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Originally posted by 11Bravo
Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
I know how Israelis, Americans and Arabs think.
You sound like God.
BBC
he American public also seems to have serious doubts about US foreign policy.
Majorities disapprove of how the US is handling the war in Iraq (57%) and global warming or climate change (54%), while numerous respondents disapprove of US treatment of detainees in Guantanamo and other prisons (50%) and its handling of Iran's nuclear programme (50%).
Views are divided on US handling of the war in Lebanon.
The one area that receives plurality endorsement is the US handling of North Korea's nuclear weapons programme (50%).
A majority of 53% of Americans say that the US military presence in the Middle East "provokes more conflict than it prevents," with just 33% saying that it is a stabilising force.
More broadly, a majority of Americans (57%) say that the US is having a mainly positive influence in the world. This is down from 63% a year ago and 71% two years ago.
Originally posted by Souljah
Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Tell me Souljah,
when you say 1% are extremists, from what study did you pick-up that statistic? Is it based on something or just a hunch.
Honestly - it is a Hunch, and usually my Hunch is 99% right.
And that is not just my opinion.
The numbers are actually much higher.
Funny how you try to put the higher numbers on Muslims only.
Why?
Are they some kind different then the rest of the World?
Idiots can be found ANYWHERE.
Of course all mainstream media are manipulating one way or another, but I can honestly say, that I have an entirely different picture of the situation in Israel then an American - and so do most of the countries in Europe.
Either brainwashed by Religion (which is the PERFECT weapon against the masses) - or brainwashed by Governments and their techniques of making the people afraid of something, they should not be.
It is a blessing to think with You own mind these days.
That is why you have Free Mind.
It is a Blessing and also a Curse.
Just as it is anything in this Life.
Originally posted by marg6043
Originally posted by 11Bravo
Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
I know how Israelis, Americans and Arabs think.
You sound like God.
No only sound like God . . . at least his God . . . but kind of arrogant to said that he knows what I think . . . as an American . . .
Judah . . .you have no idea what is going on my mind after reading your posts.
It seems that is you the one that have no idea how the rest of the world thinks, including Israelis that are against their own Government . . .
Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
It is too bad that you deceive yourself. I tried to explain to you that there is a difference between the citizens of a totalitarian state and a democratic state. The media in democratic state provides various views (although not always balanced) but totalitarian (and theocratic) states give only their own views. I provided evidence that there is much support for OBL and his extremism in the Arab/Muslim world but you refuse to SEE it. too bad.
Muslims are only different because their leadership holds them back from acquiring a spiritual level of modern times. In the eyes of a Muslim in the Arab states it is OK to blow up a bus full of children. That is unacceptable.
For example, a soccer championship for children in Tul Karem was named after a terrorist who blew himself up in a hotel where 30 senior citizens held a religious passover feast (source).
This is what the government of the Palestinian portrays as a positive thing and the people just flock and support it even through it is obviously a heinous crime - Source - See the relevant section related to this..
That is your view. Fact is that you do not know. You do not live here, you do not live the situation. I do not express my opinion about Yugoslavia, Bosnia or Serbia since I cannot know the complexities of the conflict. It is funny how people sit in their home, feel all high and mighty and from a distance post their views and opinions based on a very narrow prospective that they base on a biased media source. It really is quite pathetic.
Agreed. Lets agree that we will make an attempt to base our opinions on the same criteria. For example you say that their are many political action committees in the US that basically controls the US. I say that the Europeans and the US have vested interest in the Arabs in the form of Oil and their riches which, of course, is a source of economic strength that Israel does not have. Arab states wholeheartedly support the extremist Palestinian side of the conflict (right to return into Israel, compensation for Palestinians only + 1967 borders devoid of Jews - Which means 2 Palestinian states, the destruction of a Jewish state and the probably the continuation of sectarian violence) with all their financial and political might. Europeans tend to support this view as well (in their own 'nose-up-Ahmed's-ass' sort of way) and then Europeans (such as yourself) parrot Palestinian arguments against Israel even though it is the worst kind of solution available from the slew of choices. It is based on lies, inaccuracies and one-sided arguments.
Quite sad - Free mind - I think not!
Originally posted by Souljah
I love it how you always present your informaton in a manner, which makes anything Islamic or Muslim extremly BAD, in order to make a better picture of Israel.
1959 — 17 August USSR and Iraq wrote agreement about building atomic power station.
1968 — a Russian supplied IRT-2000 research reactor atomic power station together with a number of other facilities that could be used for radioisotope production was built nearby Baghdad. [2] [3]
1975 — Saddam Hussein arrived in Moscow in April. He asked about building advanced model of atomic power station. Moscow said Ok but under control International Atomic Energy Agency only. Iraq refused.
[www.fas.org... After 6 months Paris agreed to sell 72 kg of 93% Uranium and built the atomic power station without International Atomic Energy Agency control at a price of $3 billion.
In the early 1970s, Saddam Hussein ordered the creation of a clandestine nuclear weapons program.[4] Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs were assisted by a wide variety of firms and governments in the 1970s and 1980s. [5][6][7][8][9] As part of Project 922, German firms such as Karl Kobe helped build Iraqi chemical weapons facilities such as laboratories, bunkers, an administrative building, and first production buildings in the early 1980s under the cover of a pesticide plant. Other German firms sent 1,027 tons of precursors of mustard gas, sarin, tabun, and tear gasses in all. This work allowed Iraq to produce 150 tons of mustard agent and 60 tons of Tabun in 1983 and 1984 respectively, continuing throughout the decade. Five other German firms supplied equipment to manfacture botulin toxin and mycotoxin for germ warfare. In 1988, German engineers presented centrifuge data that helped Iraq expand its nuclear weapons program. Laboratory equipment and other information was provided, involving many German engineers. All told, 52% of Iraq's international chemical weapon equipment was of German origin. The State Establishment for Pesticide Production (SEPP) ordered culture media and incubators from Germany's Water Engineering Trading.[
France built Iraq’s Osirak nuclear reactor in the late 1970s. Israel claimed that Iraq was getting close to building nuclear weapons, and so bombed it in 1981. Later, a French company built a turnkey factory which helped make nuclear fuel. France also provided glass-lined reactors, tanks, vessels, and columns used for the production of chemical weapons. Around 21% of Iraq’s international chemical weapon equipment was French. Strains of dual-use biological material also helped advance Iraq’s biological warfare program.
Originally posted by marg6043
...............
It seems that is you the one that have no idea how the rest of the world thinks, including Israelis that are against their own Government . . .
Originally posted by Souljah
.............
But sadly your bag of tricks is not working on me. Kids with stones against tanks - that is Palestine against Israel. And people that decide to commit suicide on basis of their belifs, on basis of their anger and despair are a clear sign that something is terribly wrong in the country they are living don't you think? And I do not think that in the eyes of majority of Muslims it is OK to blow up buses - that is what YOU think of Muslims and Arabs. Which is kind of Sad. So what is the difference between a suicide bomber blowing up a bus, and an apache helicopter blowing up a bus? In the end, there are still dead innocent civilians.
Originally posted by Muaddib
Souljah...like always it is you who keeps coming up with "bags of tricks and lies"...
First of all, Palestinian children, and in fact all fundamentalist Islamic countries teach their people from childhood to hate Israel, and the west.
UN: Israel must stop discrimination against Arabs, Palestinians
By Reuters
The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination said Israel's security measures to ward off suicide bombings and other attacks must be re-calibrated to avoid discrimination against Arab Israelis or Palestinians living in Israeli-occupied lands such as the West Bank.
The committee specified that Israel should ease roadblocks and other restrictions on Palestinians and put a stop to settler violence and hate speech.
Its 18 independent experts, who examined the records of 13 countries at a four-week meeting in Geneva, also said Israel should cease building a barrier in and around the West Bank and ensure its various checkpoints and road closures do not reinforce segregation.
Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Muslims are only different because their leadership holds them back from acquiring a spiritual level of modern times. In the eyes of a Muslim in the Arab states it is OK to blow up a bus full of children. That is unacceptable.
[edit on 10/3/07 by JudahMaccabbi]
Originally posted by Muaddib
The thing is that you also try to claim, like always, that the Muslim Extremists only exist because of Israel and the U.S.... but you always ignore the fact that Islamic extremism has existed ever since the Muslims converted to Islam and decided to bring Islam to teh world by the sword....
You see, if Jesus Christ went around with a sword, beheading Muslims in caravans after they surrendered, took slave/wives which included little girls, and even broke the same laws that supposedly were dictated to him by divine forces..., and in the overall dictated to his followers that they have to kill Muslims if they love God, I would be saying the same thing of the Christian religion....
But in fact there is only one prophet who did these things and worse, and that was Mohammed...which accounts why so many Islamic extremists exist in the world today....
[edit on 10-3-2007 by Muaddib]
Originally posted by Muaddib
The united states did sell advanced computers and biological "samples" which the regime claimed were for medical research, whether the United States believed the claim of Saddam is another story, but the truth is that it was Russia, China, France, Italy, and Germany, among other European countries the ones who provided Iraq with tons uppon tons of chemical gases, and including the nuclear program for weapons development....
Iraq got seeds for bioweapons from U.S.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sent samples directly to several Iraqi sites that United Nations weapons inspectors determined were part of Saddam Hussein's biological weapons program, CDC and congressional records from the early 1990s show.
The CDC and a biological sample company, American Type Culture Collection, sent strains of all the germs Iraq used to make weapons, including anthrax, the bacteria that make botulinum toxin and the germs that cause gas gangrene, the records show. Iraq also got samples of other deadly pathogens, including West Nile virus.
"I don't think it would be accurate to say the United States government deliberately provided seed stocks to the Iraqis' biological weapons programs," said Jonathan Tucker, a former U.N. biological weapons inspector. "But they did deliver samples that Iraq said had a legitimate public health purpose, which I think was naive to believe, even at the time."
Made in the USA (Part II)
Iraq would never have developed its chemical-, biological- and nuclear-weapons program — or even its conventional missiles — without technology and material support supplied by a phalanx of American and international corporations. It also helped mightily that officials in the first Bush presidency – many of whom now work for George W. Bush – were willing to look the other way or directly assist Saddam Hussein’s regime.
Between 1985 and 1990, the U.S. government approved 771 licenses for exports of biological agents, high-tech equipment and military items to Iraq, reported Representative Sam Gejdenson (D-Connecticut) in 1991. Those exports were valued at $1.5 billion, said Gejdenson, who was the chairman of the House Subcommittee of the Foreign Affairs Committee at the time.
"The United States spent virtually an entire decade making sure that Saddam Hussein had almost whatever he wanted . . . We continued to approve this equipment until just weeks before Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait," declared, according to a Congressional transcript.
Gejdenson also told his subcommittee that the State Department refused to impose controls on the export of biological toxins to Iraq until 1989, even though it knew Hussein used chemical weapons against Iranian troops during the Iran-Iraq war as well as Kurdish civilians.
And, he added, the administration of the elder George Bush had lobbied, right up to "July 27, 1990 — six days before Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait," against a proposed House amendment that would have restricted agricultural credits to Iraq.
BTW, Al Qaeda supposedly means "The base", and it was created by Osama Bin Laden after the Russian troops left Afghanistan...
The struggle against terrorism cannot be won by military means
Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.
'Al-Qaeda' is a Manufactured Intelligence Front
During the second Palestinian Intifada, the Israeli intelligence tried to create an "Al-Qaeda" organization in the West Bank and and Gaza using the American know-how and experience gained creating Al-Qaeda and Mr. Osama bin Ladin. The Israeli Intelligence services were using the damaged Palestinians economy to lure in unaware Palestinian youths. They provided several Palestinians with machine guns and thousands of dollars to kill Israelis under the name of Al-Qaeda. When the game was discovered by the Palestinians intelligence, the Israelis scurried away and stopped their disgusting "Al-Qaeda" game with Palestinians. Only last week the media carried news of an Israeli (not Palestinian) arrested in the Phillipines for being a member of "Al-Qaeda".
Originally posted by Muaddib
First of all, Palestinian children, and in fact all fundamentalist Islamic countries teach their people from childhood to hate Israel, and the west. There are some among these children that as they grow up, they slowly realize what was done to them, and see the lies they have been fed since childhood, while for others it is too late because they are sent with bombs strapped to their chests to kill infidels and jewish people...
The main difference is that the Palestinian fundamentalists teach their children that strapping a bomb to their chest, and running towards israeli civilians or soldiers to kill them so they can become martyrs, is the ultimate goal they can accomplish,. and only in this way they will show that they love Allah and their family...
Truth about the Talmud
Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).
On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Brooklyn Rabbi Meir Kahane, who told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").
Meanwhile the Israelis don't strap their children with bombs...
The thing is that you also try to claim, like always, that the Muslim Extremists only exist because of Israel and the U.S.... but you always ignore the fact that Islamic extremism has existed ever since the Muslims converted to Islam and decided to bring Islam to teh world by the sword....
Islamic extremism has existed even before the United States or the present state of israel existed...
Souljah,
Originally posted by Souljah
So what exactly is the difference? So the people of Democratic Iraq are living in Peace today? They are not dying anymore, like in totalitarian regime of Saddam? And also people of Afganistan? They live in peace? Shall we go back a litlte bit and remember how "Democratic" regimes in South America were established - usually by bloody coups, militarya interventions and assassinations; which are all by the way definitions of terrorism. And frankly I do not think OBL even exists. But that is MY opinion.
Shall we go back a few pages and read a few paragraphs of mister Sharon's words? I know exactly what you think of People of Palestine and how you want to portray them here.
But sadly your bag of tricks is not working on me. Kids with stones against tanks - that is Palestine against Israel. And people that decide to commit suicide on basis of their belifs, on basis of their anger and despair are a clear sign that something is terribly wrong in the country they are living don't you think?
And I do not think that in the eyes of majority of Muslims it is OK to blow up buses - that is what YOU think of Muslims and Arabs. Which is kind of Sad.
So what is the difference between a suicide bomber blowing up a bus, and an apache helicopter blowing up a bus? In the end, there are still dead innocent civilians.
I live in Israel for the last 14 years I was raised in the States though, educated in the states up to my bachelor's degree. Graduate school I completed in Israel. Does that clarify things? Moreover, when I was in the states I used to listen to NEWS from Israel on whatever media was available (Shortwave, local programming and later cable).
If I understood correctly you are living in United States? So how do you know so much about Isreal if you are not there? How do you know so much about Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon - when you sit at your home in America and base your view and opibion on narrow perspective given to you by biased media sources? Oh, yes - that is only my problem, not yours. You seem to know everything, and as one member realized, you must be God. Moses right?
Israel gets so much support in billions of USD a year that they do not need any oil. How many billions were transferred from the States to Israel in all those years? How many tanks? How many apache helicopters? How many bombs, missiles? And yes, there are 1% extremists who actually want the destruction of Jewish state, but I do not think they speak for every Muslim living there. Most of them just want what every man wants = PEACE, WATER, FOOD, SHELTER. Do you now want that? If you would have one of those basic needs taken away, would you not get angry? Just as your extremly hateful view of Muslim People does not represent every Jew living in America. Probably just that extreme 1% of fundamenlaists and/or zionists, who always supported Israel and complete and utter destruction of every Arab or Muslim around it. Yet this kind of people are still in power in Israel, in America and they do control foreign policies of these two nations and they are responsible for military actions and they are responsible for breaking international laws and treaties and conventions. But they are also above the law, since money makes this world go around - and I am going to be very rude right now, but we all know who has most money...
Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Soujah,
BTW, Extremists are not in Power in Israel.
Originally posted by grover
......................
Second of all and more importantly have you ever read an intelligent and not a religiously politically slanted history of Islam? I doubt it. It is a matter of history that Muhammad was involved in a life or death struggle with the pagans of Mecca and it was war. Also that Islam converted people by the sword is a lie. For the first 100 years non-Arabs were forbidden to convert because they were taxed. In fact the only one's who were ever offered the choice of convert or die were the pagans.
Originally posted by grover
..............
First of Muslim means a follower of Muhammad or Islam, not a people. If you had wrote (since the Arabs converted to Islam) you would be correct.
...........
Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
I have heard your arguments long enough to know that you are an extremist.
You don't believe in OBL, that's your prerogative.
Were you referring to those fraudulent quotes posted in Anti-Israel and anti-Jewish sites?
Any idiot can see right through the fact that NO Israeli politician would ever say such a thing even if he means it because it would mean his immediate dismissal from Israeli politics.
"I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do." Ariel Sharon
“Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it means blowing up one or two synagogues here and there, I don't care.” -Ariel Sharon
I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger." -Ariel Sharon
"I don't mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. What you don't understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it." -Ariel Sharon
Incidentally CAMERA already clarified the story - here
(I know you do not like CAMERA. They serve the other side of the argument and your agenda doesn't concur.
Suicidal tendencies of the Palesintians have less to do with their anger and despair and more to do with the the teachings of their leadership.
It is not what I believe in - It is the cold hard FACTS that Palestinian Muslims think this way.
The Israeli's target the militants and on occasion kill, by mistake, civilians in close proximity.
Ohh yeah I forgot . . . I am barking up the wrong tree here - This is a conspiracy forum - The JEWS control the world. The Rothschilds own the world with their banking enterprises.
The wealth of the Gulf states is more than Israel can hope for.
Israel does not OWN Washington but does have influence.
I do not hate Islam.
Killing in the name of G-d is Bad.