Incredible Cruelty and Today's Youth

After reading the following report, and sitting completely stunned by the incredible cruelty so evil that no words can do justice to it. I thought of the implications, and societal evolution. Today's family and especially parental control or involvement in the psychological development of today's youth. It seems to me, at least my perspective, that far too many children today are basically free to do as they wish, and when left to their own devices things like this can happen...

Brothers get 10 years for cooking puppy in oven (Link)

ATLANTA - Two teenage brothers each were sentenced to 10 years in prison for torturing a puppy by cooking it in an oven.

Joshua Moulder, 17, and Justin, 19, pleaded guilty in January to charges including burglary, criminal damage to property, terroristic threats and cruelty to children.

The brothers brought neighborhood children to see the dead puppy, then threatened to kill them if they reported it, prosecutors said.

Click the above article link and read the full report.

I can't help but wonder what motivates these teenagers to do something so cruel and evil.

Are the youth today so desensitized to violence from the media and even some video games that they have no conscience?

Where are the parents?

I know this is only one case, and perhaps (I hope) a rare one. However there are other recent stories of youngsters and teens who have committed heinous crimes.

Maybe this is normal, and it is only because of the news media that we hear about, or read about these stories.

I may be wrong, but I believe society bears some of the blame here. Today's youth could have too much freedom, and one day may be beyond any controls. Then again, this is a free country, and parents are free to let their children do as they wish until ultimately society has to step in and deal with the aftermath. Of course these could have just been very bad kids. Or were they?

i believe that television and movies are two of the main causes. the extreme violence over the last few decades that has been seen by the children and adults alike is causing serious problems...and people think im nuts because i wont let my 10 year old son watch the ungodly violence that is pumped into the mind by television. why do people not understand this? my son means too much to me. i will do everything in my power to not let this evil influence the mind of my child. dont get me wrong the visuals are overwhelming and he has already seen his share of violence in his 10 young years of life for a lifetime even with the filter i put on it. i explain the purpose and root of the violence and he understands. i see the positive that comes from him. extremely smart and mature and respectful and fun and full of life and love. he is a gift. hopefully many other parents sees this garbage for what it is and casts this evil as far away as they can from their household.





[edit on 9-2-2007 by Funkydung]

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
....

10 years in Prison. Good. I hope big bubba and his buddies give them a big welcome home.

What goes around comes around. I'm glad these psychos were actually caught and tried.

Originally posted by Funkydung
and people think im nuts because i wont let my 10 year old son watch the ungodly violence that is pumped into the mind by television.

Its not just TV. There have been countless studies showing TV violence does not influence children. Personally I think TV does have some issues but not anything near what some people claim.

In my opinion it's mostly the parents fault. Not 100% as some children are just mentally unstable but in most other cases it's a lack of good values in parenting skills. I think this to be true world wide as the overall morals of todays generation is pretty #ty.

Then again what do I know.

Its not just TV. There have been countless studies showing TV violence does not influence children. Personally I think TV does have some issues but not anything near what some people claim.

personally i wouldnt belive these people that do these studies as far as i can throw them. i mean come on, of course they are going to say that violence doesnt influence children....what? say again??! a constant stream of violent images will definatly influence the human mind. and what about a constant supply of extreme violence? it changes the way we think.

In my opinion it's mostly the parents fault. Not 100% as some children are just mentally unstable but in most other cases it's a lack of good values in parenting skills. I think this to be true world wide as the overall morals of todays generation is pretty #ty.

yeah your right. it is mostly the parents fault. the parents today dont know any better. they were raised on this very same path. violence. chop a human up with an ax entertainment. im telling ya the parents have been lead down the wrong road, on purpose i believe, and the children are following. the blind leading the blind. i dont mean to be a bringer of bad news but this isnt going to end up very good. it will take something to shake peoples reality(literally) for there to be a change and it will happen soon i think.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Funkydung]

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Today's youth could have too much freedom,

Scary words there! Are you American?
In a way I agree with you on some things.
I actually believe that this is a rare case, the puppy torturing.
Perhaps the boys got the idea of torture from all the gitmo and abu garab torture news last year? You never know huh?

I'm Just Sorry That You're All So Blind.........

This is not the youth of today, but a recurring theme of human history.

The human being is the most vicious killer on the planet, and our imaginations allow us to create any number of evil ways to destroy things.
That includes our environment, animals, and each other.

I've ceased to be surprised at the depths that our species will sink to, and with my age I think I'm starting to understand the herd mentality that lives within us all.

A perfectly sane man will join a riot if everyone else is doing it, and he thinks he won't be caught.

People will commit horrible crimes to maintain standing in a group they feel is beneficial to their survival.

Entire societies can be conditioned to think that killing someone of a different heritage or belief is acceptable.

And then we have the horny loner that will stalk and rape the innocent if the urge is strong enough, and if that urge overpowers any empathy they should have towards others.

The rules of society, for the most part, maintain some sanity amongst the masses, and I do believe that there are people that lack the ability to look beyond their own satisfaction. These would be the true psychopaths that get a sense of power or strength when they inflict pain, or are able to control those around them. But they are a very small minority that others, for some reason, will follow.

These two brothers probably felt very proud of themselves when they tortured an animal that had no way to fight back.
They felt strong and invincible.
They wanted to show off to their friends how powerful they were by killing this innocent animal.
Truly an act they thought worth bragging about, because if they didn't brag, they would never have been caught.

When I think of it, I've become quite disgusted with the nature of the beast.
And that beast is man.









[edit on 10/2/2007 by anxietydisorder]

I don't think anything is to blame except one potential serial killer and his loyal brother. Once in awhile these people are born who don't conceptualize right from wrong, and are completely unempathetic.

Is good they are going to prison. The psychopath will be figured out, and get treatment, and his loyal brohter will probably serve a much shorter sentence.

I just can't believe that t.v. and video games usurp the foundational wisdom of right and wrong. Desensitization? Sure, but not morally corrupting.

UM_Gazz

Are the youth today so desensitized to violence from the media and even some video games that they have no conscience?

I'm desensitized to violence, and I don't kill puppies (or people) for fun.

I don't know what their lives were like, up until this point, but some folks become so comfortable with violence and pain and even death that it stops impressing them, or scaring them, and if it ends there it's not so bad (I turned out alright), but it's one short step between confidence in the face of horror and a complete lack of respect for life; a willingness to commit violent acts for no good reason.

Look at the things people value in our society - money, posessions, fame, pleasure. That's not right...

I was reading just the other day, a survey of thousands of high school students. These kids were asked what they valued in life. ~90% of them said money. They wanted to be rich. Their goal in life was to be wealthy.

The article I read compared this recent survey to a similar one twenty or thirty years ago, and back then ~50% of the respondents said they wanted to have a meaningful understanding of the purpose of life, and wanted to be good people.



Now that's what I call a paradigm shift.

Where are the parents?

That's what I'd like to know.

I know this is only one case, and perhaps (I hope) a rare one. However there are other recent stories of youngsters and teens who have committed heinous crimes.

It's not rare, it's a goddamned epidemic from where I'm sitting. I read a lot of news stories, and I can't remember the last time I went a whole day without seeing some travesty involving a child/teenager and worthless parents.

Today's youth could have too much freedom, and one day may be beyond any controls. Then again, this is a free country, and parents are free to let their children do as they wish until ultimately society has to step in and deal with the aftermath. Of course these could have just been very bad kids. Or were they?

I do think children have too much freedom. Many parents don't seem to give a damn, they're too busy with work and friends and hobbies and drugs to pay attention to the kids.

And even if they could pay attention, what lessons do they have to teach? How to screw up and be worthless? How to value money higher than personal dignity and family integrity? How to lie and cheat and steal to get what you want?

It's a case of the blind leading the blind (or rather, the blind being too damn lazy to lead the blind). Even if the parents did their job, I suspect they'd do it rather poorly.

There are still good parents in this country, but they're few and far between it seems.

For every one parent who reads to their child from birth there are five or ten who use the telvision and the internet to babysit. For every one parent who teaches by example, there are a hundred who subscribe to the 'Do as I say, not as I do' method of parenting. And for every one parent who takes full responsibility for their child, there are thousands who want everyone else to do the work - they want the schools to teach their children how to read and write and act properly, and they want the police to discipline them.

Seems to me that we're caught in a downward spiral, because all of these little monsters are going to grow up and have kids of their own - and things will just keep getting worse.

People can change this, but I doubt if they'll put forth the necessary effort.

There was another story in the news recently about a mother who gave her teenager a firearm and instructed him to shoot another boy after a fight. :shk:

Ask any cop, and they'll tell you that violence over petty things is on the rise. Things like bad looks, spilled drinks, talking to a girl, fender-benders - people are killing each other over nonsense.

The survival of our species depends on our ability to kill.

I've been involved in the slaughter of countless chickens.

I've stunned cows so that I could slit their necks with a sharp knife and watched them spasm on a floor covered with blood. And I've hung those animals on hooks upside down so that they would bleed out.

I've bought calves at auction so that I could lock them in tiny pens and force feed them until they're large enough to take to market and be killed.

I've snapped the necks of rabbits with my bare hands and skinned them while they're still warm and have a heart beat.

And yes, I've killed puppies and kittens from unwanted litters.



I don't think a sane person can kill an animal for pleasure, and I felt compassion for every animal that I dispatched. When I kill, I try to do it in a way that causes the least amount of stress for the animal, and I always try to respect the dignity of that creature.

I've seen people that taunt and frighten animals coming in for slaughter, guys that seem to get pleasure out of inflicting as much pain as they can.
These type of people are mostly single guys that also have very poor social skills, and have problems getting or keeping relationships.
I can only imagine how they view the humans in their lives.

It's like they replace their inadequacies with some sort of perceived
dominance over the animals in their charge.
Animals that are controlled and pose no threat to them.

These guys will feed off the approval of one and other and try to impress each other by showing how cruel they can be.
And then they all go out to the bar after their shift and brag about how they tortured some poor creature worse than the other guy, and how funny it was to see an animal stagger around after they smashed its leg before it went to the kill floor.

A total loss of compassion for other life forms is a sickness, and as much as I've killed, I hope I never lose the pain I feel when I take a life.
I can't even imagine what a soldier goes through when he has to dispatch a member of his own species. I think that would be very hard.
But again, you see the herd mentality of men fighting a war that take pleasure in inflicting as much pain and suffering on the enemy as possible.

I've seen the bottom of humanity, and I hope it's true that the cream rises to the top. If not, we're all in a lot of trouble.








[edit on 10/2/2007 by anxietydisorder]

Excellent replies!

I suppose I am just old school, and draw my thinking a lot from the past, how I was raised, and how the majority of my generation acted. It seemed to me in my youth that everyone was more respectful, and tended to behave, most of the time. From my perspective that has changed in today's society. Many children as I said are for the most part free to do as they wish, watch what they want, and basically live life as they choose with little and in some cases no supervision. Is that totally a bad thing? I'm not 100% sure. Was it part of the reasons for the teens who killed the puppy? Again I am not sure.

I really wonder what ultimate effects today's society will have on the youth. What will it be like in 10-15 years?

Right now, my kids go to school and must go through security much like that found in airports, and they are now required to carry only clear plastic backpacks, They no longer have lockers in school, and must carry any and all books with them in their clear backpacks, which are subject to random searches at any time. All of that and there is still violence, and some teachers require security guards just to get to and from the parking lot in school. This all in a small (peaceful) town here in the southern USA.

I have personally observed parents who will leave their children at times for an entire weekend, and several nights during the week, to go out and "party" with friends. Again, what impact does this have? what influences are they exposed to?

I believe things have changed dramatically, and what will today's youthful generation be like when they have children? What kind of future parents will come from this environment?

Then again, there are still a lot of good kids out there, and it does inspire us, gives hope for the future, Most of all there are great parents who still value their life's lessons, and do really get involved in their Children's lives. That is even better cause to be hopeful for the future. It's just that these inspirational families seem to be fewer with each passing decade.

Only the passage of time will complete the story here. I choose to try to be hopeful, rather that focus on the bad, Mainly because the future belongs to my children, yours, and the world's.

Interesting thread and very diverse replies.

Serial killers often have a history of cruelty to animals and I would hope that the boys concerned will receive proper and intensive treatment, but I doubt that they will ever have normal feelings of compassion.

None of it is new, Jesse Pomeroy never had TV or access to violent literature, not did Carl Panzram.

Numerous forensic studies have shown that violent behaviour in adulthood and particularly a lack of compassion can be linked to very early childhood development (0 to 5 years) and babies who do not experience a nurturing and bond with their carer in the first few months are more likely to experience psychological problems later in life.

I feel that violent media has a much greater impact on the 'normal' majority. It takes much more for us to be outraged than it did our parents and grandparents.

Exposure to violent imagery will not turn someone into a violent human being unless there is already a deficit there. Look at the violence that young men in WW1 etc had to experience on a daily basis, it didn't turn them into killers in peace time.

The media conditions us to be less willing to understand and look at the wider the problem. I mean look at this way - prostitutes are murdered or disappear every day -we only get interested when a serial killer is mentioned but a puppy is news. I don't mean to diminish the horror of this crime but can you see what I mean?

I do think that society as a whole needs to look at the increase in violent crime and to the way that we raise our children. The breakdown of the extended family means that too many children fall through the gaps. Too many parents look to the education system to morally guide and instill discipline. Where is the community? We don't look out for each other, we don't support each other, we too often turn a blind eye.

The norms and values that form our upbringing allow us to make moral choices - not every abused child will become an abuser for instance - only when that child lived in a disfunctional environment will the abuse affect the way they react to situation as an adult.

I find it deeply sad that there are kids out there who are being brutalised everyday and that the only way they feel empowered is through the suffering of others.

There are no easy explanations or solutions. I think that if things continue as they are in the next generations there is going to be an increase in motiveless violence and that the percentage to population can only increase.

Look at the following stories, just a small cross-section of cases of child abuse. It's not just a question of the parents but where are all the adults?

www.crimelibrary.com...

www.crimelibrary.com...
www.crimelibrary.com...
news.bbc.co.uk...

Please forgive my slightly off topic comments here.

I'd like to offer some words of praise to KilgoreTrout for the above post. Which I must say is one of the best I've seen in a while. Very well thought out and well written. A very applause worthy post.

Thank you very much for a great read, and special thanks to ALL who have contributed to this discussion.


Carry on.

[edit on 10-2-2007 by UM_Gazz]

I actually felt sick whilst reading that, truly physically sick.

It is true that serial killers and psychopaths often have a history of cruelty to animals, not simple mistreatment but actual torture. What i kind worrying is the increasing amount of it all.

Around here last summer there were 4 cats hung from the goal posts at local schools. There was also that case on the news (think it went nationwide) where some teenagers threw a cat off of a building, then fetched it and threw it off again, 5 times.

Are we raising a society of psychopaths? A worrying thought.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Around here last summer there were 4 cats hung from the goal posts at local schools. There was also that case on the news (think it went nationwide) where some teenagers threw a cat off of a building, then fetched it and threw it off again, 5 times.

Are we raising a society of psychopaths? A worrying thought.

I know that this opinion has already pretty much been covered in the various responses to this thread, but no, we are not raising a society of psychopaths.

When this kind of stuff happens, it's upsetting. Not only because we think that the deed was terrible, but also because we recognize the ability to commit a similar act that is latent in ourselves.

When I was in high school, there was a kid I knew who tore the head off of a cat (it was dead at the time, if I remember correctly) and put the head facing up in one of the urinals on the second floor of the school.
People freaked out. Everyone from the other students to the administration to the lunch lady. Everyone thought that this kid, Tony, was going to end up turning our school into the next Columbine. But what it came down to once people got over their shock was that this kid was simply looking for attention, and afterwards he actually got some help.

I am not going to get into any kind of a debate about whether or not movies and television violence affect people, because I feel there are people who are much better at that debate than I am, but I will say that I think the media sensationalizes some stories, this one about the boys in Atlanta included. You know the old saying, "If it bleeds, it leads".

People have been killing senselessly for millions of years, just because we hear about it more often, doesn't mean we should worry.

UM_Gazz - thank you for your praise, it means a lot to me, the subject is something i feel passionate about and I'm pleased that that is reflected in my post.

In response to imaginaryreality1984. I feel that as society gets more and more complicated, when the majority of people start to feel disenfanchised we will continue to see people using violence as a means of expression and empowerment. The weak will prey on the weaker.

If I can illustrate my point with the following link from here in the UK;

news.bbc.co.uk...

The real sadness for me with a case like this is that Michael Hamer is a victim himself, he has committed a heinous crime yes and needs to be punished but we as society have let him down . Hamer is a tragic figure, struggling to understand himself and his impulses. He had no-one and felt weak. His life is now over, at 14 his life is finished. I feel as an adult responsible for that. His family failed him, his school failed him and in doing so they failed Joe Keeling and allowed him to die. It truly breaks my heart.

I don't know if you are aware of the Bulger case from the UK (two year old boy abducted and murdered by 2 ten year old boys), this case rocked the UK and created so much debate and hatred toward two ten year old children. But about ten years on nothing has changed and most probably it will happen again and again until perhaps it is so commonplace that we don't care.

Children killing children is the most worrying thing of all, if children feel the futility of life so keenly as to need to inflict suffering, on their weaker counterparts and/or animals, then how can we possibly hope for them to cope as adults.

As a parent it is particularly worrying - we have not only to worry about the dangers of stranger but also of classmates and friends.

Originally posted by Funkydung
i believe that television and movies are two of the main causes. the extreme violence over the last few decades that has been seen by the children and adults alike is causing serious problems...and people think im nuts because i wont let my 10 year old son watch the ungodly violence that is pumped into the mind by television. why do people not understand this? my son means too much to me. i will do everything in my power to not let this evil influence the mind of my child. dont get me wrong the visuals are overwhelming and he has already seen his share of violence in his 10 young years of life for a lifetime even with the filter i put on it. i explain the purpose and root of the violence and he understands. i see the positive that comes from him. extremely smart and mature and respectful and fun and full of life and love. he is a gift. hopefully many other parents sees this garbage for what it is and casts this evil as far away as they can from their household.
[edit on 9-2-2007 by Funkydung]

Hahahahahaha!

Poor kid, this guy is going to censor everything and then when he goes out into the world he won't know how to properly respond too it. Oh well, I love parenting.

This stuff has always been going on, it's not getting any better, but it's not getting any worse.

Originally posted by d1k
10 years in Prison. Good. I hope big bubba and his buddies give them a big welcome home.

Oh don't you worry, I've known real thugs and killers, and they don't take kindly to child or animal abuse.
Our dynamic duo is going to need an ample supply of buttplugs and AZT when they get out of the "jernt."

And maybe a robe and some broth, oh, and some drumsticks so they can play their own ribs.

No one can blame music,video games,or t.v for causing violence thesedays. Go back to the 50's. Limited tv shows,most of the ones kids watched were cowboys and indians. All the children were runnin around with their cap guns,pretending to rob banks and kill indians.

There has always been crazy people,who do the sort of things that these kids did. But you can't blame society as a whole for it. The middle ages: rape,beheading, murder,war. All common,and people saw it in real life all the time,not on a t.v. Look to the middle east. In certain countries people still get their hands cut off for stealing,and go to witness public executions. What we see on t.v is watered down.

You cant even show the caskets of the dead american soldiers coming home. You are limited to what can be shown of the war in iraq because of censors. Yet in vietnam,the public saw monks pour gasoline on themselves and light themselves on fire.

Todays youth is no different from the youth of the past, its just that now when psycho teens do psycho things a lot more people know about it now.

Originally posted by Johnmike

Originally posted by Funkydung
i believe that television and movies are two of the main causes. the extreme violence over the last few decades that has been seen by the children and adults alike is causing serious problems...and people think im nuts because i wont let my 10 year old son watch the ungodly violence that is pumped into the mind by television. why do people not understand this? my son means too much to me. i will do everything in my power to not let this evil influence the mind of my child. dont get me wrong the visuals are overwhelming and he has already seen his share of violence in his 10 young years of life for a lifetime even with the filter i put on it. i explain the purpose and root of the violence and he understands. i see the positive that comes from him. extremely smart and mature and respectful and fun and full of life and love. he is a gift. hopefully many other parents sees this garbage for what it is and casts this evil as far away as they can from their household.
[edit on 9-2-2007 by Funkydung]

Hahahahahaha!

Poor kid, this guy is going to censor everything and then when he goes out into the world he won't know how to properly respond too it. Oh well, I love parenting.

This stuff has always been going on, it's not getting any better, but it's not getting any worse.

if you let your child watch something like "the hills have eyes" then i really feel sorry for you and your child especially your child. this is a great example of the kind of people im talking about. and i never said i censor everything just the chopping up of the human being that "the real world" considers entertainment. as a matter of fact i am considering taking the tv out of the house completely. i believe that he will respond to life better without this junk. surely you dont think that a child cant handle real life if there is no television involved. yeah your right. gotta love parenting.











[edit on 10-2-2007 by Funkydung]