Nancy Pelosi Backs Tuition Breaks for Illegal Aliens

I think it's wonderful what Pelosi is trying to do, of course there should be two riders added to this bill

1) the congress and senate takes an immediate 50% pay cut to help fund it
and
2) Hemp becomes legal to also help fund it.

I think it's only fair being as how they want "illegals" to get a higher education, we might as well make pot legal and tax it for funding, and seeing as how the congress and senate are going to be so generous with OUR money they should be willing to be just as generous with THEIRS, right? LMAo

( Obviously SOMEONE is High already, just to even entertain such and idea)

Originally posted by Azazelus

Thank you. That is all I was saying. But, be careful, I got reported for calling someone a racist....

You were reported for calling me a racist becausae that is exactly what you did. Apparently you think that acussing someone of "racism" does not equal being called a racist.

Originally posted by Azazelus

If all young people have a chance to get to college easier, then what is the problem?

How hard is it to read the part that I bolded in the original quote?

[edit on 21-2-2007 by Azazelus]

If you want ALL young people to "have a chance to get to college easier" even if they are ILLEGAL then YOU open YOUR wallet. Don't expect me to open mine.

Are you blinded by your racism? Or, can you simply not read and comprehend?

I asked the question to everyone that is so angry about the whole situation.

I didn't name you in particular.

You chose to take offense, oh well.

What is so hard about understanding, once again, that this is to benefit ALL YOUNG PEOPLE.

Is it our job to punish the child of an immigrant just because they were brought here, and went through the US Public School System? If anyone earns the right to a scholarship or grant due to good grades, then why penalize them for actions that they had no decision in? Would you rather them be on the streets commiting crimes, or going to school to learn?

If you are angry or believe that your child is not gaining the same chance, then I don't see how or why. If anyone gets good grades, and goes about it the correct way, anyone can go to college.

Furthermore, how much do you think actually comes out of your pocket? Even the miniscule amount that does is nothing in comparison to what we have spent putting money into politicians salaries, and a war that is a complete waste of resources.

Get over your "me-first" attitude. Not everything is about you. This country was founded on "WE the people," not "ME the person."

if this any indication, maybe we don't have anything to worry about

www.latimes.com...

external source

Statistics Versus Reality

The Civil Rights Project at Harvard University, in conjunction with UCLA, produced a controversial report last spring saying that official dropout statistics in California's largest school districts were shockingly out of sync with reality. The researchers found that only 48% of the L.A. Unified students who started ninth grade in 1999 graduated four years later. The district claims a graduation rate of 66%.

it doesn't say which ethnic group, or how many were illegals, but................

it SOUNDS like they are throwing money at a non-existent problem..................again

BTW, you have a right to get a high school diploma, if you can, no one said you have the "rights" to get a "degree"


[edit on 21-2-2007 by thedigirati]

Originally posted by Azazelus

Is it our job to punish the child of an immigrant just because they were brought here, and went through the US Public School System? If anyone earns the right to a scholarship or grant due to good grades, then why penalize them for actions that they had no decision in? Would you rather them be on the streets commiting crimes, or going to school to learn?

1) Their parents have indirectly punished them not us. If they went through the US school system then they have already been getting a free education. People with good grades should not be penalized, they can apply as an out of country applicant. They are already committing a crime if they are taking my tax dollars and not being taxed themselves in an equal way. If they weren't here in the first place then worrying about them being on the streets would not be a problem.

Just think if China told their people to go to the US illegally as soon as this bill was passed: DISCOUNT education and you don't even have to be a US citizen! They already are in our colleges and paying the full amount...now you are telling them that it's smarter to just sneak in? The Chinese would flood our colleges and probably keep out the same illegal hispanics that this bill is meant to help. Heck every country would send their students here illegally to take advantage of the discount instead of paying the full amount.

2) Everything is a miniscule amount when it comes to what individuals contribute to government projects...but that miniscule amount adds up to being a third of most people's income over the year. Of course I would agree that I'd rather give 10,000 kids a better education than 10,000 soldiers a trip to Iraq. But I don't want to give 10,000 illegal kids an education that they are not accountable for. Then another 10,000 will sneak in knowing that there is a free ride...now more of my miniscule amount is taken...and then another 100,000 kids hear the news and they enter illegally. Where does it stop? What kind of message are you sending? Americans are then being "taxed" by illegals. I don't get to vote for the illegals that come in so in essence this is "taxation without representation".

Instead of King Geroge in England taxing us and taking our money, an illegal is now taking our money...it was wrong then and it's still wrong today.

3) I've posted before in other threads that I really don't have a problem with giving illegals a break as long as every benefit we give them is in essence a "loan" and that they are responsible for still becoming a legal citizen. No college grants...a college loan seems fair to me. If they become citizens and showed an exemplary record during college then they could receive a partial "loan forgiveness" or post-grant to help keep them out of debt.

Illegals are human beings, I don't see them as "lesser"...but I don't see them as being equal to me as long as they don't pay every tax or are subject to every law that I am. I should not have my freedom and money taken away just because they broke the rules, but I am willing to give them a shot to enhance my country if they are willing to put in the sacrifices necessary...just as I would have to if I moved to another country.

The more illegals you allow in, the worse their lot will be. Supply and demand; if they are flooding the market with open border-cheap labor then they will be competing against other illegals. Wages will go down and they will have even less money to pay for things and more reasons to commit crimes.

Policies that give illegals "gifts" that others don't get is just opening a door to more problems down the road. I saw it growing up with the illegals abusing the welfare system. It just doesn't work. They should have an opportunity to better their lives, but they have to make the sacrifice-not us. This is what makes people value being an American. Climbing the mountain on your own is so much sweeter than having someone carry or fly you to the top. I'm willing to LOAN you the climbing gear and training, but you have to pay me back after you get to the top.

There are several things here that bother me:

1) Newsmax - does anyone have a source that is worth half a crap?

2) We need major immigration reform

3) We need to close the borders to stem the flow of illegal immigrants

4) We need to severely punish people who employ immigrants for lower wages - this only contributes to the problem. When I worked at Taco Bell when I was younger, we had immigration services in there all the time because they were notorious for hiring undocumented people for brief periods of time.

5) As for the illegal people who are already living here.....what is wrong with promoting cheaper education? So the people who have a problem with this seem to be advocating for millions of uneducated illegal aliens to be living here? Would this not cause far more problems?

6) As long as we keep doing business with companies that employ undocumented people, then we have no right to complain about the problem nor bitch when people who are WORKING THE JOBS THAT NO ONE ELSE WANTS need medical care or education.

7) As long as we keep employing undocumented people AND they pay taxes, then yes - they should be allowed to vote. I dont like the idea, but until we really fix the problem, that is what is fair.

8) Until we DEMAND change from our elected officials, no one in here should be complaining about this.

9) Dont attack the democrats over this, as the Bush administration has done jack squat to solve the border issue. We are jailing border patrol agents for god's sake for doing their jobs!!! The fact is, there are a lot of wealthy people who depend on cheap labor from undocumented workers - these are the ones we need to go after.

Originally posted by Azazelus

Get over your "me-first" attitude. Not everything is about you. This country was founded on "WE the people," not "ME the person."

You are right that our country was founde on we the people, but so far our government has gone all the way forgetting we the people and favoring the illegals.

Funny but it seems that everybody can lobby and buy politicians to further agendas that only benefit certain parties for profit gains while we the American people are the ones paying the taxes that our own government use to benefit those parties.

Our government is no longer for we the people, they are on their own devices, agendas and personal gain.

[edit on 22-2-2007 by marg6043]

Originally posted by LogansRun
There are several things here that bother me:

5) As for the illegal people who are already living here.....what is wrong with promoting cheaper education? So the people who have a problem with this seem to be advocating for millions of uneducated illegal aliens to be living here? Would this not cause far more problems?

6) As long as we keep doing business with companies that employ undocumented people, then we have no right to complain about the problem nor bitch when people who are WORKING THE JOBS THAT NO ONE ELSE WANTS need medical care or education.

7) As long as we keep employing undocumented people AND they pay taxes, then yes - they should be allowed to vote. I dont like the idea, but until we really fix the problem, that is what is fair.

8) Until we DEMAND change from our elected officials, no one in here should be complaining about this.

9) Dont attack the democrats over this, as the Bush administration has done jack squat to solve the border issue. We are jailing border patrol agents for god's sake for doing their jobs!!! The fact is, there are a lot of wealthy people who depend on cheap labor from undocumented workers - these are the ones we need to go after.

Those who are illegal have no legal right to be here in the first place. They need to be deported, not rewarded.

They are NOT working jobs that no one else wants. That is a lie. These illegal invaders steal millions of jobs from U.S. citizens and drive the wages down for everyone else because of supply/demand. When there are more supplies of labor then there is demand then the wages drop. Importing the illegal invaders only benefits the wealthy.

We (meaning everyone) are not employing these illegals. The wealthy are employing them. I would never employ an illegal invader, so do not blame me for this problem. Voting is a right of citizenship. Rights should not be obtainable by invading a country illegally and making demands.

The elected officials cannot be forced to meet demands to deport these illegals unless the officials actually want to do so. ALL of the officials want to give the illegal invaders amnesty and U.S. jobs that should be going to a U.S. citizen. None of those running for election want to get rid of the illegals. Demanding anything will not force a change. You can vote them out, but the next wealthy elites will want the illegals here as well. All of the politicians spout the lie that these illegals "work the jobs no one else wants to do."

Both the Democrats and Republicans want to give rights and privileges to these illegal invaders. That will never change.

www.vdare.com...

There are some on the web who claim that she has illegals working in her vineyards. I have no idea if that's true. I have seen nothing substantial on it. This is an article that discuss's Nancy Pelosi and illegals.

Originally posted by AHCivilE
Nancy Pelosi, You make me sick

pandering, apologist, socialist

Same here I met her once. It was scary. Her fake smile was chissled in and her face didn't move for a whole hour. Kinda like that Burger King mascot ... FRIGHTENING.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

The elected officials cannot be forced to meet demands to deport these illegals unless the officials actually want to do so. ALL of the officials want to give the illegal invaders amnesty and U.S. jobs that should be going to a U.S. citizen. None of those running for election want to get rid of the illegals. Demanding anything will not force a change. You can vote them out, but the next wealthy elites will want the illegals here as well. All of the politicians spout the lie that these illegals "work the jobs no one else wants to do."

Both the Democrats and Republicans want to give rights and privileges to these illegal invaders. That will never change.

And yet you want to blame illegal immigrants who, for the most part, are here to build a better life....isn't that the american dream?? Why are you blaming the people who are being exploited by the rich and wealthy?? LAst time I checked, we have the power to VOTE THEM OUT. The only people who are truly getting screwed are the illegal immigrants. Most of the people in this thread are guilty of typical American lazyness, treat the symptom and not the disease.

I have to say, some of the people commenting in this thread have made me ill, and those are the people who I usually agree with in other threads!!! Bottom line - human beings are being exploited by our leaders and the wealthy!!! Until we hold THEM accountable for this mess, nothing will happen. So let me ask this again:

Are the people who are agains't this advocating for millions of uneducated and undocumented people merging with our society, or should we at least try to choose the lesser of two evils and at least ensure they are educated. This issue goes beyond immigration, beyond health care, beyond politics. Everyone calls this a "liberal agenda" and I have seen the word socialist thrown around a few times too. If you dont like it, go after the people who allow it to happen!!!!!!!! Politicians and the rich!!!!!!!!! Dont blame people who come from poverty who are only looking for a better life. People seem to forget that most everyone in this country is on land that was taken from others that held it before. America is the melting pot, immigration is what makes this land so great. It makes me sick to hear people whine and not do one damn thing about it except call for the racist punishment of a group of people. Hypocrites.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
www.vdare.com...

There are some on the web who claim that she has illegals working in her vineyards. I have no idea if that's true. I have seen nothing substantial on it. This is an article that discuss's Nancy Pelosi and illegals.

Originally posted by AHCivilE
Nancy Pelosi, You make me sick

pandering, apologist, socialist

Same here

I met her once. It was scary. Her fake smile was chissled in and her face didn't move for a whole hour. Kinda like that Burger King mascot ... FRIGHTENING.

This is exactly the kind of crap my above post is referring to. Typical useless rhetoric, offering no kind of solution, only polarizing along political lines. I feel sorry for the both of you when you meet your maker.

Originally posted by LogansRun

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

The elected officials cannot be forced to meet demands to deport these illegals unless the officials actually want to do so. ALL of the officials want to give the illegal invaders amnesty and U.S. jobs that should be going to a U.S. citizen. None of those running for election want to get rid of the illegals. Demanding anything will not force a change. You can vote them out, but the next wealthy elites will want the illegals here as well. All of the politicians spout the lie that these illegals "work the jobs no one else wants to do."

Both the Democrats and Republicans want to give rights and privileges to these illegal invaders. That will never change.

And yet you want to blame illegal immigrants who, for the most part, are here to build a better life....isn't that the american dream?? Why are you blaming the people who are being exploited by the rich and wealthy?? LAst time I checked, we have the power to VOTE THEM OUT. The only people who are truly getting screwed are the illegal immigrants. Most of the people in this thread are guilty of typical American lazyness, treat the symptom and not the disease.

Yes, vote someone out. Who will take their place? Some politician who's just the same. You cannot vote out the mentality if they all have it. During the last election in my area, much of the offices only had ONE CANDIDATE running. Did we really have a choice?? The other offices with two candidates running wasn't much of a choice either. The candidates basically had the same platform. Where is the choice??

I would say that people who are unemployed and being denied employment through no fault of their own because the employers would prefer to hire illegals are "truly getting screwed." The innocent U.S. citizens who have their id stolen by these illegal invaders and have to spend thousands of dollars and years of time trying to fix the mess that the illegal invaders inflicted upon them.

"typical American" LAZINESS?

I worked my butt off in school, not that it mattered. I had 100 average in algebra for an entire school year. I learned English grammar. I would have graduated high school with honors with my grades. I graduated with honors from college. Does that matter to employers? Nope! They would rather hire illegals and tell me that I am "overqualified" for the jobs. Then they spout that BS lie about these illegals "doing the jobs Americans do not want to do." Well, I am an American and I wanted to do the jobs to get a paycheck. Therefore, it's not the truth. If it's not the truth then it is a lie.

I earned those jobs more than they have. I worked hard throughout school because I was lied to and promised "work hard, make good grade and you can get a job anywhere." I worked hard. I made good grades. When is society going to keep the promise that taxpayer employed teachers/government workers promised me? Why do they not have to be accountable for the lies they spout? I know I am not the only American who was lied to in this manner. Our hard work in school inflated schools' test scores. Our hard work made the schools look a little less than the failures which they are. Then we graduate college with good grades and large student loan debts (thanks to the increasing tuition costs) after being told that a college degree enhances earning potential just to find that the employers would rather hire these illegals who either know no or little English? More lies from people just wanting to get you deep in debt.

The whole lying system is the disease. Huge reason why I want to move out of this lousy country. I am tired of being labeled 'lazy' just because I am a white American even though I have proved that I am a hard worker throughout my school years. I am tired of everyone lying about me saying that I am unwilling to work a job just because employers would rather hire noncitizens. I cannot speak for the other unemployed low income citizens, but I know that if an employer ever hired me I would work my butt off just as I did throughout school. I cannot force someone to hire me instead of an illegal. I am lower class status. I have no power over the wealthy.

I have met many people in my shoes over the years. Many of them are wonderful, hardworking, loving people. Those of us that are being dehumanized in the media because we are U.S. citizens are the ones who are getting hosed. The illegals have jobs, taxpayer subsidized welfare, free education, and apparently near immunity from prosecution. They look like they're doing well to me.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
Yes, vote someone out. Who will take their place? Some politician who's just the same. You cannot vote out the mentality if they all have it. During the last election in my area, much of the offices only had ONE CANDIDATE running. Did we really have a choice?? The other offices with two candidates running wasn't much of a choice either. The candidates basically had the same platform. Where is the choice??

I agree with you on this, however that is not what the topic of this thread is about - that is a separate issue (actually part of a much larger, all encompassing issue - including illegal immigration that should be dealt with on a broader scale, not in this debate) - that being said, I totally agree with you here.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
I would say that people who are unemployed and being denied employment through no fault of their own because the employers would prefer to hire illegals are "truly getting screwed." The innocent U.S. citizens who have their id stolen by these illegal invaders and have to spend thousands of dollars and years of time trying to fix the mess that the illegal invaders inflicted upon them.

Um, what jobs are you referring to here? Fast food, lawn care, farm work?? Most illegal aliens are employed at the bottom of the barrel - if anything, high school kids might have to put in a couple more job apps. I feel VERY sorry for adults who are still competing for minimum wage jobs. Anyone can go down to McDonalds or Taco Bell and apply. What jobs are illegal aliens stealing exactly? Please tell me.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
"typical American" LAZINESS?

I worked my butt off in school, not that it mattered. I had 100 average in algebra for an entire school year. I learned English grammar. I would have graduated high school with honors with my grades. I graduated with honors from college. Does that matter to employers? Nope! They would rather hire illegals and tell me that I am "overqualified" for the jobs. Then they spout that BS lie about these illegals "doing the jobs Americans do not want to do." Well, I am an American and I wanted to do the jobs to get a paycheck. Therefore, it's not the truth. If it's not the truth then it is a lie.

Good, for you - you worked hard. I am proud of you. I worked hard too. The only jobs I have lost in my life were the ones I walked out on, was laid off due to down sizing, or lost it due to outsourcing. I went to college, and not ONE single job I have ever worked could you replace me with an uneducated, undocumented person. We live in a free market society. Perhaps you should aim a bit higher for a job. Again, what industry were you in that all the bad illegals kept you from getting employment - fast food? You worked your butt off to be in fast food?

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
I earned those jobs more than they have. I worked hard throughout school because I was lied to and promised "work hard, make good grade and you can get a job anywhere." I worked hard. I made good grades. When is society going to keep the promise that taxpayer employed teachers/government workers promised me? Why do they not have to be accountable for the lies they spout? I know I am not the only American who was lied to in this manner. Our hard work in school inflated schools' test scores. Our hard work made the schools look a little less than the failures which they are. Then we graduate college with good grades and large student loan debts (thanks to the increasing tuition costs) after being told that a college degree enhances earning potential just to find that the employers would rather hire these illegals who either know no or little English? More lies from people just wanting to get you deep in debt.

I was lied to as well, and was fed the same BS line and I too have student loan debts. Again, I ask you - what jobs are you prevented from having (with your college education) that an illegal alien can replace you at? Doesn't sound like a very important one....

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
The whole lying system is the disease. Huge reason why I want to move out of this lousy country. I am tired of being labeled 'lazy' just because I am a white American even though I have proved that I am a hard worker throughout my school years. I am tired of everyone lying about me saying that I am unwilling to work a job just because employers would rather hire noncitizens. I cannot speak for the other unemployed low income citizens, but I know that if an employer ever hired me I would work my butt off just as I did throughout school. I cannot force someone to hire me instead of an illegal. I am lower class status. I have no power over the wealthy.

Cry me a river - that is a cop out. Perhaps your attitude has something to do with it. Why should an employer hire you because you worked hard in school? Most of us have to work our way up from the bottom (me included) to show employers how "hard we work". Hell, I started in a file room copying files and now I manage a department in a mortgage bank. I am not overly rich nor successful by any means, but I make a decent living. An undocumented person couldn't touch the job I have - someone like you could however. You sound as though you have some angers deep down inside and you are desperate to take it out on a group of people - this case illegal aliens.

I was a friggin graphic design major and ended up in mortgages after the economy crashed. I dont blame illegal aliens, I blame the economy. What industry are you in again that all the illegals are taking jobs from?

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
I have met many people in my shoes over the years. Many of them are wonderful, hardworking, loving people. Those of us that are being dehumanized in the media because we are U.S. citizens are the ones who are getting hosed. The illegals have jobs, taxpayer subsidized welfare, free education, and apparently near immunity from prosecution. They look like they're doing well to me.

I dont agree with them having near immunity (or any immunity) from prosecution - that is complete crap & I agree with you 100% on that. What wellfare exactly do illegals have?? To my knowledge, you must be a us citizen or legal alien to qualify for wellfare. Do you have a link to show that undocumented people are getting wellfare?? And the jobs that illegal aliens have are mowing lawns and working fast food - I am sure there are exceptions to this, but the majority work the low end of the spectrum. Not only that, but do you think they make a living wage working below the minimum?? LOL, honestly?

Dont get me wrong, there are huge issues that need to be dealt with - problem is you are all blaming the wrong people. Only do business with companies that employ us citizens, and pay a fair living wage. If we boycotted the business that hired illegal aliens, then there wouldn't be any incentive to hire them would there? If companies stopped hiring illegal aliens, then there wouldn't be as much as a lure to come here illegally would there?

Logan what can a population do . . . when we have a political system that is corrupted, manipulated by corporate power and have the most wealthy lobbyist buying out their way into our laws to benefit the people they carter too. . .

Yes what can we do, but vote one politician out so another take its place and keeps the same agenda. . .

Yes we are a nation of democracy but the truth is that democracy is in the eye and hold of the ones in power.

We only have two main political parties that control the government . . . you are only allow to vote for one or the other and third parties have not chance against them . . .

That's what our nation has become. . .

Originally posted by LogansRun
Why are you blaming the people who are being exploited by the rich and wealthy??

Oh please. The people who come here illegally are expoiting middle class America. They are flooding hospitals and getting free medical care. They are getting free schooling. They make their money, don't pay taxes, and send the income back to Mexico instead of supporting the US economy. (1/5 of the Mexican workforce is working ILLEGALLY in America) They are exploiting us. Oh .. and the picture you paint of all illegals coming here 'for a better life' is bull. Ask the cops in L.A. what their crime rates are when it comes to illegals .... or is the truth of the situation too much for you to deal with honestly?

typiical American lazyness,

bigot

millions of uneducated and undocumented people merging with our society,

.. millions of uneducated and ILLEGAL people sucking the life out of our economy.

Typical useless rhetoric

Pointing out that Nancy Pelosi may be using illegals in her vineyards is not 'useless rhetoric.

I feel sorry for the both of you when you meet your maker.

:shk: grow up.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
Those who are illegal have no legal right to be here in the first place. They need to be deported, not rewarded.

Exactly. Millions of LEGAL immigrants have come here. My neighbor. My father-in-law. My daughter (adopted from Bolivia). My best friend and her entire family. LEGALLY. They followed the laws, which are in place for very good reasons. Economic and social reasons. Societies can only absorb just so many immigrants during a time period before there is a negative economic and social impact on the country. That's a fact. Middle class American tax payers are shouldering the burden of these millions of illegals. We are the ones being exploited, not the other way around.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
(1/5 of the Mexican workforce is working ILLEGALLY in America) They are exploiting us. Oh .. and the picture you paint of all illegals coming here 'for a better life' is bull. Ask the cops in L.A. what their crime rates are when it comes to illegals .... or is the truth of the situation too much for you to deal with honestly?

The cops in LA?? Thats funny. Please provide some statistics for your claims. And I didn't say ALL, I said most are coming here for a better life - show me proof of that being otherwise. What exactly are you afraid of in regard to jobs?? What jobs have they taken from you? You want to see crimerates?? Look at the US congress and the current administration for crimes being commited - this is a topic for another thread however.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Oh please.

The people who come here illegally are expoiting middle class America. They are flooding hospitals and getting free medical care. They are getting free schooling. They make their money, don't pay taxes, and send the income back to Mexico instead of supporting the US economy.

Oh, yes. Such huge dollar amounts are being sent out of the country. Sub wage earnings - most likely pennies to the dollar of what you earn. American businesses and rich people in the suburbs are the ones who are paying them illegally under the table. They are also not paying health care for their employees, nor are they paying social security nor employer taxes. THAT is where the real money is lost, not some piddly amount of money that someone might send back to their families in mexico. You want to address supporting the US economy, end corporate tax breaks. Punish the companies that exploit cheap labor - oh wait that would actually take work and accountability - something this country lost sight of long ago.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
bigot

Sit and spin hater. I have seen you in other threads you hypocrite, dont you EVER call me a bigot. You are really ignorant as I AM AN AMERICAN!
You know what? We ARE lazy. All we do is bitch and whine here about what we dont have when we have everything.

If you want the problem to change then attack the problem, NOT the symptom. Just incase you are too thick to get this, fix the problem by removing the incentive for people to come here illegally: i.e. punishing people who employ them illegally, make it more available for someone to come here legally. You live in the richest country on earth, you will NEVER know what it is to live in true poverty. The worst areas of the US dont even compare to some parts of mexico.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Pointing out that Nancy Pelosi may be using illegals in her vineyards is not 'useless rhetoric.

No it is attempting to polarize yet another thread with your hate filled political rhetoric. You yourself even said that you couldn't find a link to support it other than some hate filled conservative site that you linked.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Exactly. Millions of LEGAL immigrants have come here. My neighbor. My father-in-law. My daughter (adopted from Bolivia). My best friend and her entire family. LEGALLY. They followed the laws, which are in place for very good reasons. Economic and social reasons. Societies can only absorb just so many immigrants during a time period before there is a negative economic and social impact on the country. That's a fact. Middle class American tax payers are shouldering the burden of these millions of illegals. We are the ones being exploited, not the other way around.

If we rounded up all the illegal aliens and deported them tomorrow, the prices on many things would go up as companies would actually have to pay working wages. That means health benefits, minimum wage, social sec wages, the whole works. Our stock holders woulnd't approve of that now would they???? Their profits might take a beating.

I agree that illegals living here is straining the system - that is a fact. This move by Pelosi (for those of you that completely missed it) is an attempt to force the debate on this as there has been outcry for something to change - and nothing does.

Right here in oregon, the last republican candidate (who lost mind you) wanted to make it illegal for employers to pay minimum wage to illegal aliens NOT to make it illegal for them to be employed. Why would he do that? It turns out that he actually had illegal workers on his vinyard - that is correct - actual illegal workers, not some half baked political rumor as it is with Pelosi.

Originally posted by marg6043
Logan what can a population do . . . when we have a political system that is corrupted, manipulated by corporate power and have the most wealthy lobbyist buying out their way into our laws to benefit the people they carter too. . .

Yes what can we do, but vote one politician out so another take its place and keeps the same agenda. . .

Yes we are a nation of democracy but the truth is that democracy is in the eye and hold of the ones in power.

We only have two main political parties that control the government . . . you are only allow to vote for one or the other and third parties have not chance against them . . .

That's what our nation has become. . .

I fully agree here with what you typed here Marge. I agree with 99% of your views on ATS too, just not on this thread. I think that this problem is better dealt with the people who creat the opportunity for illegals, and not the illegals themselves. I work in a very wealty part of town, heavily conservative (Bush stickers on 90% of the SUV's here). You know who I see mowing lawns, cleaning buildings and doing all the manual labor?? Mexicans who dont speak a lick of english. I can guarantee that they are getting paid crap to do it too and these same rich people are the ones that complain how illegals are ruining our country and our economy. They are truly the problem.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

.....Middle class American tax payers are shouldering the burden of these millions of illegals. We are the ones being exploited, not the other way around.

I always find your posts quite amusing. Instead of proving a point that relates to the topic, you choose to criticize other's opinions, and inject your own political mudslinging.

As I asked earlier... How much of a monetary burden would it be out of your pocket for one child to receive a college education, regardless of if they were born in America, or brought here by there parents?

The answer...not much. Not to mention, this whole issue deals with alloting already budgeted money, not creating a new fund.

Again, it is funny to see some of you argue with your political blinders on. You resort to the same tactics that politicians do. Little do you realize that THEY are the evil entity in all of your problems, not whomever they try to paint as the scapegoat.

Believe it or not, we are all illegal immigrants. That is, unless you are a Native American. We see what happened to them, now don't we? Maybe karma is biting our rears.

Also....FlyersFan, this statement from an old thread pretty much sums up my opinion of how much YOUR opinion on the whole issue of taxpayer's money should be weighed.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

..I'm a stay at home mom who prays the rosary to end abortion.

Yes, I am sure you pay taxes....but I thought the following needed to be stated, as a hard working American citizen....

I have nothing against stay at home moms. I have nothing against those who pray. What I do take offense with, is that you feel your opinion should be weighed as much as the average American worker.

I work hard for what I earn every day. I am sure you work hard taking care of your kids and doing your own things. My point is, that maybe you shouldn't have a voice in how I spend my money.

I would much rather pay for a kid to go to college (even if they were living in Africa, as an African citizen, attending school in Africa), than put money into the war in Iraq, our politicians' pockets, or any other thing that wouldn't make the world a better place for everyone, no matter their gender, race, nationality, or religion.....