CNN 9/11 footage that offers good non-conspiracy evidence

Originally posted by bsbray11
You stand up your own pins to knock down. Thermite would not have to have been everywhere as long as it was nanoenergetic military grade, and witnesses did report explosions ripping from WTC7's base as it began collapsing. So you really do have nothing.

Yes, thermite would've been everywhere. Even super-duper-nanothermite doesn't burn at a universal speed. A pretty sizeable amount would've been unburned and present for all the world to see. Not to mention, some of them would've failed to ignite at all. And you'd still have all the slag, the cut columns, etc.

It's implausible to think they could've covered that up. Only in a comic book would they be able to cover that kind of evidence up.

So? You about to jump to an erroneous conclusion and declare that WTC7 could therefore not have possibly been a controlled demolition?

This is the logic I'm comparing to the "the hijackers snorted coke at a club therefore they didn't hijack the planes". You see how you can't jump to a conclusion like that? Same thing with you: you can't jump to your conclusion here, it isn't logical. That was the point I made in my last post.

You're mistaken. My conclusion about WTC 7 isn't based on the timing of the collapse precluding a controlled demolition. My conclusion is based on the fact that none of the claims about controlled demolition hold up. The timing of the "controlled demolition" is just more illogic to add to the pile, but it's certainly not my reason for disbelieving in it.

They didn't have sense enough to bring it down asymmetrically, or think of a cover story that made any sense, either, but you still buy it, and most people haven't even heard of WTC7. Doesn't sound like your bitching and moaning would have made that much difference to them either way.

Whatever. The point is, if the way the building fell is proof of a controlled demolition, why in the world didn't the government make it fall assymetrically? Are you really going to tell me they wouldn't have thought of that? That the government really said, "Hey, nobody will listen to anybody's bitching and moaning?"

They pulled off the biggest conspiracy in history, but decided to let that one detail fly loose? No sense there whatsoever.

You didn't get my point.

If your point was that a fundamentalist wacko like Atta wouldn't do things that contradict his religion, then you didn't have a point. Of course he would. They all do. Christian, Muslim, Buddhist--everyone's a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Damocles
and bsb, i cant rule out nanothermite, but why do most sources say it didnt exist until after 911?

Can you show me all the sources that actually say that? It's just thermite with smaller particles, especially aluminum. Are you telling me you've never heard of finely ground aluminum being explosive until after 9/11? Exploding is a chemical process; it's no secret that finely ground materials like that, that are correctly distributed, will react in general more rapidly, whatever the results or byproducts are. It's only since 9/11 that you're hearing more of nanothermites being applied to older weapons technologies, like daisy cutters and all of that, to make them more explosive, but even that has really nothing to do with 9/11. It's just that the military has suddenly been more creative with nanoenergetics in the past few years.


All of the questions you raised are, as always, problems that would only exist if WTC7 was a conventional demolition. That's great, it probably wasn't a conventional demolition. But it sure as hell was a demolition. The physics of it dictate that. All of the columns fail symmetrically, simultaneously, and the building comes down at free-fall. That is controlled. That is not random damage and fire acting chaotically over 7+ hours.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Are you telling me you've never heard of finely ground aluminum being explosive until after 9/11?

It's not explosive enough to take out the columns. It would've had to have been used to cut them. See oft-repeated arguments about all the evidence that would leave.

But it sure as hell was a demolition. The physics of it dictate that. All of the columns fail symmetrically, simultaneously, and the building comes down at free-fall. That is controlled. That is not random damage and fire acting chaotically over 7+ hours.

The overwhelming majority of the scientific community disagrees with you.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
Yes, thermite would've been everywhere. Even super-duper-nanothermite doesn't burn at a universal speed.

I don't follow. The amount of thermite leftover is directly proportional to the speed in which the reaction takes place?

I think you just like saying "Thermite would've been everywhere" repeatedly. Say it often enough and eventually someone will buy it, right?

Not to mention, some of them would've failed to ignite at all.

Really?

Setting up your own pins to knock down again or do you actually have evidence that this would have to be the case regardless? That's kind of important to consider before you just spout whatever you feel like.

It's implausible to think they could've covered that up. Only in a comic book would they be able to cover that kind of evidence up.

Once again, really?

They hauled ass getting rid of ALL the evidence at Ground Zero before it could be examined scientifically. You're not reading very creative comic books; that's how it actually happened.

You're mistaken. My conclusion about WTC 7 isn't based on the timing of the collapse precluding a controlled demolition.

If you realize that it's illogical to jump to conclusions with it, then why do you keep posting it? Are you trying to catch somebody with fallacious logic intentionally?

My conclusion is based on the fact that none of the claims about controlled demolition hold up.

Ok, then. I hold that since all of WTC7's corners began falling simultaneously, they were failed consciously with human aid. Can you counter me by explaining how simple heat transfer and strength yield rates for steel can cause the same thing given the general conditions at WTC7?

Whatever. The point is, if the way the building fell is proof of a controlled demolition, why in the world didn't the government make it fall assymetrically?

No, lol, that's not the point. That's about the stupidest point anyone could make after watching WTC7 fall. Here is a building hardly anyone has heard of, 47 stories, falls straight down symmetrically at free-fall. As soon as I see that, I'm most definitely not thinking, "Gee whiz!! That's too freaking obvious! Must have been [insert non-existant collapse mechanism theory here] after all!"

If your point was that a fundamentalist wacko like Atta wouldn't do things that contradict his religion, then you didn't have a point.

Well that's fine, lol, because it wasn't my point!!

Dude, READ and THINK before responding to me. This is getting irritated, two posts in a row and you STILL aren't getting what I'm saying, and you're not leaving a very good impression on me.

[edit on 15-3-2007 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by whiterabbit
It's not explosive enough to take out the columns.

Wasn't I the one that told you this to begin with? It detonates around 1.3k f/s whereas RDX is closer to 28k f/s.

Too bad that wasn't my point there, either. Christ. The point was the reaction is always more energetic/efficient in general.

The overwhelming majority of the scientific community disagrees with you.

Then I must have missed them. Most real engineers and scientists who have looked at the towers and Building 7 agree with me for pretty strong reasons. The exceptions are Frank Greening, B&Z, and of course the NIST team that was employed. I could name you off plenty of engineers and scientists that have come out publically specifically to cast strong doubt against those people, and even link you to their analyses/interviews/etc.

[edit on 15-3-2007 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11
I don't follow. The amount of thermite leftover is directly proportional to the speed in which the reaction takes place?

Incorrect. It's not proportional. The thermite burning quicker would've made the building fall faster, but the burn times still would've varied among the thermite. The building STILL would've fallen before much of the thermite got burned completely, and would've prevented it from burning.

I think you just like saying "Thermite would've been everywhere" repeatedly. Say it often enough and eventually someone will buy it, right?

They SHOULD buy it! Thermite WOULD have been everywhere.

Not to mention, some of them would've failed to ignite at all.

Really?

Setting up your own pins to knock down again or do you actually have evidence that this would have to be the case regardless? That's kind of important to consider before you just spout whatever you feel like.

Yes, some of it would've failed to ignite at all. Some ignition devices fail. That's why guys in the military sometimes have to go set that crap off by hand.

It's implausible to think they could've covered that up. Only in a comic book would they be able to cover that kind of evidence up.

Once again, really?

They hauled ass getting rid of ALL the evidence at Ground Zero before it could be examined scientifically. You're not reading very creative comic books; that's how it actually happened.

It doesn't matter how fast they did it. They would've been hauling plain-to-the-eye evidence out in front of hundreds of onlookers. People would've gotten photographs out the ass, they would've seen things, reported it.

It didn't happen. There was no evidence.

Dude, READ and THINK before responding to me. This is getting irritated, two posts in a row and you STILL aren't getting what I'm saying, and you're not leaving a very good impression on me.

Okay, this is like the third time I've had to call you on this.

If you are unable to make your argument without resorting to condescension, personal attacks, and making baseless accusations about people arguing with you making things up--then you need to stop posting.

You don't agree with me? Fine. I don't agree with you. But I'm not in here telling you how full of crap you are and how you're making # up. If you can't argue without saying those kinds of things, you need to stop arguing.

[edit on 15-3-2007 by whiterabbit]

Originally posted by whiterabbit
The overwhelming majority of the scientific community disagrees with you.

Since you claim to know the overwhelming majority of the scientific community's position on 911. Wont you please give us the exact number of people in the scientific community, and then please give us the exact number of them that disagree??

Oh thats right... you can't...

whiterabbit, you are NOT the overwhelming majority, so you can not speak for them and tell use what they do and do not agree with. You can not post claims without any resources to back them up. Stop speaking for other people. STOP SPREADING LIES!!

We already know why some of the scientific community disagrees, and that is because they are to scared. They fear for their lives. They fear that when they DO prove the official story wrong and find the true masterminds, that their life will be put in danger..

That is probably the same fear you and esdad have. You guys say "dont live in fear", well you are the ones living in fear, you are to afraid to stand up against the government. The government built this fear in you, and they used it against you on 911. The government knew, that even if people did find out 911 was an inside job, people would be to afraid to stand against the government. That is exactly what is happening.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Too bad that wasn't my point there, either. Christ. The point was the reaction is always more energetic/efficient in general.

Then I don't know why that's your point. Because it doesn't add anything to your case for thermite at all. All the arguments against apply to it as much as regular thermite, if you're not talking about using it as explosives.

Most real engineers and scientists who have looked at the towers and Building 7 agree with me for pretty strong reasons.

No, dude, they don't. And I'd love for you to enumerate all these engineers and scientists. I am highly confident it's a handful.

Why do you think no engineers have blown the lid off this? You really think no engineer wouldn't love to win the Nobel Peace Prize for exposing the biggest mass murder in American history?

Everybody's just ignoring those lone voices in the wilderness, right? It couldn't POSSIBLY be that there's no basis for their conclusions and that's why no one is listening to them.

Originally posted by Connected
Since you claim to know the overwhelming majority of the scientific community's position on 911. Wont you please give us the exact number of people in the scientific community, and then please give us the exact number of them that disagree??

Oh thats right... you can't...

Sure I can. YOU tell ME the amount of legitimate scientists and engineers who agree with you, and I'll do some quick math to subract that from the amount in the world. That should give at least some idea of how many people don't agree.

STOP SPREADING LIES!!

And cue the attacking.

We already know why some of the scientific community disagrees, and that is because they are to scared. They fear for their lives. They fear that when they DO prove the official story wrong and find the true masterminds, that their life will be put in danger..

That doesn't even make sense. Why is Dylan Avery walking around alive then? The government couldn't find a creative way to take him out? They couldn't find a way to kill Jones?

That is probably the same fear you and esdad have. You guys say "dont live in fear", well you are the ones living in fear, you are to afraid to stand up against the government. The government built this fear in you, and they used it against you on 911. The government knew, that even if people did find out 911 was an inside job, people would be to afraid to stand against the government. That is exactly what is happening.

You got me! You got the Tater! I'm scared to death of my government. That's why I'm in here blowing holes in these theories. It couldn't possibly be that it's because junk science, illogical, and doesn't stand to reason.

No, it's because I'm a neo-con worshipping disinfo agent who's scared to death of the truth!

You got me, fellas!

Originally posted by whiterabbit

No, dude, they don't. And I'd love for you to enumerate all these engineers and scientists. I am highly confident it's a handful.

Why do you think no engineers have blown the lid off this? You really think no engineer wouldn't love to win the Nobel Peace Prize for exposing the biggest mass murder in American history?

Everybody's just ignoring those lone voices in the wilderness, right? It couldn't POSSIBLY be that there's no basis for their conclusions and that's why no one is listening to them.

whiterabbit, I just frikken told you why the engineers dont "blow the lid off".

www.debunking911.com...

They fear being killed by the government
They fear losing their jobs

Originally posted by whiterabbit


Sure I can. YOU tell ME the amount of legitimate scientists and engineers who agree with you, and I'll do some quick math to subract that from the amount in the world. That should give at least some idea of how many people don't agree.

You are STILL lying. You just said you can, but then you ask me a question to help you. I'm not the one claiming I know how many agree and dont agree, YOU ARE. YOU TELL ME!!

W.t.f. am I even trying to talk to this straw man.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
That doesn't even make sense. Why is Dylan Avery walking around alive then? The government couldn't find a creative way to take him out? They couldn't find a way to kill Jones?
.

Because at this early stage of disclosure, they are just labeled "conspiracy theorist" and then ignored. Once a large group actually get the balls to disclose 911, then just maybe they might start killing people off, or start relieving people of their possitions. Its simple really.... Its to bad you don't have the ability to think that complex.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
You got me! You got the Tater! I'm scared to death of my government. That's why I'm in here blowing holes in these theories. It couldn't possibly be that it's because junk science, illogical, and doesn't stand to reason.
.

You think it is junk science because you have absolutly ZERO experiance in the field. You do not have the ability to determine what is logical and what isnt, plus you are a nobody. "Blowing holes in these theories" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All you are doing is crying because you can't believe the government pulled off 911 and got away with it so far... You for some reason cant beleive the government actually knew all of Americas mentality, and knew that we could be easly fooled, and really really gullable.. Thats what you are SCARED AND GULLABLE.

You haven't blown holes in SH!T, all you do is point at your Bible called NIST and think its real. LOL!!!

Originally posted by whiterabbit
No, it's because I'm a neo-con worshipping disinfo agent who's scared to death of the truth!
You got me, fellas!

We know...

...did you know 90% of the time someone is "just kidding", they really aren't and they just have to say "just kidding" so that nobody would know the truth in the end?

Go away you disinfo child.

edit... wth is up with double posts?

[edit on 15-3-2007 by Connected]

----edit----

double post.. crap...


I will fill it with info....

..It is 100% obvious now, that there are REAL disinfo agents on these forums. No matter how much real evidence is thrown at them, they will always agree with the official story.

When you provide overwhelming evidence and questions to them, they will ignore it and continue to talk about their spoon fed explination.


For example, one said:

"a 20 story hole in WTC 7, thats never happend to a building before".


LOL!!!!!! They think that cosmetic damage to a building will structuraly damage it LOL!!!!!

FYI, a steel building has a skelliton structure made of steel. With an outer skin of concrete and other materials that is cosmetic. Kind of like the human body, skin and bones.

Some reason the 911 official story believers think that a little gash in the skin would actually cause bones to break... LOL

[edit on 15-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by Connected
whiterabbit, I just frikken told you why the engineers dont "blow the lid off".

They fear being killed by the government
They fear losing their jobs

And I just told you why that doesn't make sense.

If people who speak out will get killed, why are Dylan Avery, Dr. Jones, and all the other Truthers still alive? Why are the civi engineers who HAVE spoken out still alive?

Obviously, speaking out doesn't get you killed. Unless you have some evidence of Truthers getting killed that you'd like to present.

guys you are falling for those incredible government conspiracy ppl.
You are playing their games.
They have ZERO scientific evidence backing their incredible theories.
They just lost it.
I don't think you guys can help them at all.
Don't you feel sorry for them? I honestly do.
They probably are little kids around 10 or 11 yrs old. You might want want to start discuss with them like little kids.
Lets try this one:
Did you see the Meteorite found in world trade center -
Little Kid: I know daddy its because its made with 4 stories of the WTC .
Yes little bunny how in hell did it melt that way?
Daddy big fire with jet fuel and paper nasty paper daddy.
Yes little bunny but paper or office furniture and jet fuel wont create something like that you need little higher temperature. It did reach temperatures as hot as the sun.
Daddy paper burns real hot.
No little bunny not that hot
NO NONONOOOO daddy is wrong really wrong paper gets real real hot I burned my little finger once. UUUU I remember very hot.
Ohh ok little bunny as you like it, evil jet fuel (40 cubic meters not even a small room of it) melted and made those 4 stories of the WTC look like a meteorite and the nasty paper finished it off..
OH daddy thank you so much I knew I was right and you were wrong

Originally posted by Connected
You are STILL lying. You just said you can, but then you ask me a question to help you. I'm not the one claiming I know how many agree and dont agree, YOU ARE. YOU TELL ME!!

You know what, my friend? I think you're as wrong as wrong can be. But I wouldn't call you a liar. Try and control yourself.

And I didn't say anything about knowing exactly how many civil engineers and scientists agree with me. I said I could tell you. And I can--but you'll have to tell me how many agree with you first.

W.t.f. am I even trying to talk to this straw man.

Seriously... I'm just asking. Do you actually know what the term straw man means? Because you and others throw it around so much, when it clearly doesn't apply, and it really makes me wonder.

Because at this early stage of disclosure, they are just labeled "conspiracy theorist" and then ignored. Once a large group actually get the balls to disclose 911, then just maybe they might start killing people off, or start relieving people of their possitions. Its simple really.... Its to bad you don't have the ability to think that complex.

Yeah... That uh... makes perfect sense.

You think it is junk science because you have absolutly ZERO experiance in the field. You do not have the ability to determine what is logical and what isnt, plus you are a nobody. "Blowing holes in these theories" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've seen thermite getting burned in real life. Have you?
I've used a cutting torch more times than I can remember. Have you?
I worked with steel constantly as a teenager. Did you?

You have no idea what I know and don't know.

All you are doing is crying because you can't believe the government pulled off 911 and got away with it so far... You for some reason cant beleive the government actually knew all of Americas mentality, and knew that we could be easly fooled, and really really gullable.. Thats what you are SCARED AND GULLABLE.

You got me again! You got the Tater again! I'm scared to death of my government. That's why I spend so much time in here arguing. I'm TERRIFIED!

You got me!

Go away you disinfo child.

Dude... Get a grip, seriously. Look at how wacky you got in that post, and you were coming unglued enough to triple-post it.

And do I need to remind you about the courtesy rule around here? If have to resort to name-calling, you shouldn't be posting.

Originally posted by whiterabbit

Originally posted by Connected
whiterabbit, I just frikken told you why the engineers dont "blow the lid off".

They fear being killed by the government
They fear losing their jobs

And I just told you why that doesn't make sense.

If people who speak out will get killed, why are Dylan Avery, Dr. Jones, and all the other Truthers still alive? Why are the civi engineers who HAVE spoken out still alive?

Obviously, speaking out doesn't get you killed. Unless you have some evidence of Truthers getting killed that you'd like to present.

I just frikken told you, its because the government knows people wont believe them. The are labeled "conspiracy theorist" at this stage and then ignored.

Once the entire American population wakes up to 911, these people with the most evidence probably WILL be executed or lose their jobs. Or worse, go to jail for national security reasons.

You see, if you have legitimate proof of dealings that will hurt a government official, you are killed in a plane crash or a botched robbery..maybe a suicide. Just ask 200 or so of the Clintons associates. Oh, that's right you can't, they are all dead.

If Alex Jones had REAL proof, or anyone else, they should raise the money and do a superbowl commercial. It would get to the world, and everyone would know. Instead, they are content to squeak and madke a little noise jsut to boost ratings and sell DVD's, but not find a cure. If it was there, it would be out by now.

Can you honestly say that the people who work for NIST, and ACSE are not qualified to make an analysis of these collaspes, and for what reasons?

Any comments on the video?

Originally posted by Connected
..It is 100% obvious now, that there are REAL disinfo agents on these forums.

That's me! Disinfo agent. My goal in life is to make everyone obedient to the government. You got me.

When you provide overwhelming evidence and questions to them, they will ignore it and continue to talk about their spoon fed explination.

Easy question for you.

Exactly what evidence have you provided besides the following:

1. "Fire and damage couldn't bring down those buildings."
2. "It looked just like a controlled demolition."

Seriously. I want you to answer. I want you to tell me what evidence you have provided.

Originally posted by piacenza
They have ZERO scientific evidence backing their incredible theories.

I'll ask you the same easy question.

What actual evidence do you have that the official story isn't true OTHER THAN SAYING:

1. "Fire and damage couldn't have brought down a building."
2. "It looked like a controlled demolition."

Seriously. Tell me. I want to know.