) it was up to pass on the history through the only other viable way, oral tradition. This is where we'll come across language used in flood stories pertaining to the entire world being flooded and every animal being saved which at the time was meant for contextual conciseness for the speaker to his audience. Man can only remember so much. So story with every detail became the gist of the entire incident for time's sake.

Moses could have very well written the Book of Genesis as is known in the Old Testament, but I would say that the information was compiled from generations of oral tradition and possibly formatted to fit his own intentions and to be placed into context for his audience. Moses was only Man and Man always has an agenda.

A worldwide flood, yes, but not as told in the bible. That flood looks like a refreshing spring rain compared to what reallly happened.
I have this book.

When the Earth Nearly Died
Compelling Evidence of A Catastrophic World Change 9,500 BC
(c) 1995 by By D S Allan and J B Delair. 386pp.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Republished in 1997 as
"Cataclysm : Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B. C."

Here's and excerpt from the article.

"When the Earth Nearly Died carefully documents the fascinating story - which has never been told before in such detail - of how this Golden Age of peaceful conditions and equable climates ended traumatically in a tremendous catastrophe about 11,500 years ago. This was part of a cataclysm which disturbed the whole solar system, destroyed at least one sizable planet and its satellite, and also severely devastated Mars and Earth.

Among the fundamental geophysical effects experienced by Earth were a massive fracturing of the crust, a realignment of Earth's axis, elevation of new mountains, and widespread rearrangement of land and sea. These changes were accompanied by an appalling global conflagration, a gigantic flood, and what has been described as 'collapsed sky' conditions. A bombardment by debris from the disintegrated satellite of the destroyed planet added to the worldwide chaos."


www.knowledge.co.uk...

reply to post by earthdude


...no, they really don't. They might have a similar story, but floods happen all over the world. Just like there are numerous myths about humanity stealing fire from deities, journeying into the underworld, etc doesn't mean that there must be a factual basis for them.

Humans didn't understand floods so they made up stories, simple as that.


reply to post by ACTS 2:38

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

You stated

"Any system with enough water to uniformly cover the surface, including its tallest peaks, would require that the system stay submerged"

But that is all it is, is a statement where is your empirical evidence????

The simple understanding of hydrodynamics. If I take a self-contained scale model of ...let's say Rome... in a box that has no water, and I fill it up to the point where the tallest point of the city is full, then the water will...persist in that point. The water has nowhere to go.

It's scientifically impossible to have a situation where you can cover the entirety of the world, including the peak of mount Everest, in water for any period of time without the entire world still being flooded.

Just because one does not believe it happened

No, I am fairly certain this didn't happen. This isn't like my disbelief in God. It is something I can provide a positive position that it is impossible to support this ridiculous story.

and does not like to admit that the large fossil grave yards or hundreds of thousands of square miles of sedimentary rock exist proves the bible more than it does some ho hum idea of long slow process's does not make such a statement true or even plausible because it is breathed.

Um...no, sedimentation and the fossil record don't support the flood theory. Fossils are separated by their geologic time period, not mixed up.

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


All of them are contradictory.

reply to post by nivekronnoco

Originally posted by nivekronnoco
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Are you aware that there are other flood legends besides the one from the christian bible?....

Yes, I'm very aware. I'm quite fond of reading mythology.

Virtually every tribe and race all over the world has such a legend,so your thread is limited in meaning.

And they're all different. Hell, a lot of them don't even bother to say the whole world was flooded. The problem is that all the stories are contradictory and the concept is ridiculously impossible.

Basic hydrodynamics refutes the flood stories. An entire lack of physical evidence refutes the flood stories.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by earthdude
I have always thought the Noahrian Flood was based in fact. Many cultures in South and Central America have the same story at the same time. This is too much of a coincidence.

Cultures all around the world have experienced disastrous floods.
That doesn't mean their stories of the event are all of the same flood though.

www.talkorigins.org...

# Europe

* Greek, Arcadian, Samothrace
* Roman
* Scandinavian, German
* Celtic, Welsh
* Lithuanian, Transylvanian Gypsy
* Turkey

# Near East

* Sumerian
* Egypt, Babylonian, Assyrian, Chaldean, Hebrew, Islamic
* Persian, Zoroastrian

# Africa

* Cameroon
* Masai (East Africa), Komililo Nandi, Kwaya (Lake Victoria)
* Southwest Tanzania, Pygmy, Ababua (northern Zaire), Kikuyu (Kenya), Bakongo (west Zaire), Bachokwe? (southern Zaire), Lower Congo, Basonge, Bena-Lulua (Congo River, southeast Zaire)
* Yoruba (southwest Nigeria), Efik-Ibibio (Nigeria), Ekoi (Nigeria)
* Mandingo (Ivory Coast)

Just a few there are many more but hey stick your head in the sand and deny ignorance

Thanks for proving what I've said, that cultures all around the world have experienced disasterous floods.
Are you going to tell me any of the above could not have a flood other than the mythical bible one?

I've nearly drowned in Melbourne, Australia, during an unexpected flood there.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
reply to post by Kailassa

 

Sorry you are wrong,

95 % of fossils found in the world are of sea creatures

of the left over 5% they are mostly incomplete

www.slate.com...
There are currently about 3,000 so-called "full" dinosaur specimens—complete or near-complete skeletons or just a complete or near-complete skull—in museums around the United States

That is a claim of complete or near complete skeletons or skulls?? That means not very much in a world of millions of years old.

The Biblical Flood

www.drdino.com...

Second Peter 3 tells us that the scoffers in the last days will be willingly ignorant of how God created the heavens and the earth. They would also be ignorant of the Flood. These two great events must be considered before making any statements about the conditions on earth today. Only about 3% of the earth today is habitable for man. The rest is under water, ice, deserts, mountains, etc. If the earth before the Flood were, for example, 70% habitable, it could have supported a huge population. Most of the water in today’s oceans would have been under the earth’s crust before the Flood.1

As I said, the biblical flood would have provided excellent fossils of masses of human skeletons, if it had happened.

This is because being trapped in sediment can preserve and gradually fossilise bones.

Creatures dying on dry land are more likely to have their bones dispersed and broken down, leaving no fossils.

Thus sea creatures are much more likely to become fossilised than land creatures.

Thus there are far more fossils of aquatic organisms than land organisms.

I think there was a localized flood,
Sumerian origin
Ziusudra Epic

www.sacred-texts.com...

All the windstorms, exceedingly powerful, attacked as one,
The deluge raged over the surface of the earth. p. 98
After, for seven days and seven nights,
The deluge had raged in the land,
And the huge boat had been tossed about on the great waters,
Utu came forth, who sheds light on heaven and earth.
Ziusudra opened a window of the huge boat,
Ziusudra, the king,
Before Utu prostrated himself,
The king kills an ox, slaughters a sheep.

Again a long break follows; when our text becomes Intelligible once more, it is describing the immortalizing of Ziusudra:

Ziusudra, the king,
Before An and Enlil prostrated himself;
Life like a god they give him,
Breath eternal like a god they bring down for him.

In those days, Ziusudra, the king,
The preserver of the name of . . . and man,
In the mountain of crossing, the mountain of Dilmun, the place where the sun rises,
They (An and Enlil) caused to dwell.

The remainder of the poem is destroyed.

Marine Team Finds Surprising Evidence Supporting A Great Biblical Flood
www.sciencedaily.com...

"We found that indeed a flood happened around that time. From core samples, we see that a flood broke through the natural barrier separating the Mediterranean Sea and the freshwater Black Sea, bringing with it seashells that only grow in a marine environment. There was no doubt that it was a fast flood -- one that covered an expanse four times the size of Israel. It might not have been Noah, as it is written in the Bible, but we believe people in that region had to build boats in order to save their animals from drowning. We think that the ones who survived were fishermen -- they already had the boats.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Marine Team Finds Surprising Evidence Supporting A Great Biblical Flood
www.sciencedaily.com...

"We found that indeed a flood happened around that time. From core samples, we see that a flood broke through the natural barrier separating the Mediterranean Sea and the freshwater Black Sea, bringing with it seashells that only grow in a marine environment. There was no doubt that it was a fast flood -- one that covered an expanse four times the size of Israel. It might not have been Noah, as it is written in the Bible, but we believe people in that region had to build boats in order to save their animals from drowning. We think that the ones who survived were fishermen -- they already had the boats.

So now the great biblical flood was confined to Israel and its environs, and was survived by fishernen?

That's exactly what I'd expect. A big flood got remembered and gave rise to flood myths.

I think catastrophism and the Bible is a fascinating topic,

www.christiannewswire.com...

Archeologist and geologist Dr. Jeffrey Goodman in Tucson expressed excitement for another reason – he said that the data about Comet Hartley's multiple vents and its powerful emission of cyanide gas supports the Biblical text. In Goodman's new book "THE COMETS OF GOD-New Scientific Evidence for God: Recent archeological, geological and astronomical discoveries that shine new light on the Bible and its prophecies" he reports that most of the scientific data learned about comets in the last 25 years has already been recorded in the Bible! Long before the photos of Comet Hartley, the Bible correctly refers to the vents ("mouths") in an active comet's crust, and then correctly tells how these vents can powerfully spew out poisonous gas that can kill men (Revelation 9:17-19). Revelation 8:10-11 tells of a comet impact that is to poison rivers. Goodman says the Bible even gives an account of a cometary "blast" that probably contained cyanide (Isaiah 37:7) which killed 185,000 invading Assyrians outside the gates of Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah (Isaiah 37:36-37).

reply to post by Kailassa

A big flood got remembered and gave rise to flood myths.

I think there is truth to myth and legend, yes.

Flood Stories from Around the World
www.talkorigins.org...

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

The simple understanding of hydrodynamics. If I take a self-contained scale model of ...let's say Rome... in a box that has no water, and I fill it up to the point where the tallest point of the city is full, then the water will...persist in that point. The water has nowhere to go.

It's scientifically impossible to have a situation where you can cover the entirety of the world, including the peak of mount Everest, in water for any period of time without the entire world still being flooded.

Ever hear of Plate Tectonics?

How about Aquifers?

reply to post by OhZone

Among the fundamental geophysical effects experienced by Earth were a massive fracturing of the crust... elevation of new mountains, and widespread rearrangement of land and sea. These changes were accompanied by an appalling global conflagration, a gigantic flood, and what has been described as 'collapsed sky' conditions.

This is what I spoke of in another thread, as to why the entire earth was covered in water even the much smaller mountains at that time, of course the skeptics will never even consider this statement.

What I never mentioned in the discussion was as the quote says a 'collapsed sky'.

The Genesis 7:11 reference to the windows of heaven being opened has been interpreted as the collapse of such a water vapor canopy, which somehow became unstable and fell as rain, and that is where the water was "in the system" as another poster asked. Actually it's the OP, and now you have your answer from the other thread.

Also the vapor canopy caused a greenhouse effect before the Flood with a pleasant sub tropical-to-temperate climate all around the globe, even at the poles where today there is ice. This would have caused the growth of lush vegetation on the land all around the globe. The discovery of coal seams in Antarctica containing vegetation that is not now found growing at the poles, but which obviously grew under warmer conditions, a long time ago.

reply to post by dusty1


...yes, there is quite a bit of water under the Earth's surface. In fact, we can quantify it....but it's still nowhere near enough to envelop the Earth in water.

Hell, I'm not even taking into account absorption by soil...

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Of course we dismiss claims that have no basis in evidence and are easily refuted by the most basic concepts of hydrodynamics and plate tectonics

We have absolutely no evidence of cataclysmic rearranging of continents, only gradual changes.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
What I never mentioned in the discussion was as the quote says a 'collapsed sky'.

...and I already addressed this.

The Genesis 7:11 reference to the windows of heaven being opened has been interpreted as the collapse of such a water vapor canopy, which somehow became unstable and fell as rain, and that is where the water was "in the system" as another poster asked. Actually it's the OP, and now you have your answer from the other thread.

...actually, if you have that water vapor canopy you either of two possible outcomes:
1: A nuclear winter type effect due to the 'diffusion' of the sun
2: Too much pressure for all but the most hardy of life (like water bears) to survive.

Also the vapor canopy caused a greenhouse effect before the Flood with a pleasant sub tropical-to-temperate climate all around the globe, even at the poles where today there is ice.

Wait wait wait, did it diffuse the light or did it just pass through the water?
The greenhouse effect is so named because greenhouses are almost perfectly transparent

You know what, the water canopy theory has been thoroughly debunked and this video provides nice visuals and proper presentation.

This would have caused the growth of lush vegetation on the land all around the globe.

Evidence?

The discovery of coal seams in Antarctica containing vegetation that is not now found growing at the poles, but which obviously grew under warmer conditions, a long time ago.

Or we could use the better answer of plate tectonics that Antarctica wasn't always at the poles.





One last thing, I didn't simply refute the vapor canopy myself because I'm sick and tired of that old argument that has been debunked so many times that it seems like old hat to bother with it.

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

The simple understanding of hydrodynamics. If I take a self-contained scale model of ...let's say Rome... in a box that has no water, and I fill it up to the point where the tallest point of the city is full, then the water will...persist in that point. The water has nowhere to go.
It's scientifically impossible to have a situation where you can cover the entirety of the world, including the peak of mount Everest, in water for any period of time without the entire world still being flooded.

Ever hear of Plate Tectonics?
How about Aquifers?

Please explain how plate tectonics causes a large volume of water to disappear.

Aquifers are underground bodies of ground water.
Please explain how a body of underground water causes a large volume of water to disappear.

Scientifically speaking, it's more likely my theory is correct and Noah and his family drank the water up.
At least people have been known to drink water.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Madness, you've introduced me to a new vice.
I haven't laughed so hard in ages.

Now I'm going to have to search out more creation-debunking videos.

Originally posted by AdamSpeaks123
To also add one thing
Logic can also be a religion to some people, or I guess what you are reffering to logic as.
I look at logic just fine. I see the difference in theory and I carefully consider which makes more sense. I dont believe you have ever taken the time to look into religion? # it, dont even do that. Look into Christianity, other wise, explain to me where the universe came from, and then, tell me how we got to here. I emplor you too. Because you know what, without a higher power running the show, nothing can happnen.

You are filling a gap in knowledge with a mythical creature (god) and magic...typical god of the gaps trap you're falling in


Fact is, we have NO EVIDENCE for a global flood, and it's physically impossible given the amount of water we have on earth

Originally posted by mistafaz
While I haven't found evidence to show, as of yet, that the flood scenario from the Bible happened word-for-word as per the text, the fact that nearly every single cultural around the world carries with it a flood myth begins to show to me that something on a disaster scale happened in early civilized human history.

You do realize that they could all talk about LOCAL floods, right?

Floods happen for a fact...and just because people write about them doesn't mean it's suddenly a global flood. FYI, a global flood is physically impossible

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I think catastrophism and the Bible is a fascinating topic,

www.christiannewswire.com...

Archeologist and geologist Dr. Jeffrey Goodman in Tucson expressed excitement for another reason – he said that the data about Comet Hartley's multiple vents and its powerful emission of cyanide gas supports the Biblical text. In Goodman's new book "THE COMETS OF GOD-New Scientific Evidence for God: Recent archeological, geological and astronomical discoveries that shine new light on the Bible and its prophecies" he reports that most of the scientific data learned about comets in the last 25 years has already been recorded in the Bible! Long before the photos of Comet Hartley, the Bible correctly refers to the vents ("mouths") in an active comet's crust, and then correctly tells how these vents can powerfully spew out poisonous gas that can kill men (Revelation 9:17-19). Revelation 8:10-11 tells of a comet impact that is to poison rivers. Goodman says the Bible even gives an account of a cometary "blast" that probably contained cyanide (Isaiah 37:7) which killed 185,000 invading Assyrians outside the gates of Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah (Isaiah 37:36-37).

Then again, they also believed a comet was guiding them and that it was a sign of god

Either way, how does any of that prove god's existence or a global flood??? It's like saying "the fact that NYC is described pretty accurately in Spiderman is proof that Spiderman exists". Ridiculous

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by OhZone

 

Among the fundamental geophysical effects experienced by Earth were a massive fracturing of the crust... elevation of new mountains, and widespread rearrangement of land and sea. These changes were accompanied by an appalling global conflagration, a gigantic flood, and what has been described as 'collapsed sky' conditions.

This is what I spoke of in another thread, as to why the entire earth was covered in water even the much smaller mountains at that time, of course the skeptics will never even consider this statement.

What I never mentioned in the discussion was as the quote says a 'collapsed sky'.

The Genesis 7:11 reference to the windows of heaven being opened has been interpreted as the collapse of such a water vapor canopy, which somehow became unstable and fell as rain, and that is where the water was "in the system" as another poster asked. Actually it's the OP, and now you have your answer from the other thread.

Also the vapor canopy caused a greenhouse effect before the Flood with a pleasant sub tropical-to-temperate climate all around the globe, even at the poles where today there is ice. This would have caused the growth of lush vegetation on the land all around the globe. The discovery of coal seams in Antarctica containing vegetation that is not now found growing at the poles, but which obviously grew under warmer conditions, a long time ago.

edit on 1-12-2010 by Blue_Jay33 because: added more info

First of all, we have no scientific evidence for such a water canopy. As for your whole "sub tropical to temperate climate all around the glob" hogwash...nothing but lies. We know for a FACT that wasn't the case. Of course climates change over time, but drastic changes like you mention (ice ages, heat periods) happen over THOUSANDS of years...not the timeframe the bible mentions.

I have to ask, where do you get your info from?? The "scientific" stuff you post are complete lies, I'm baffled!