Im no expert but those b+w outlines show nothing for or against your argument. Im intrigued by the 4th astronaut theory that Mr. Lear seems to believe. If it is true then I highly doubt we'll ever know the truth. The consequences of the public knowing the government has gone further and knows more about the universe since before nasa would lead to an uprising.

On the same wikipedia article (taken with a grain of salt) it says:

The aft storage, compartment, behind the crew couches. This housed the 70 mm camera equipment, the astronaut’s garments, tool sets, storage bags, a fire extinguisher, CO2 absorbers, sleep restraint ropes, spacesuit maintenance kits, the 16mm camera equipment, and the contingency lunar sample container.

That seems to me like there could very well be enough room for a third if some of the equipment was left out. If they had a secret space program, maybe said program already had a foothold on the moon? And if they had a base on the moon, all of the equipment would not be necessary for the journey there, thus allowing Astoronaut #4 to squeeze in the backseat.

Originally posted by van001

My question is where was there room for a fourth?

Thanks for the post van001. The 4th astronaut did not go on a flight. He was there to help sort out the problems during the checkout procedure prior to launch.

In the book 'Apollo: The Race to the Moon', (Charles Murray & Catherine Bly Cox) A Touchstone Book ISBN 0-067-61101-1, Page 223 it states:

For Joe Shea, (Head of ASPO) the accident's irony achieved the dimension of tragedy. Consider the paradox in Shea's narrow escape, when only a techincal hitch kept him from being in the spacecraft during the fire. So lucky for him, its first seems, that they couldn't hook up the headset in time. So morbid of him, it first seems, to wish occasionally that he had been in the spacecraft after all. And yet if Shea had been in the spacecraft, he would have been sitting in the bay beneath the astronaut's couches-down beside the E.C.U. and the netting that probably first caught fire."

Beneath the astronaut's couches-down beside the E.C.U., is where one additional person lay to help in sorting out the glitches of pre-launch. One day it might be Shea, one day some other techncian. On the day of the fire it was one of the secret astronauts that lay in there helping to sort out the probelms.

The reason that the book states that they couldn't hook up the headset in time for Shea is to preclude anybody thinking there might have been a 4th person on board.

The 4th astronaut did not go on a flight. He was there to help sort out the problems during the checkout procedure prior to launch.

John, could you please explain the 4th guys purpose a bit more. I thought I remembered you saying before he was with the crew to make sure they did or saw nothing out of the ordinary when they got to the moon? Why would the secret astronaut program send a guy into the ship just to check for glitches before take off? Im assuming that the secret program used vehicles way more advanced than the Apollo program and since the Appollo computers were no more powerful than a childs gameboy, why would they even have interest in that sort of thing?

I'm only asking because you said you knew the guys identity so maybe you know a bit more on the nature of the secret program. Originally I thought you meant that the fourth guy went all the way to the moon with them, maybe to protect them from what he (and the others) already knew was up there. Why would they bother just checking for glitches, then just let them on their way? Were they actually programming the computers to keep them on a specific course? Could you just elaborate a little on what their involvement in Apollo really was?

Those wiki links are just for reference, but I am a little confused. What exactly is the meaning of the word "secret" here. If they are just checking for glitches why now let thier presence be known? And did they actualy go on the space flight or were they pulled out before the launch?

Originally posted by Chronic_Blaze

John, could you please explain the 4th guys purpose a bit more. I thought I remembered you saying before he was with the crew to make sure they did or saw nothing out of the ordinary when they got to the moon?

This is not a quote of mine and is incorrect. No secret astronaut did anything like that.

Why would the secret astronaut program send a guy into the ship just to check for glitches before take off?

Checking out an Apollo spacecraft was a long and arduous task. It took months. Apollo 1 was scheduled for launch in late February and it was already late January and much still had to be done. I don't know exactly what the 4th astronaut was in the Spacecraft for. My best guess it was for technical assistance on the anti-grav propulsion that was used in the Lunar Lander. (You don't think they descended out of a 60 mile orbit, landed on the moon, then took off and climbed back to a 60 mile orbit and then docked all with 22,000 pounds of fuel do you?)

Im assuming that the secret program used vehicles way more advanced than the Apollo program and since the Appollo computers were no more powerful than a childs gameboy, why would they even have interest in that sort of thing?

Please see above answer.

Even with the low gravity on the moon?

My dad brought home the 16mm films of the first lunar landing from Edwards, and we watched them in our living room, way back in '71, or thereabouts. I still remember asking my dad what that shimmering effect was as the LL landed and took off. He said it was heat waves from the rocket motors.

Could it have been an anti-grav field?

That gravity field would have to be pretty strong figuring the earth's gravity doesn't have that kind of pull.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Even with the low gravity on the moon?

The gravity on the moon averages 64% that of earths. The one sixth gravity that it is supposed to have is a myth. The reason for the myth is if it has 64% of earths gravity then it has an atmosphere and if it has an atmosphere then the sky is not black during the day. If that were to be the case then everything we have been told about the moon is a lie.

My dad brought home the 16mm films of the first lunar landing from Edwards, and we watched them in our living room, way back in '71, or thereabouts. I still remember asking my dad what that shimmering effect was as the LL landed and took off. He said it was heat waves from the rocket motors.

There was a rocket motor but is was for 'simulated effect' it realy didn't do that much. Look at the pictures below and around the lunar lander pads. There is not the slightest evidence of the use of a rocket motor.

Could it have been an anti-grav field?

Could have been. But I don't know for sure. Could have been heat shimmer from the rocket motor which may have been used for effect but not the true propulsion of the lunar lander.

Originally posted by van001
Those wiki links are just for reference, but I am a little confused. What exactly is the meaning of the word "secret" here. If they are just checking for glitches why now let thier presence be known? And did they actualy go on the space flight or were they pulled out before the launch?

The NASA 'secret' astronaut corps was formed about the same time as the astronauts that you and I know of. The difference was that the secret astronaut corps was flying to the moon and back in 1962 and to Mars in 1966 and throughout the solar system since then. Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Space Lab, the Shuttle and ISS are all cover projects for what is really going on. We go back and forth to the moon all day long every day. And lots of other places too.

The secret astronaut corps uses anti-gravity spacecraft that were developed by the U.S. in the late 50's. We have some amazing stuff out there.

The reason Gary McKinnen is being prosecuted so vigorously is that he accidentally found a link or links to the identification of those in the secret astronaut corps.

Remember when Spirit Rover accumulated dust on its solar panels and its batteries could not charge? And then remember a 'miraculous' storm came by and 'cleaned' the solar panels and then it worked fine?

That was not a 'miraculous' storm. That was a team from the secret astronaut corps with some windex and bounty paper towels. The 'miraculous' storm was just was just more "incredible explanations from NASA" for the general public who don't have time to really think about it.

That is another thing that struck me about the film. You would expect the rocket blast to blow-out the soil around the base of the LL, but it didn't. There was no evidence of the rocket blast disturbing the soil beneath the lander on landing or takeoff.

So, we've had not only a secret astronaut program, but a whole other secret space program based on anti-grav propulsion all along. It goes all the way back to the PX, doesn't it?

What do you make of the claims of Preston Nichols and Al Beilek/Ed Cameron? The dimensional rift and all that Montauk stuff. A diversion?

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
What do you make of the claims of Preston Nichols and Al Beilek/Ed Cameron? The dimensional rift and all that Montauk stuff. A diversion?

I don't belive the Nichols and Bielek story. Montauk was certainly real and continues to be a place of interest.

Originally posted by johnlear

The NASA 'secret' astronaut corps was formed about the same time as the astronauts that you and I know of. The difference was that the secret astronaut corps was flying to the moon and back in 1962 and to Mars in 1966 and throughout the solar system since then. Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Space Lab, the Shuttle and ISS are all cover projects for what is really going on. We go back and forth to the moon all day long every day.

John,

I was wondering if you could point me to any references of this, as I am very interested in the space exploration scene and would like to learn more about the base on the moon and the base on Mars.

Another thing, just out of curiosity, why haven't we seen the effects of anti-grav technology filtering down into everyday life?

Originally posted by AussieNutter
I was wondering if you could point me to any references of this, as I am very interested in the space exploration scene and would like to learn more about the base on the moon and the base on Mars.

Try www.thelivingmoon.com.

Another thing, just out of curiosity, why haven't we seen the effects of anti-grav technology filtering down into everyday life?

Anti-grav will not filter down to us for many years. It can be seen in the skys as saucers and triangles and wedge shaped vehicles that come out of various 'skunk' works operations. the B-2 has some form of anti-grav as probably does the F-22.

John

Thanks for the incredible information you provide. I don't think anyone has an idea how technologically advanced the military-industrial complex is and by deliberate compartmentalization, only the people at the top know the truth.

I was referring to Preston Nichols' claims that he used the Montauk Chair to go to Mars and witnessed ancient artifacts in subterranean caverns. I found that pretty hard to swallow, as well.

Montauk may have a lot to do with the HAARP applications of the PX. I get the impression the secret space program utilized the anti-grav applications.