Living in the North American Union.

the following link, www.onenewsnow.com...
,is more info about the North American Union.

I can think of possible benfits:
1) Ease in the ability for citizens to move throughout the continent.
2) A greater resource base to feed industrial growth.
3) More unified presence on the World stage.
4) Frees up funds currently allocated for defense of boarders.
5) As populations intermix, communities meld, it erodes racism.

I can think of possible problems:
1) As travel is eased between countries, this makes it easier to transport and conduct business of the Black Market.
2) Rare and valuable land is trampled underfoot; Corporations find it easier to exploit remaining resources.
3) Weakens Military strength of current nations by mixing foriegn troops who do not share a common culture/world view.
4) Health care costs rocket as the population of underclass explodes.
5) People of racist worldviews grow desperate as nations erode, resulting in homegrown terrorism.

These are just a few pros and cons of the NAU. Anyone got some feedback?

American citizens losing their current constitutional rights in favor of a new constitution which limits freedoms. Losing the right to own a gun for self-protection. Massive poverty.

Wishful thinking that racism would erode. People have their hate and are too stubborn to let it go, especially with the propaganda supporting racism. There is nothing more beneficial that can happen with the introduction of this, imo. In fact, I could bet that a good majority of Canadians, Americans, and Mexicans oppose this union.

[edit on 5-2-2007 by DisappearCompletely]

As I said I do not know how many times on topics like these:
I DO NOT SUPPORT THE NAU!!! IT IS NOT TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE BUT THE TOP 1% OF THE USA!
If you want a TRUE union, a union of PEOPLE not for the purpose so the elite can extort people, alright I will help you make it happen. What I see now is the opposite, they push hate and malice towards ALL sides, they make it look like ALL Mexicans are crazed mafia controled gangsters here to kill all white, black, asian and native american peoples and any latino who does not agree. I met a teacher who was from an illegal immigrant family, he was in Panama and by no means is a wacko, he is saner than some I met at that school. What we have now is amplified racism, the media takes the bad apples then puts them in the news, tv, and on the radio, and makes a message spear that ALL of one race is like this. Of course people believe this and walk down the street in fear...
Want to stop racism? EDUCATE! Want to stop racism? PROVIDE! Want to stop racism? STOP DEMONIZING WHOLE RACES! I hope there will be a time in the worlds future where a racist asks a white, black, asian or latino on the street a question about what race they are and get the quick responce: I am a world citizen as are we all.
The NAU is just a way of allowing corporations to cross boarders without ANYONE stopping them, they also want it so as to break the back of America and Canada so as to prevent any higher and more deadlier forms of revolution and rebellion.
If you want an NAU create a constitution that provides freedom not limitations of the people, base it off of the original American constitution and update it to include ALL people, instead of ALL MEN say ALL PEOPLE are created equal.
If you want a NAU, then keep the boarders where they are and slowly work your way up the ladder of progress. Create jobs in all nations and elimiate problems bit by bit or as much as you can handle at any given time. Build all three nations up together so that a union will not degrade things but make them all FAR more powerfull when united. Create a currency based on a "credit" system, not a credit card mind you. Have a SET value for it throughout the to-be union, have all nations work their way up till they can handle that kind of value or untill that value is actually too low and must be increased. Example: One credit is worth two loaves of bread, well things work out better than expected so now 1 credit equals four loaves of bread. Create systems to enforce the economy not tear it down because one nation cannot keep up. If one cannot keep up then the other two should help them keep up. This is a "lean on me" type tactic, need help just say so, suck up your pride it will only get YOU and OTHERS killed or injured or in this case: outright destroyed.

You left out benefits such as;

Collapse of the U$D.

Sweat shop wages and hours.

Crazy new draconian laws, like CAFTA banning vitamins and supplements

Orwellian surveillance state

Unsecured borders allow for terrorists to sneak in and wreak havoc

MEXICAN TRUCK DRIVERS!!! Seriously, ever been to mexico? Man, there is nothing i want more than pollution spewing death traps barreling around our roads with piss poor trained drivers that are all hoped up on tequila and chronic.

You left out the drunks in the USA..... You left out the murders in the USA.... you forgot the KKK and neo-nazis..... ALSO! The boarders are non-existant already, and still nothing has blown up.... or been shot down... people are still murdered however that is domestic not foreign and has been going on for over 10 years.
Spoon1 your statement is racist towards mexicans, you ignored the fact that Americans shoot, stab, and run over there own people more than the Mexicans do.

I'll be honest, I hate Mexico. Now I feel for the Mexicans who want better lives and all, but I do not, under any circumstance, want to be combined with little more than a third world country. Canada is okay [I guess]. I wouldn't want to be one union with them or anything though.

Mexico is out of the question though. I would like to see the day that Americans accept a union with Mexico.

I notice alot of hostility towards Mexico. Not so much towards Canada.

I wonder if the NAU was just USA and Canada if the people would be more receptive?

How much does race play into our opinions towards it?

If Mexico was just another Canada, or maybe a Norway, if it would be easier to digest?

Personally, I don't care if it's Mexico, Canada, Iran, Cuba... or any other country. I for one am not willing to allow the U.S. Constitution to dissolve just so that the world elitists can come one step closer to their "one world union".



Any way they spin it... it's out of the question, and that has nothing to do with someone else's nationality. It's a matter of remaining a sovereign nation.

[edit on 2/6/2007 by Infoholic]

At some point this world must unite, and SOMEONE out there is going to do it either through Roman like imperialism and slaughter all who oppose them like the NWO people are now, or someone will strive to unite the world for a common goal to stop the fighting. Why? If the world never units as a one world nation the fighting will never end and this planet will be reduced to a smoldering crater slowly and painfully.
I, unlike you, do want to see a unifaction of the world, however I want to see it happen AFTER the elite and NWO people are dead and gone, they will only use it as a chance to further their power. Fear is all that stands in the way of people uniting right now, they are so scared of the other they refuse. That or they create reasons not to unite: your too poor, were not, so screw you, stay away. That is one I keep hearing on here and that is EXACTLY what it boils down too! Then we get the (like you Infoholic) people who say we loose our sovereinty and our constitution. BS! Why would the world unite as a people if they knew they had no rights? There are two kinds remember? NWO and a unifaction based around the people! Part of a unified world is to PROTECT people from anything that might want to harm them either it be elites or domestic.
How is a unified world made possible? By working together and getting each other out of the gutter thats how. Just stripping boarders will wipe us all out, however rebuilding the nations one by one or at the rate we can handle and after they are rebuilt and functioning THEN we unite. Why? At that point changing currency will not kill them, but help them. Think of what would happen if the USA rebuilt itself, then worked to help rebuild Mexico after getting rid of NAFTA, NWO and elites. Rebuild their economy, help them clean out their government (they want it, just look at the protests they had over the last "election") of corruption and build up their ability to be self sustaining but also be able to export things without destroying their country like Coca Cola is doing near the Chiapas.
Would Mexico be 3rd world if people helped them? No.... Would ANYONE be a 3rd world nation if people helped them? No.... not unless they WANTED it that way, and I do not know anyone who would honestly LIKE to live in a 3rd world nation.
Laws must also be changed, or I should say ADAPTED, create a constituion to grant freedoms for everyone, only change the wording from "americans" to "all people." Also as far as sovereinty goes, I doubt anyone would loose it, because I doubt a wise leader who ruled over more than one nation would have the time or want to for that matter, declare what you can and cannot do on a micro-managment level. I am someone who thinks that a union would work if nations kept part of their sovereinty, otherwise it would become rather impossible for the central government to work because it would have to micro-manage several nations at once. Keep the state system so people can function, keep your "presidents" so you can opperate your nation. However, you all answer to a higher power, a central government, they control things on a vast scale, they control the "international" laws and the like. Also foreign affairs, and things that affect the union as a whole not the "it will affect only this state or that state" type of problems, people are smart enough or SHOULD BE to handle that on their own.

Fear is all that is in your way, and fear is all you will ever know if you become blinded by it. Fear is what started WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and all the other wars. FEAR caused people to kill each other in the Crusades, during the dark ages in Europe. FEAR caused people to kill others for as long as we can recall. FEAR and nothing else. FEAR of not having something, FEAR of someone else for being different, FEAR can take many forms, shapes and sizes. FEAR can be controlled if you learn to control your own mind, if you let that fear run unchecked YOU shall fall and when you do it WILL harm someone else.
I say lets unite, however lets unite when the NWO, elites and corporationists are gone. Over 30,000 years of people blowing each others brains out and no one has learned anything, so I suggest you learn and fast unless you want another 30,000 years of this.

Originally posted by Infoholic
It's a matter of remaining a sovereign nation.

I'm in agreement, however I can think of one way in which an NAU would be acceptable to me. Both Canada and Mexico should be considered for statehood should they petition to do so and if they have popular support for this to happen in those countries.

If they don't want to become states, then that's ok too.

Read my above post carefully people.... Yeesh, let me say it again then: a central government that rules over several nations has better things to do than nit pick laws and regulations. So long as you adhere to the "overall law" system and do not violate it then what is the problem? A union would be there to prevent nations from pitting themselves against one another and to protect on a grander scale. Keep your laws for all I care, so long as they do not violate the Unions constitution of equality and freedom. Self governing would always exist on some level, because one area is different from another and has problems that are different from region to region, so leave it up to the people who live in that region to solve it unless it is severe.

i read the link provided,

what was mostly cited was the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SSP),
see www.spp.gov...


[someone's distilled the concept of this Partnership (SSP) into an exotic 'NAU' idea, .... as far as i can tell]



The 3 leaders of MEX-CAN-US, have identified emergency management,
pandemics, energy security, safe & secure 'gateways'....
protecting the environment, food supply, public health...

...and created a Council to address NorthAmerican Competiveness which
incorporates the private sector into this Prosperity Partnership




Since the USA is the big-dog on the porch,
i don't think that any constitutional rights will be lost
(other than what's been given away already in the form of treating undocumented aliens better than actual citizens)
but i do expect the Canadian & Mexican standards/regulations to get more in line with the USAs

take the issue of NorthAmerican safe-&-secure 'gateways';
the US already has contracted major seaport operations to be handled by a Chinese megacorp.
I expect Canada, Mexico to be pursuaded to utilize the same seaport handlers
as that corp, has been vetted by the Intel/CIA/FBI,
and are considered safe and trustworthy to handle the millions of shipping containers.

looking forward on the 'energy security' issue;
i expect most of the petroleum distribution will come under the direction & policies of the US.,
the drilling & production will remain with the private sector,
or the government as the case may be.
coal gassification, and coal liquefaction will come under a new development commission
(again using US direction & development rules)
the ethanol industry to be ramped up (ditto with the USA leadership)

in the overview, this 'partnership' will be leveraged to rake in business & profits for US industry
with trickle-down monies clinking in the trays of the Canadian and Mexican tills...
..rather than the doom-&-Gloom soverenty issues thrown out there,
which spins a fantanstic tale of 3 independent nations forming a new NAU entity....
the ongoing promotion of 'patriotism' would
seem to be a counter productive axiom,
if the near term goal is a dissolution of our nation
into a "committee of three" trans-national NAU with Mex & Can

The Mexcanus country will all be governed by a huge beauracacy that will use selective taxation to target the middle classes of all the countrys so that the upper 10% can continue to live in luxury while the middle class gradually decreases in economic strength and eventually becomes a "peasant" class completly dominated by the elite.

In other words Not much will change, except for the dissolution of culture.

Originally posted by Stewart Lewis
the following link, www.onenewsnow.com...
,is more info about the North American Union.

I can think of possible benfits:
1) Ease in the ability for citizens to move throughout the continent.
2) A greater resource base to feed industrial growth.
3) More unified presence on the World stage.
4) Frees up funds currently allocated for defense of boarders.
5) As populations intermix, communities meld, it erodes racism.

I can think of possible problems:
1) As travel is eased between countries, this makes it easier to transport and conduct business of the Black Market.
2) Rare and valuable land is trampled underfoot; Corporations find it easier to exploit remaining resources.
3) Weakens Military strength of current nations by mixing foriegn troops who do not share a common culture/world view.
4) Health care costs rocket as the population of underclass explodes.
5) People of racist worldviews grow desperate as nations erode, resulting in homegrown terrorism.

These are just a few pros and cons of the NAU. Anyone got some feedback?

OK, playing devil's advocate here, I will counter each point by number:
1) It won't be easier moving around the continent. We are going to be requiring everyone to show their passports when they leave/enter through all 3 counries.
2) Greater resource base: Problem is, Mexico is pretty poor with not alot of industry. To offset that, the U.S. citizens, with their taxes, are going to be required to pay into a fund for Mexico. This will be used to build infrastructure, secure jobs, create more industry and for a social security program for Mexico. How does this help Americans?
3)More unified presence on world stage - why is that important or helpful?
4) How does it free up funds? What funds are you talking about? We will soon be checking passports at all the borders, no jobs lost there. Also, any funds that may become freed up, will be offset by the "support Mexico" plan (abovd) to improve THEIR quality of life. Again, how does this help Americans?
5) Los Angeles and New York City have been very racially mixed for decades. It hasn't lessened racism at all, if anything, it's become worse.

All in all, I don't see one good thing happening from this.

BTW, the NAU and the SPP are the same thing. They've just changed the name so people don't freak out as much. For me, anything that negates or goes against our Constitution, is not a good thing.

Originally posted by Vekar
At some point this world must unite, and SOMEONE out there is going to do it either through Roman like imperialism and slaughter all who oppose them like the NWO people are now, or someone will strive to unite the world for a common goal to stop the fighting. Why? If the world never units as a one world nation the fighting will never end and this planet will be reduced to a smoldering crater slowly and painfully.

There is no reason why the world cannot coexist peacefully, continuing on as sovereign nations. I agree with your "demise of the world" ideal, however the terms set forth currently are more like the Roman imperialistic slaughtering.

Originally posted by Vekar
Then we get the (like you Infoholic) people who say we loose our sovereinty and our constitution. BS! Why would the world unite as a people if they knew they had no rights? There are two kinds remember? NWO and a unifaction based around the people! Part of a unified world is to PROTECT people from anything that might want to harm them either it be elites or domestic.

I would like to see the world unite, as well, just under terms set forth by the people, not the ruling elite. Nowhere in all times' existance has man offered by his own will the uniting of the world as we speak of. Only have the ruling elitists offered up the plan to "rule them all". Do you have any "proof" that you will keep those rights that you flamed me of? I'm willing to bet you don't. Unified by the people, as I already said would be one thing, however, that's never happened, and today we are faced with the plans/steps set forth by the ruling elitists. Should we say, "Well, we want to do that, but we're lazy to set it up, so let's take their way." :shk:

Originally posted by Vekar
How is a unified world made possible? By working together and getting each other out of the gutter thats how. Just stripping boarders will wipe us all out, however rebuilding the nations one by one or at the rate we can handle and after they are rebuilt and functioning THEN we unite. Why? At that point changing currency will not kill them, but help them. Think of what would happen if the USA rebuilt itself, then worked to help rebuild Mexico after getting rid of NAFTA, NWO and elites. Rebuild their economy, help them clean out their government (they want it, just look at the protests they had over the last "election") of corruption and build up their ability to be self sustaining but also be able to export things without destroying their country like Coca Cola is doing near the Chiapas.

I'm not an American citizen living under the guise that it's my lifelong goal to make certain that everyone else in the world lives as well as I do. America was founded under a principle of "All men (mankind) are created equal." That doesn't mean, "All mankind will live the same."

Originally posted by Vekar
Would Mexico be 3rd world if people helped them? No.... Would ANYONE be a 3rd world nation if people helped them? No.... not unless they WANTED it that way, and I do not know anyone who would honestly LIKE to live in a 3rd world nation.

There's a difference of not being a 3rd world country if people helped, as apposed to being forced to help, without your consent.

Originally posted by Vekar
Laws must also be changed, or I should say ADAPTED, create a constituion to grant freedoms for everyone, only change the wording from "americans" to "all people." Also as far as sovereinty goes, I doubt anyone would loose it, because I doubt a wise leader who ruled over more than one nation would have the time or want to for that matter, declare what you can and cannot do on a micro-managment level. I am someone who thinks that a union would work if nations kept part of their sovereinty, otherwise it would become rather impossible for the central government to work because it would have to micro-manage several nations at once. Keep the state system so people can function, keep your "presidents" so you can opperate your nation. However, you all answer to a higher power, a central government, they control things on a vast scale, they control the "international" laws and the like. Also foreign affairs, and things that affect the union as a whole not the "it will affect only this state or that state" type of problems, people are smart enough or SHOULD BE to handle that on their own.

That's a good idea for the future Constitution, but it's not going to happen that way. Besides, they are trying with all their might to tear down the Constitution now, as is. You doubt they would lose their sovereignty? What happens when you are no longer your "original sovereign nation"? You sure as the hell aren't sovereign any more.

Through this entry, sounds to me like you want everyone to be like the United States. Run that one past the Canadians. Hell, convince everyone across the globe of that.

Originally posted by Vekar
Fear is all that is in your way, and fear is all you will ever know if you become blinded by it. Fear is what started WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and all the other wars. FEAR caused people to kill each other in the Crusades, during the dark ages in Europe. FEAR caused people to kill others for as long as we can recall. FEAR and nothing else. FEAR of not having something, FEAR of someone else for being different, FEAR can take many forms, shapes and sizes. FEAR can be controlled if you learn to control your own mind, if you let that fear run unchecked YOU shall fall and when you do it WILL harm someone else.

Did fear stop the founding fathers from forming America? Did fear stop all those countless lives from protecting the freedoms and rights set forth by the Constitution, considering that's what they were fighting to protect (allegedly). That's the one thing that all military and governmental bodies swear an oath to uphold, not to demolish.

Originally posted by Vekar
I say lets unite, however lets unite when the NWO, elites and corporationists are gone. Over 30,000 years of people blowing each others brains out and no one has learned anything, so I suggest you learn and fast unless you want another 30,000 years of this.

They've been around for how long now?

I understand what you're trying to get at, Vekar, however, I'm afraid that's just not available in the deck of cards that we've been dealt.

Originally posted by Vekar
Read my above post carefully people.... Yeesh, let me say it again then: a central government that rules over several nations has better things to do than nit pick laws and regulations. So long as you adhere to the "overall law" system and do not violate it then what is the problem? A union would be there to prevent nations from pitting themselves against one another and to protect on a grander scale.

Better things to do than nit pick laws and regulations? Like what? If he has to "rule" (I see you like the Roman Empire theme) over such a vast community, don't you think it would be wise to know the laws that governs his/her people? If you agree, then don't you think he/she'll want to "nit pick" those laws to make it that much easier, not to mention give him/her more power?

Originally posted by Vekar
Keep your laws for all I care, so long as they do not violate the Unions constitution of equality and freedom. Self governing would always exist on some level, because one area is different from another and has problems that are different from region to region, so leave it up to the people who live in that region to solve it unless it is severe.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of joining and forming the "Union" in the first place?

Third post:
We have already argued this one, remember? About 2 months ago we got into this, but what the heck, lets rehash the whole thing!
Apparently you think they would be in it for total power... that is what the NWO people want.... ABSOLUTE UNQUESTIONING power over ALL not for good but for the darkest reasons. You keep adhering to their version, break away from that or else you will face 30,000 or so more years of total annihilation on planet Earth. Why on EARTH would a federation ruler want to nitpick road laws? Why on EARTH would they want to nitpick school regulations? LEAVE THAT UP TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE AREA! AS I SAID: So long as it does violate the federation/union laws then what is the problem? So long as your not making it ok to fly gang colors and allow kids to run around nude, why should they intervene? They have better things to do.
No it does not defeat the purpose, since when does has the federal gone after state road laws? 0 times. How many time have they gone after speed limit regulations? 0 times. You keep thinking along the lines of the NWO here again... get away from that... You keep going towards the: I would only do it for total power... big mistake...

Second post:
NWO again... you keep thinking NWO... You are not thinking along the lines of a union based to FIGHT NWO people who want to rule for the reason of money and power...
I would like to define soverigntity since you apparently do not know what it is:
THE ABILITY TO GOVERN ONESELF!
I have suggested you KEEP your ability to self govern, HOWEVER you are part of a grander ideal, a grander nation. Like I said before: why nitpick? Not even the federal USA nitpicks state soverientity. Like the USA? ARE YOU INSANE?! I would wish this system not even on my ENEMY! It is one of the MOST screwed up in the world, its based on pure double speak. At least in other nations dictators are OUTRIGHT about things!
I want nations to UNITE under ONE flag, whatever that may be one day... Be like the USA? NEVER! Be yourselves, non-conformity! Each nation is different and must be able to work with others despite that. Why? We are all the same down under: we want freedoms, the ability to live out our lives without interferance, equality, and to be treated as human beings not animals. Be yourselves however we all have set standards of equality laws, anti-sexism laws, religous tolerance laws, justice laws and freedom laws. Nothing wrong with being civilized is there?
Fear did not stop the founding fathers because they CONTROLLED their fear, they PUSHED IT ASSIDE and stood UNITED! What you are doing and others like you is let that fear abound, and that lead to what I named out, crusades, inquisitions, crusades, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Korea, THE COLD WAR and so on. The founding fathers PUSHED ASSIDE the fears and worked together to achieve and goal AND DID SO! If they had let fear abound YOU would not be here today nor anyone else.
Also you FAILED to realize the kind of fear I was talking about: racial, religion, and culteral. You spun off onto something else that I was NOT talking about! Crusades: religon and culture, WW1: government, WW2: racial, INQUISITION: religion, dark ages: cultural and religion, British imperialism: racial, and so on. You failed to realize this. This is the kind of fear you are abiding too right now, you need to stop any less you face 30,000 more years of blood and gore. Learn from history. People HAVE been able to unite despite cultural differances: South Africa, British imperialism combined with racial, cultural and religious problems. THEY UNITED! THEY ARE STILL HERE! They GOT RID of that fear and UNITED under one banner, white and black alike even AFTER apartheid tried to stop them even militarily.
We were delt a poor deck of cards, however the first round is the one VS. NWO. The second round will be different PENDING on what we do the FIRST round. Take one problem at a time when dealing with NWO and world unity, they are too strong to challange with only half of your power. Focus yourself on that first hand of cards and at least score against them, then pray for a better hand. That or throw away the cards and tackle them from accross the table. I suggest throwing the cards away and just tackling them, the cards we hold are the ones THEY selected and the game is THEIR game in THEIR home at THEIR table with THEIR rules. That is suicidal to say the least. Lets bring out our own deck and go for a new round, we can, we just have to WANT to.

First post:
Proof of keeping the laws I spoke of is based on how willing the people are to keep them. South Africa is an example of people WANTING those laws, India is an example! Those two are the most well known for people fighting for their rights, the government only goes so far, the rest is up to you. If you want proof that I would follow through with making sure the people had those rights if I was the ruler all I can offer you right now is my word, and at least that means something where I am. I offer you my word of honor, something that few offer, I offer it to you openly that I would protect the laws to keep people safe and free unlike what is seen and had now. If you want anything other than that, I would have to swear a blooth oath and that is rather hard to prove over the internet... However I would be willing to swear a blood oath on that, because I believe in it whole heartedly. Why can I offer nothing more? Because it has not happened yet, because I have no power over it yet, you cannot prove what has not happened yet.
I would hope that all humans get the chance at living without living in squallor like they are now. That is my point, to improve living for people, they may not want to live in a house with a picket fence like some americans want, and I have never met one for that matter... However they DO want to be able to live without being downtrodden, that is why we have so many wars against oppressors. The equality is what I spoke of, freedoms are what I spoke of, being able to live without being downtrodden is what I spoke of, everyone being the same is NOT what I spoke of. Do not twist that around, would YOU like to live like Americans (the top 5%)? Or not? I would not, I could not stand it, what DO I want? An apartment that is not $700 a month and takes 80% of my income right off the top continued next post...

Originally posted by Stewart Lewis
I notice alot of hostility towards Mexico. Not so much towards Canada.

I wonder if the NAU was just USA and Canada if the people would be more receptive?

How much does race play into our opinions towards it?

If Mexico was just another Canada, or maybe a Norway, if it would be easier to digest?

If Mexico was another wealthy country that had its people for the most part educated and speaking english well enough to be understood, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But it is dirty, crime infested, corrupt, poor, etc.

Not a country I want to be combined with.