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surviving an EMP scenario

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posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 02:35 AM
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What kind of special plans need to be made for this possibility? Almost all motor vehicles will be rendered totally useless. And even devices like my shake-to-charge flashlight contain electronic circuits that would fry in an Electro-magnetic pulse.

I'm picturing a device set off by terrorists or an enemy state; something intended to affect a whole region or even an entire nation.

In the US, without motor vehicles, wide-spread starvation is practically a given. Farm equipment in the USA is dependent upon sophisticated electronics. Heck, even a basic tractor trailer rig would be ruined by an EMP. No food gets to market.

Worse than this, most gardening in America is done for aesthetics rather than for food. There aren't enough plots, tools or knowledge for most people to grow their own food, and no way to get seeds to gardeners, except by automobile.

So, and what items in your "Bug out bag" will be compromised by an EMP? And would you still try to go to refuge, if it meant going on foot?

Just curious for your input.

.




posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 02:42 AM
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Wouldn't it still be possible to use a car by hot wiring it? It wouldn't have working indicators or headlights, but it would presumably be possible to use it. I don't know how to do that, just an idea. Unless the engine is controlled by a computer, but older engines should work.



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 07:57 AM
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Ive given far to many hours over to EMP research and the biggest problem is nobody agree's Some scienest say that if you equiptment is off at the time of the pulses passing it will be fine. Others say no it will get fried regardles. still others say if its off and not pluged in and or no batteries in it at the time it will be fine.

I dont have the answer so what My family and I are doung is making a custom BOV. Using a chevy 350 engine ime making sure to make it the old way. no computers. I have extra parts lika the alternitator and extra lights stored in a faraday cage. So if were on the road while it happens we just put on the new parts and were back in business.

A faraday cage is the only known thing that ime aware of that if made right will defeat the EMP wave. things stored inside it will be safe.

If the terrorist really want to terrorise us Non nuclear EMP would be the way to do it. Easy to construct and very effactive. The united states would be knocked back to the stone age in one shot. Good things most of my survival geer isnt electrick. We would be wide open for invasion except for the fact most americans still carry. thats one of the things that keeps us safe, from invasion. were not an easy target



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 08:41 AM
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As far as the effects go, my guess is that it causes a field flux that passes through all conductors. If you can fry anything by touching it with static, then it'll get fried by even a low-level EMP.

Integrated circuits, the little black squares on an electronics panel that have a row of silver-colored pins coming from either side of them into the board, those will be fried. They are shipped with the pins stuck in a piece of plastic foam. The package has warnings not to touch the pins with your fingertips, since your own bio-static is enough to fry them.

Electronic devices that can handle big flux will still work. Lightning rods would still do their job. Plus they are grounded. I suspect that fully grounded equipment might fare better--the stuff in your house with 3 prongs instead of two. But not if it's full of integrated circuits. But a heating element should be fine. Toasters and hair dryers, at a distance from the source, ought to be OK in a mild static storm.

The trouble would be electric power plants, that use giant transformers to distribute power, and computers to control the network. Likewise, natural gas is run by a pipeline, that is remote-controlled via a cellular network. So don't expect any electricity or gas pressure; and many not for 6 weeks or so, while parts are shipped in from unnaffected areas.

I would expect an old chevy or diesel motor to run fine; but the battery might be noticeably drained, or even completely.

I was wondering about the old-fashioned mo-ped, the real kind where you pedal up to speed like a bike, and then switch over to a gasoline motor.

.



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 10:46 AM
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Dr. Static electricity and EMP are not at all alike. As a matter of fact thay are almost diameltrically opposite. EMP is most similar to RF energy. No one is exactly sure of what the effects would be (since no one is popping-off nukes to establish tests) and the body of knowledge is based upon 1960's atmospheric testing.

What they do suspect is that any long metal will act like antennae and 'collect' EMP. Transmission grid, phone system, metal structures and structural components, metallic plumbing, etc. will likely be affected (as well as anything attached or proximal to them). EMP is generated from a high-altitude burst (although even ground bursts will have limited EMP).



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 11:07 AM
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Actually, The US Military has EMP testing facilities which they use to verify that a system is "hardened" against EMP
Military EMP Research Facilities



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 11:07 AM
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Having your electronics survive an EMP blast would be difficult, but in the realm of possibility. If you knew an attack with an EMP burst was imminent, simply relocating all your necessary eletronics inside a Faraday Cage would leave them intact afterwards. The only problem is that you would be unable to use a cell phone or radio for outside communication..



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 05:08 PM
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I have constructed faraday cages to isolate an electrode from the 60 Mhz radiation of wiring in the walls. I used 5mm mesh, stapled to 1 x 2 " frames, forming a cage large enough to craw inside. The panels were wired together for conductivity across the entire cage. I think I grounded the cage to the plumbing pipes in the room.

How well would that sort of setup help? It was easy to construct, and passive: no electricity required.

On a smaller scale, what about a small metal box, like an ammo can from army surplus? Is that a faraday cage, or would it be if it were grounded?

for small electronics, how about layers of aluminum foil.

aluminum foil deflector beanies on the way . . . .



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

I have constructed faraday cages to isolate an electrode from the 60 Mhz radiation of wiring in the walls. I used 5mm mesh, stapled to 1 x 2 " frames, forming a cage large enough to craw inside. The panels were wired together for conductivity across the entire cage. I think I grounded the cage to the plumbing pipes in the room.


How well would that sort of setup help? It was easy to construct, and passive: no electricity required.


Pipes will work in a pinch but better to run a seperate ground rod directly into the ground. The object is to give the pulse some place to go as quickly and directly as possible. thats why you want it grounded to its own ground not a shared ground.



On a smaller scale, what about a small metal box, like an ammo can from army surplus? Is that a faraday cage, or would it be if it were grounded?


Yep a metal box of any kind will work just make sure the item inside isnt touching the metal of the box in any way. I layer mine inside with black linerless rubber splicing tape. On top of that I glue with sprey adhhesive a rubber matt that a friend who worked at a printing company gave me. Of course I make sure its properly grounded on its own ground rod.


for small electronics, how about layers of aluminum foil.

aluminum foil deflector beanies on the way . . . .


For small items I use a plastick soap dish or tupperware lined on the outside with foil and grounded on its own ground rod. The secret as I said above is to give the pulse a place to go ime a firm baleaver in When ever possible using a seperate ground rod for each item. I know it isnt always pratical or possible but I try non the less.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 06:04 PM
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If you plan on using a car, make sure it does not have electronic ignition. Better yet, go diesel. Electronic ignitions will fry in an EMP. According to readiness plans made during the Reagan years, local authorities were informed that they should have some diesel vehicles on hand just in case. Electronic ignition systems use IC chips that would prevent the vehicle from starting after an EMP. Diesel needs no ignition system, just compression.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 07:41 PM
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Yet some diesel systems use "glow plugs" instead of spark plugs; they must be warmed before the engine will crank, and that cranking is controlled by an electronic system, that is itself vulnerable, if an EMP can damage either batteries or the starter solenoid.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 08:02 PM
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There is some argument that the car itself will act as a faraday cage. Guess it depends on variables of the car. There are companies that, for an outrageous price, will set up your car or house to be impervious to EMP radiation. They also sell the basic materials needed for the handyman that likes to do it himself. Even the materials are expensive, though.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by whitewave
There is some argument that the car itself will act as a faraday cage. Guess it depends on variables of the car.


There are two problems with that. 1st motor mounts are made of metal and metal conducts electricty. The EMP pulse will follow any and all conductive paths. Electronicks are mounted on the engine, and metal firwalls hence becoming part of the path.
2nd a car is not grounded, faraday cages must be grounded to perform properly. A car is a closed system inless it is grounded the pulse will to a certain extent loop, feeding upon itself as the componets create there own electrial fields and those fields will in turn breakdown. As those fields break down they in turn create miner EMP pulses of there own.
Not my science here just what ive found in my research. and baleave me Ive spent far to many hours researching this pitulear aspect of survival.


There are companies that, for an outrageous price, will set up your car or house to be impervious to EMP radiation. They also sell the basic materials needed for the handyman that likes to do it himself. Even the materials are expensive, though.


Yep they are but most of there expensive materal can be had at the local hardware store for alot less. A little research and a little cash and a lot of elbow grease and your ready to ride the pulse.


Sorry bout the spelling ime in a hurry Ill correct it later.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 09:15 PM
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According to a government issued bulletin, a diesel vehicle will start after an EMP. The battery wont be effected. Glow plugs in diesel engines are only needed in cold weather. It is transistors and IC chips that you have to worry about. Electronic ignitions, as opposed to a coil, condenser, and distributor, will fail as it uses an IC chip. Older cars without electronic ignition will be OK. At least that's the info they issued in the Reagan years. It is also possible to start a diesel engine in cold weather without functioning glow plugs by warming the block or using fuel additives.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Terapin
Older cars without electronic ignition will be OK. At least that's the info they issued in the Reagan years. It is also possible to start a diesel engine in cold weather without functioning glow plugs by warming the block or using fuel additives.


Back in the Reagan years, most diesels weren't turbocharged. They didn't have EFI (electronic fuel injection), but relied on timing from a cam. New USA enviromental rules are phasing mechanical systems out in favor of computer controlled, more efficient turbo and injection systems.

(edit to add: )

When I worked in agriculture (15 years ago), we used petroleum ether, sprayed from an aerosol can into the air intake, to start tractors and other diesel engines on the farm. I wonder, if that product is illegal, since it would probably be usefull for making meth. The ether was a bit hard on the engine---you could hear it knock really loudly until the ether burnt away.

You were supposed to screw the can into a hole under the steering column, but that system got dirt in it. You usually stood outside the cab, and started the keys without actually sitting in the seat, so you could spray ether just after the engine cranked. Not exactly OSHA approved.

Man, I haven't even thought about that in like a decade or so.


[edit on 30-1-2007 by dr_strangecraft]



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 12:12 AM
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Interesting topic. I believe the White Sands Missile Range EMP Facility is where the mil tests effects of EMP on different devices. I believe you can rent out the emp "bomb" to conduct tests if you have the $$?


I seen a show on discovery called Future Weapons where they visited the place and got to watch the effects of EMP on a vehicle.

I have thought about this scenario a LOT. From what I gather a nuclear detonation high enough in our atmosphere would disable the entire U.S. Scary stuff.


As far as surviving an EMP... don't use a pacemaker!




- NSBiz



posted on Apr, 13 2007 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by Terapin
Older cars without electronic ignition will be OK. At least that's the info they issued in the Reagan years. It is also possible to start a diesel engine in cold weather without functioning glow plugs by warming the block or using fuel additives.


Snip...

(edit to add: )

When I worked in agriculture (15 years ago), we used petroleum ether, sprayed from an aerosol can into the air intake, to start tractors and other diesel engines on the farm. I wonder, if that product is illegal, since it would probably be useful for making meth. The ether was a bit hard on the engine---you could hear it knock really loudly until the ether burnt away.


The key to EMP is the capture area. The most venerable items would be things hooked up to the grid, antennas, or any long length of wire, or conductor, such as a pipe, even a buried pipe, and that is why it is a good idea to use a separate ground stake when grounding a Faraday cage.
As far as glow plugs go, there is not enough capture area to effect the glow plugs, altranator (maybe, just maybe the diodes, but I doubt it) or
starter. The main problem is IC chips, where even with a small capture area, you could have enough voltage to cause tunneling in the chip.
Also, if you don't have either to start your diesel, which is very hard on a diesel, you can just spray gas in the intake, and it will work fine, and is less harmful than using either.



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by angryamerican

There are two problems with that. 1st motor mounts are made of metal and metal conducts electricty.



Ummm, every motor mount I've ever seen is made of hard rubber so as to isolate the vibration of the engine from the vehicle frame. I really don't know how this would effect EMP vulnerability, I'm just sayin'....

Personally I use a big old microwave oven plugged in to a grounded outlet to keep an extra car CPU and EI in. Any thoughts about the effectiveness of this anyone?



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 09:45 PM
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As far as I know an EMP works by litterally cooking the components so they will not work. Thus I would say these modern electronics like computers and certain cars will not work at all. Older vehicles might take some work but they have a greater chance of surviving. The less electronic the less a chance of being fried.



posted on Jun, 29 2007 @ 02:15 AM
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Here is a very interesting link to actual testimony to Congress about EMP effects.

www.endtimesreport.com...

Report of the Commission to Assess the
Threat to the United States from
Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack

Report of the Commision



With all that has been reported recently about Iran, North Korea, Russia, and now Venezuala - this will most likely be the highest priority threat to this country.

Russia & Venezuela

Chávez hints at nuclear future for Venezuela




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