BBC: Israel and Iran share most negative ratings in global poll

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
American casualties: 131,028,000

British casualties: 47,760,000

yugoslavia: 15,400,000 (they didnt have one for slovenia)

Gee, it doesnt look like it was only europeans fighting and dying as you claim.

BRAVO!

WWII Casualties



Total Deaths:
United States: 418,500
Yugoslavia: 1,027,000
Soviet Union: 23,200,000

Guess again.

Looks like Yugoslavia payed a bigger price then the United States by 1% - and that is a lot coming from a country, which had 15,400,000 people at that time living there, which means 6.67% of the population died one way or antoher.

Another post hijacked by Ulta-Patriots:

How this thread has been allowed to be hijacked I do not know especially meanining as it's in the breaking news forum.

This truely is the dark side of ATS and it's growing.

I remember one of the three amigo's last year saying that the derailing of threads will not be tolerated!

Someone call the police!

Originally posted by Jimmy1880
Another post hijacked by Ulta-Patriots:................Someone call the police!

Not quite.....

Souljah looks to have it under control.

The devil is in the detail, which is where Souljah finds the ammunition to fend off blinkered posters.

Souljah,

Well I am more then happy that you are the only one who knows what is going on in the World. But tell me - how many Wars was USA involved in since WWII - and how many was for example Iraq or Iran or Afganistan? Interesting no?

Iraq: Since Iraq did not exist as a state until 1932 I can only refer to Iraq's involvement in wars since 1932. Iraq started as a series of dictatorships resulting from coups ubtil the Baathists took over in 1968. Iraq send troops to fight Israel in 1948, 1967 and 1973 even though Israel was not a threat to them. In 1979 Sadaam Hussein cam into power and killed off all his political rivals and then in 1980-1988 war at war with Iran. Two years later (1991) Iraq invaded Kuwait for NO apparent reason which resulted in the Gulf war. Iraq attacked Israel even though Israel was not involved in the hostilities.
Iraq supported, financially and logistically, terrorist organizations against Israel and openly admitted it while his own people were starving.

So basically Iraq was in a perpetual offensive war against just about everyone right up to 2003.


Iran:
I can only refer to the current regime (the Islamic regime). The Islamic revolution occurred in 1979, - 52 American embassy employees were held hostages for 444 days against international law. 4 million refugees escaped the islamic regime out of fear. 1980-1988 Iran was at war with Iraq. All the while Iran supported any Islamic group who attacked Israel even though Israel was never at war with Iran.
After Khomeini's death Iran seemed to ease off its extremism (although always retained it war stance against Israel - who was never at war with Iran).
Iran supported Islamic fighters wherever they existed (Afghanistan against the Soviets, Lebanon against Israel, France and the US, Sudan and now financing Syria's army.

Afghanistan:
A land full of warring tribes has been at war with each other for ages. 1933-1973 were actually the quietest times of Afghan history. After which again sectarian violence returned followed by the soviet invasion in the late 70s and more infighting after soviet withdraw following by the Taliban's brutally repressive regime.

JUST CAUSE YOU DON"T SEE IT IN THE NEWS DOESN'T MEAN THAT THESE COUNTRIES ARE PEACEFUL.

Well I would be a pretty pissed off Arab, if somebody stole my land 50 years ago, and that my Grandfather, my Father and I have lived and are living in a military occupation, which was accused by the UN with 65 (or 66) resolutions - none of them did not do anything.

Have you ever stopped to consider the possibility that the reason the Palestinian lost their land is because the imposed a war on Israel in 1948. Read this

And I - a Slovenian and a Former Yugoslavian - have seen many documentaries regarding Israeli-Palestine conflict, I have read many books about it and I have even talked to a few people from Israel and from Palestine, and I have pretty much clear picture about the situation there. Not to mention, that the US main-stream media is VERY influenced by the pro-zionist, pro-israeli lobbies, which really OWN Washington - and the same news about the same event is very, VERY different in Europe then in the States. But of course - you know best.

What you say here shows how little you know about Israel and the US. Had Israel OWNed Washington Jonathan Pollard would have been in Israel already, Israel would not have had to withdraw from any territory, Israel would not have sat quietly in the Gulf war (1991). Would not have to continue with the pretend world of 'dialog' with the Palestinians who, currently, have no true intention for peace with Israel.
You just showed me how much you DON'T know. All NEWs agencies are slanted toward their own political agendas. The US and Europe have their own political tendencies and they are all biased towards one of the sides. That is the nature of the game. Maybe your NEWS sources are slanted toward one side rather than the other. Ever stopped to consider it????

Funny how nobody asked WHY are these countries so not popular.

Answer lies here:

Steven Kull, Director of PIPA

"It appears that people around the world tend to look negatively on countries whose profile is marked by the pursuit of military power."

"This includes Israel and the US, which have recently used military force, and North Korea and Iran, who are perceived as trying to develop nuclear weapons."

"Countries that relate to the world primarily through soft power, like France and Japan and the EU in general, tend to be viewed positively."

Well that makes it pretty clear - Military powers are not very popular these days.

I wonder why not?

Let us see;

World view of United States role goes from bad to worse

The poll suggests that world citizens disapprove of the way the US government has handled all six of the foreign policy areas explored.

After the Iraq war (73% disapproval), majorities across the 25 countries also disapprove of US handling of Guantanamo detainees (67%), the Israeli-Hezbollah war (65%), Iran's nuclear programme (60%), global warming (56%), and North Korea's nuclear programme (54%).

GlobeScan president Doug Miller comments: "The US administration's recent decision to send more troops to Iraq is at odds with global public opinion that thinks the US military presence in the region provokes more conflict than it prevents. This policy is likely to further hurt America's image."

The World has Spoken.

All kinds of Military occupations are not popular among People of this Planet.

And neither are the Nuclear bombs.

So what do people want?

Maybe

PEACE?

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Sadaam supported international terrorist organizations. This included Al-Qaeida

An idiotic statement from an obvious ultranationalist. You claim to be informed. You are clearly not. Al Qaeda are religious extremists. Saddam was very much against the idea of religiously run states (one of the reasons for his animosity towards the style of governance in Tehran). Ironically, Saddam would have been a great ally against AQ, but hey, this isnt about AQ is it, it's a resource grab.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Maybe if you didn't fight the Palestinians for their homes you wouldn't have to worry about any wars.

Come now, you should be a "little" more balanced. The Islamic Middle Easterns have clearly made their voice heard about Israel. That they have no right to exist and do not want Israel there. There is no negotiating, that is just how they feel.

Now I do not like Israel at all, or the Middle East save their oil. But...you are way too biased. Instead of saying Israel should just sit there and the reason why the Islamic world hates them is because they are mean is uninformed.

Look at the times Israel was ATTACKED by its Arab neighbors.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Look at the times Israel was ATTACKED by its Arab neighbors.

The amount of times that Israels neighbors have attacked has nothing to do with the way it conducts itself towards innocent civilians of Palestine and Lebanon. I have never said that they should not exist. See if a right wing Israeli says the same about a Palestinian. In their minds there is no such thing as a Palestinian. Your description of how they treat human beings as being mean is an understatement. Just keep in mind 2 things: 1. They are the only country to have legalized torture, 2. They are the only country to have legalized the razing of houses. Meanness does not quite capture the right description for something like that.

Humm...i fail to see how the interviews done to 28,000 people from the 4.2 billion plus people in the world makes it a fact that most people have a negative rating against the U.S. when...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- More than a million illegal immigrants have slipped into the United States in the past few years, raising the total in the country to 7 million, the Immigration and Naturalization Service said Friday.

www.cnn.com...

and the above are the figures only of the "illegal immigrant", it is not taking in account the "hispanic" legal immigrants which amount to about 47 million, and that's without counting immigration from other countries....

New data released by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) show that in Fiscal Year (FY) 2005:
Lawful permanent immigration grew by 17 percent from FY 2004.
The number of people who adjusted their status to lawful permanent residence increased 26 percent, explaining much of the overall growth.
The level of newly arriving lawful permanent residents remained relatively steady.
Refugee admissions rose slightly from FY 2004, but remained below pre-9/11 levels.
The level of temporary visitors rebounded to near pre-9/11 levels.
Naturalizations increased by almost 13 percent from FY 2004.
Below is an overview of US immigration based on FY 2005 data released by the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Immigration Statistics in 2006.

www.migrationpolicy.org...

Humm.. i wonder what is more...28,000 people, or millions?.... tough choice.. anyone has a calculator to see if there is any difference between the numbers?....

Originally posted by Souljah

So it looks like, the world opinion of United States has gone from bad to worse; one citizen in two (49%) across all 25 countries polled now says the US is playing a mainly negative role in the world. And over two-thirds (68%) believe the US military presence in the Middle East provokes more conflict than it prevents and only 17% believe US troops there are a stabilising force.

[edit on 7/3/07 by Souljah]

This thread has been a crock from the get go...your headline points out Israel and Iran as the top 2 baddies...but yet your first paragraph is dedicated to bashing on the U.S....why dont you just openly state your feelings...instead of trying to veil them behind some headline...

Hell, Be a big boy and start a thread thats sole intent is to discredit the U.S....then at least you would be acting/posting in honesty.

And don't worry, us Americans can take it...

Oh and since we are all asking ourselves these honest qustions...ever asked yourself what the world would really be like without the U.S. and it's bully mentality...no, your Utopian vision is not what would have happened...you would be speaking a foreighn language right now...and you damn sure wouldn't be expressing your opinions openly.

Originally posted by deadbang

Hell, Be a big boy and start a thread thats sole intent is to discredit the U.S....then at least you would be acting/posting in honesty.

And don't worry, us Americans can take it...

If you say you can take it, then why make such an issue out of his critisism for the USA then? There are Americans who are not happy with how America is conducting itself now, so why should someone outside of America be any different especially when our actions wether here stateside or outside of our borders can affect millions of people everywhere. I think anyone/anywhere is entitled to his/her freedom of speech and that would include critics of The USA.

PieMan...Agreed 100%...Thats the cool thing about freedom of speech.
The things is, it's disingenuous to put up a headline that says one thing, and then launches into another...I simply said that a thread title should reflect at least the opening comments of the poster.

If Souljah so dislikes the U.S. and wants to vent that frustration...then start a thread with that intent...

just my opinion...I have absolutely no problem with a person stating there opinion...

There is a saying in the U.S. military...and yes I served..."I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it with my life!"

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

If you say you can take it, then why make such an issue out of his critisism for the USA then? There are Americans who are not happy with how America is conducting itself now, so why should someone outside of America be any different especially when our actions wether here stateside or outside of our borders can affect millions of people everywhere. I think anyone/anywhere is entitled to his/her freedom of speech and that would include critics of The USA.

Perhaps he/she is tired of some members turning every thread into a "let's bash and blame the United States"...

Some members turn every thread into a bashing contest and they blame everything on the United States...

That article by itself is a crock, since there are more people immigrating into the United States legally and illegally than the amount of people who were interviewed about their opinions about the U.S....

Originally posted by Muaddib
Perhaps he/she is tired of some members turning every thread into a "let's bash and blame the United States"...

Some members turn every thread into a bashing contest and they blame everything on the United States...

That article by itself is a crock, since there are more people immigrating into the United States legally and illegally than the amount of people who were interviewed about their opinions about the U.S....

Oh come on now. Have you looked in the newspaper lately? Our government has been rife with problems for the past several years. There hasn't been a day that there has not been some sort of propblem or corruption, so why should it be any different here on ATS as far as criticism goes.

I can't see how you would say that the article is a crock after seeing all these mass protests on TV throughout the world about our war in Iraq. Seriously man if you actually believe the poll to be rigged or that its a nonsense poll then you really need to have your vision checked. The same goes for all these delusional people who think that the Israeli responses are rigged or biased. Open your eyes and look around. Things are not rosie and everything is not ok. People everywhere are frustrated, angry and disgusted with all the death, torture and destruction and for what? A Mistake? Sorry just isn't going to cut it MuadDib

When it comes to WWII you have to credit America with helping, BUT Germanys down fall was itself. If they had finished off the British Isle and stopped for a bit before attacking Russia most of Europe would be Germany. I myself am American, yet i dislike many Americans. America has become a country that will interfere in anything that benifits itself, but will leave and let die anything that has no economic benifit.

Iraq was a massive mistake on so many diffrent aspects, that Bush and Cheney should be impeached. Even now more then ever before they come to the conclusion that they must invade Iran while they are in the area.

However, because most of Europe are Jew haters I am not suprised at all by that statistic that Isreal is in the top two.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN


The amount of times that Israels neighbors have attacked has nothing to do with the way it conducts itself towards innocent civilians of Palestine and Lebanon.

You basically said if Israel stops persecuting the Arabs, they wouldn't have as many wars as they do now. History has proven you wrong already. And you are just being very unbalanced. I know all about Israel, bla bla. I also know about what the Arabs do. Israel may have legalized those things, but they aren't the only ones who do them. (Even the US does them). And the Europeans are probably just fooling themselves if they think the EU wouldn't do it if they wanted info. Russia, China also does it. So what is your point about bringing up torture? Making it seem like Israel is the ONLY country that does such a thing.

Who gives a #? The world aint no popularity contest. I consider it a game for the position of top dog. Like it or not thats the way politics are in this world. I dont care if people in the world think lowly of the US, its my country, and I like it. We make mistakes but who doesnt screw up? The US, at this point maintains the status quo in many areas of the world. Think of South Korea and Taiwan for instance. In the Cold War, the US' presence maintined the status quo in Europe. If it werent for the US, the world things would be very different, and I imagine there would be many more conflicts, think of what the situation would be on the Korean penninsula if we left and withdrew our vow to aid SK? The world also looks to the US to help solve many of its problems due to our massive resources. Who else can fork over the massive ammounts of R&D funds. Not that the rest of the world doesnt do their part, they just dont have the means to do so as the US does. My point being, us Americans shouldnt give a # what anyone else thinks, and nothing against anyone else but if we stood inactive in the world they would be screaming bloody murder for our inaction. In my opinion were damned if we do and damned if we dont.

[edit on 3/7/2007 by ludaChris]

[edit on 3/7/2007 by ludaChris]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

You basically said if Israel stops persecuting the Arabs, they wouldn't have as many wars as they do now. History has proven you wrong already. And you are just being very unbalanced. I know all about Israel, bla bla. I also know about what the Arabs do. Israel may have legalized those things, but they aren't the only ones who do them. (Even the US does them). And the Europeans are probably just fooling themselves if they think the EU wouldn't do it if they wanted info. Russia, China also does it. So what is your point about bringing up torture? Making it seem like Israel is the ONLY country that does such a thing.

Ok so you said it yourself. Countries like China and Russia do those things. So pray tell what do we have in common then when people say we have common goals? Israel and the USA have nothing in common or so I would hope it to be but seems to be coming true lately. To be like Russia or China which are NOT Democracies? If all you have to compare to are negative things , well then just go ahead and call a spade a spade and not call it a club when its a spade.

How has history proven me wrong? We already know what Arabs have done. Its Israel that denies any wrong doing, even though everyone and their grandmother knows they do, yet they continue to deny and rewrite history a though they are always the victim. Its BS.


Here you go: Former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben-Ami and professor Norman Finklestein. The "past history" you say you claim to know isn't so accurate as you believe.

AMY GOODMAN: You have some very strong quotes in your book, of your own and quoting others, like Berl Katznelson, who is the main ideologue of the Labor movement, acknowledging that in the wake of the 1929 Arab riots, the Zionist enterprise as an enterprise of conquest. You also say, “The reality on the ground was that of an Arab community in a state of terror facing a ruthless Israeli army whose path to victory was paved not only by its exploits against the regular Arab armies, but also by the intimidation and at times atrocities and massacres it perpetrated against the civilian Arab community. A panic-stricken Arab community was uprooted under the impact of massacres that would be carved into the Arabs' monument of grief and hatred.” Explain that further.

SHLOMO BEN-AMI: Well, you see, there is a whole range of new historians that have gone into the sources of — the origins of the state of Israel, among them you mentioned Avi Shlaim, but there are many, many others that have exposed this evidence of what really went on on the ground. And I must from the very beginning say that the main difference between what they say and my vision of things is not the facts. The facts, they are absolutely correct in mentioning the facts and putting the record straight.

My view is that, but for Jesus Christ, everybody was born in sin, including nations. And the moral perspective of it is there, but at the same time it does not undermine, in my view, in my very modest view, the justification for the creation of a Jewish state, however tough the conditions and however immoral the consequences were for the Palestinians. You see, it is there that I tend to differ from the interpretation of the new historians. They have made an incredible contribution, a very, very important contribution to our understanding of the origins of the state of Israel, but at the same time, my view is that this is how — unfortunately, tragically, sadly — nations were born throughout history.

And our role, the role of this generation — this is why I came into politics and why I try to make my very modest contribution to the peace process — is that we need to bring an end to this injustice that has been done to the Palestinians. We need to draw a line between an Israeli state, a sovereign Palestinian state, and solve the best way we can the problem, by giving the necessary compensation to the refugees, by bringing back the refugees to the Palestinian state, no way to the state of Israel, not because it is immoral, but because it is not feasible, it is not possible. We need to act in a realistic way and see what are the conditions for a final peace deal. I believe that we came very, very close to that final peace deal. Unfortunately, we didn't make it. But we came very close in the year 2001.

www.democracynow.org...

AMY GOODMAN: Norman Finkelstein, you're author of the book Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History. Do you share the same narrative? Do you agree with what Shlomo Ben-Ami has put forward, the former Israeli Foreign Minister?

NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, I agree with the statement that there is very little dispute nowadays amongst serious historians and rational people about the facts. There is pretty much a consensus on what happened during what you can call the foundational period, from the first Zionist settlements at the end of the 19th century 'til 1948. There, there is pretty much of a consensus. And I think Mr. Ben-Ami, in his first 50 pages, accurately renders what that consensus is.

I would just add a couple of points he makes, but just to round out the picture. He starts out by saying that the central Zionist dilemma was they wanted to create a predominantly Jewish state in an area which was overwhelmingly not Jewish, and he cites the figure, I think 1906 there were 700,000 Arabs, 55,000 Jews, and even of those 55,000 Jews, only a handful were Zionists. So that's the dilemma. How do you create a Jewish state in area which is overwhelmingly not Jewish?

Now, the Israeli historian Benny Morris, at one point, he said there are only two ways you can resolve this dilemma. One, you can create what he called the South African way, that is, create a Jewish state and disenfranchise the indigenous population. That's one way. The second way is what he calls the way of transfer. That is, you kick the indigenous population out, basically what we did in North America.

Now, as Mr. Ben-Ami correctly points out, by the 1930s the Zionist movement had reached a consensus that the way to resolve the dilemma is the way of transfer. You throw the Palestinians out. You can't do that anytime, because there are moral problems and international problems. You have to wait for the right moment. And the right moment comes in 1948. Under the cover of war, you have the opportunity to expel the indigenous population.

I was kind of surprised that Mr. Ben-Ami goes beyond what many Israeli historians acknowledge. Someone like Benny Morris will say, "Yes, Palestinians were ethnically cleansed in 1948.” That's Benny Morris's expression. But he says it was an accident of war. There are wars, people get dispossessed. Mr. Ben-Ami, no, he will go further. He said you can see pretty clearly that they intended to expel the Palestinians. The opportunity came along, and they did so. Now, those are the facts.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Oh come on now. Have you looked in the newspaper lately? Our government has been rife with problems for the past several years. There hasn't been a day that there has not been some sort of propblem or corruption, so why should it be any different here on ATS as far as criticism goes.

Because in case you didn't notice even if you want to believe that article the United States is supposedly third... Iran and Israel are first in the hate list of those 28,000 people from 27 countries...

As another member said in another thread some members are not really interested in anything unless they can try to derail a thread to bash and blame the United States....

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Seriously man if you actually believe the poll to be rigged or that its a nonsense poll then you really need to have your vision checked.

I don't have to believe it... it certainly was rigged... In the past few years millions of people from several countries have come to the states illegally. Many even die trying to live and work in the United States, even after all the bad publicity and the mess ups...

If they hated the United States, those people would have stayed in Mexico, or Cuba, or China... and there are people from other countries wanting to come to the United States... so it is kind of hard to believe that "the opinion of 28,000 people surpases what the actions of millions tells us"....

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Open your eyes and look around. Things are not rosie and everything is not ok.

I never said they were.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
People everywhere are frustrated, angry and disgusted with all the death, torture and destruction and for what? A Mistake? Sorry just isn't going to cut it MuadDib

and millions everywhere are trying still to get to the United States, live and work here and even die trying to do those things in the United States... You are still trying to put blame on the United States... The regular citizens of Iraq wouldn't be suffering if "the terrorists/suicide bombers" were not trying to get control of the country...

Hatred for the United States is nothing new. In fact millions of people have hated/hate, while millions of others have loved/love the United States ever since the Declaration of Independence was signed....

The fact that you keep trying to change the discussion to blame and bash at the U.S. shows that you are also not interested about what this supposed article has to say. The U.S. is supposedly third in that list, while Iran and Israel are 1st and 2nd yet not you or the other members trying to use this to bash and blame at the U.S. have tried to discuss about Iran or Israel...



[edit on 7-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

I don't have to believe it... it certainly was rigged... In the past few years millions of people from several countries have come to the states illegally. Many even die trying to live and work in the United States, even after all the bad publicity and the mess ups...

If they hated the United States, those people would have stayed in Mexico, or Cuba, or China... and there are people from other countries wanting to come to the United States... so it is kind of hard to believe that "the opinion of 28,000 people surpases what the actions of millions tells us"....

Wait a second. What does the critisism of US policy have to do with the opportunities available to people if they come to the USA? I do not like the current policy or administration but that doesn't mean I want to leave the country. One has nothing to do with the other. People will still come here regardless of how they feel about the Administration or policies.

If the poll of 28,000 doesn't represent how people feel then why do thousands of people in other countries go to our embassies and protest? Why do people outside of this country even here on ATS have such a bad view of us. Have you looked around on the internet? Just look at comments on various forums, videos and other places where people are saying stuff about America, Iran, and Israel. I didn't need a poll to tell me these things.

and millions everywhere are trying still to get to the United States, live and work here and even die trying to do those things in the United States... You are still trying to put blame on the United States... The regular citizens of Iraq wouldn't be suffering if "the terrorists/suicide bombers" were not trying to get control of the country...

Again people will come here no matter what. As far as these terrorists and suicide bombers go,well, they weren't there before we made our "mistake"