Western culture reaches the archipelago off Guinea-Bissau

The influence of Christian/Western culture is reaching the last remote outposts of more traditional native cultures in the archipelago off Guinea-Bissau . The native tradition of women proposing marriage to a man with a plate of fish and providing a roof over his head, the foundations of there society is being questioned due to the influence of western/Christian culture.



Don't worry if you haven't heard of Guinea-Bissau I hadn't either till I read the article that is the source for this submission.

This is one of the more interesting stories that the media has picked up upon in recent times rather then just the same old news recycled. Western culture with its Christian heritage works for some people and places but it dosnt always have good influence on other cultures. Western culture hasn't exactly done any other native cultures any favours to say the least.

what will the natives gain from the increasing Christian influence ?
Nothing apart from the upheaval of there society.
women's rights could end up going backyards after all some historical in a Christian marriage the wife was nothing more then a bit of property owned by the husband.

Sure a man should be able decline a marriage proposal without dishonouring his family.
But who are we to tell them that ?
changes in society have to come from within. An example of this is womens rights in Western/Christian culture.

On a lighter note I like the idea of a women proposing to a man with a plate of fish.
I reckon a plate of Fish and Chips would be the way to go.
I'm sure that I and the other male members of ATS could think of some women they would like to get a plate of fish from.



[edit on 1-2-2007 by xpert11]

I have heard of the country.. their income is largely derived from the manufacture of very beautiful and elaborate stamps... I kid you not... a lot of small countries tap that market.
Be that as it may, nowhere do I see anything about a "Christian" influence, western perhaps, but not necessiarly Christian.

A woman proposing to a man with a plate of fish? Now that's a custom that I think ought to be adopted in the west. I think I'd be in love if a girl asked me out and gave me a plate of fish. Man I could go for some seafood.

I think their tradition is quite cute.

I don't know about you people but I was the one that choose my husband and I was the one that said it was time to get marry.

But I had no need of a fish on a plate

Things are no the way we may perceive, yes my husband to be did the traditional thing asking my father for my hand but I tell you I was the one that did everything else and still am the decision maker. . .

Don't tell my husband of 26 years that.

BTW we were married by Catholic tradition.

Grover you raise an interesting point about western culture and Christian culture being separate. While the question has relevancy it really deserves a thread of its own.
Surely the Protestant church is a Christian influence ?

what will the natives gain from the increasing Christian influence ?

Not for nothing but, if this is the first you've ever heard of them, then why even be concerned in the first place?

As far as what the natives can gain, I think its up to them to decide how they want to live their lives. No one culture is necessarily 'better' than the other, and that goes for native cultures too. If they formerly had women propose to men with a plate of fish, apparently it was only because they didnt' think that they had any choice on the matter. Now they do.

Besides, most often, when two cultures meet, they mix, not wash out the other one. They mix and you get a new culture with more influences and its own distinctness, nothing wrong with that.

Nygdan historically when western/Christian culture has influenced other cultures the results haven't been pretty. Native cultures often didn't know about alcohol and varouises(SP?) diseases the effects on the native peoples was devastating.

Native cultures didn't need money and other Western Influences until the white man came along. There is nothing wrong with the likes of money but when you impose another culture elsewhere great harm can be done.

As for two cultures mixing that often leads to the likes civil war and the new buz word factional violence. There is always the case of one of the cultures getting the raw end of the bargain.

I need to make a couple of things clear Im not saying that a civil war or some other conflict will take place in the islands nor am I saying that western/Christian influence is sole reason for Africa's problems.

Originally posted by xpert11
Nygdan historically when western/Christian culture has influenced other cultures the results haven't been pretty.

I wouldn't say that modern native american culture is 'ugly', or that santeria is 'ugly' or that we'd be better off without any of the carribean cultures and all that.

There is nothing wrong with the likes of money but when you impose another culture elsewhere great harm can be done.

Who is forcing them to not give fish?

As for two cultures mixing that often leads to the likes civil war and the new buz word factional violence.

I don't know where you'd get that idea, more often than not it leads to a synthesis of the different cultures. Different cultures have mixed throughout human history, its not going to stop now. Heck, that 'women giving fish to propose' culture might well be a mix of a 'fish for marriage' culture and a 'women decide who to marry' culture. Or even a matriarchical culture mixing with a culture that has a theology with a fish god, or a beleif that souls are like fish in the sea, etc etc.

I need to make a couple of things clear Im not saying that a civil war or some other conflict will take place in the islands nor am I saying that western/Christian influence is sole reason for Africa's problems.

Indeed. I'd agree that forcing christianity and the like on the rest of the world wasn't done too....nicely. BUt i don't think that because a culture is a mix of a traditional one and a newer one means that its somehow worse.
Heck, if the native americans hadn't been so traditional, they might've been able to repel the europeans and still be around in good numbers today, but they culturally 'stagnated' (in a sense anyway, but of course, its not like they were the same in the 1400s as they were in the stone age or something).

I know for sure if I was greeted by a woman at my door and the first thing I smelled was fish I can't say I'd be too inclined to marry her.

Terrible... I know.

Africa is the final take for the Christian invasion. It's only a matter of time before all of Africa is either Christian or Muslim.

Or French.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I wouldn't say that modern native american culture is 'ugly', or that santeria is 'ugly' or that we'd be better off without any of the carribean cultures and all that.

While American native culture isn't ugly the effects of western/christian culture were ugly as I outlined above.

Who is forcing them to not give fish?

Its true that no one is forcing them not to give them fish I guess the local people face choices about the future of there culture.

I don't know where you'd get that idea, more often than not it leads to a synthesis of the different cultures.

The Earth is far from a peaceful place religion/culture clashes are and have taken place thou out history.The Islam vs Christianity conflict springs to mind.

Some times its difficult to tell if such clashes take place within or between cultures. This is due to people clumping differnt groups of people together for example the term "Asians."

Your right about the cultures mixing you can see examples of this in other parts of the world where the likes nomads still roam but they wear jeans. I guess that I can only hope that you are right and that the integration of cultures will be peaceful.

Indeed. I'd agree that forcing christianity and the like on the rest of the world wasn't done too....nicely. BUt i don't think that because a culture is a mix of a traditional one and a newer one means that its somehow worse.

Well its better for some people a lot depends on the geographical location and ethnic make up of the people. I'm better off but I'm a product of western culture.
Are the American Indians better off then they were 400 years ago ?
Is it even fair to compare how the American Indians live today compared with the pre colonial time ?

Tibet had a stagnet culture but harm was only done when another culture the Chinese decided impose there culture and values on the people of Tibet. Although Tibet dose prove your point about people not being in a position to resist outside influences.


[edit on 1-2-2007 by xpert11]

[edit on 1-2-2007 by xpert11]

Originally posted by xpert11
Grover you raise an interesting point about western culture and Christian culture being separate. While the question has relevancy it really deserves a thread of its own.
Surely the Protestant church is a Christian influence ?

BUT...there is no mention in (at the very least in the portion quoted) in the article of Christianity at all, Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox.

It does say this in the original article"

[""When I get married it will be in a church, wearing a white dress and a veil," says 19-year-old Marisa de Pina, who strikes a modern pose under the blond grass of her family's hut, wearing tight Capri pants and sequined sandals.

She says the Protestant church she attends has taught her that it is men, not women, who should make the first move, and so she plans to wait for a man to approach her. To make her point, the teenager pops into her hut and returns holding a worn copy of the New Testament, its pages stuffed with Post-it notes, letters and business cards.

It's a decision that has caused strife inside the mud walls of her family's house."]

It also says that once the woman has made her choice men are helpless to say no.... Some things will never change.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by grover]

Grover your not making any sense how can you say that Christianity isnt mentioned when the section of the article you pointed out mentions the Protestant church ?

I quoted from the whole article...I was talking about your exerpt.