PAK-FA Officially Russian-Indian Joint Project!

Russia and India have officially decided to make the PAK-FA a joint program.

External Source

After six years of negotiations on jointly developing an advanced fifth generation fighter aircraft with stealth features, New Delhi and Moscow today reached an agreement at a meeting of their Defence Ministers.

Also, it's promised to fly by 2009. AWESOME!

Fronted by Sukhoi Design Bureau, the PAK-FA will give both countries a distinct leap in fighter technology — the Russians have promised a first flight as early as 2009, and are open to a BrahMos-style model for development with New Delhi.

And, unlike current Su-47 and MiG 1.44 designs, it's going to be produced. In large numbers, too .

In the next decade, the fighter will be produced in large numbers to replace legacy fighters in both countries’ air forces, including MiG-29s, Jaguars and Mirage-2000s.

Looks good, I hope to see a prototype coming up soon

Full Article

[edit on 1/25/2007 by Darkpr0]

Note interestingly its the Sukhoi one(PAK-FA) India's now supposedly choosing and not the MiG2000i that was supposed to be the initial Indian preference.
The PAK-FA is supposed to be more of F-22 pedigree while the MiG2000i was more F-35ish I think.
lets wait for more on this..

EDIT:

image from site: ( Thats an f-22 )

[edit on 26-1-2007 by Daedalus3]

I'm really looking forward to the roll-out of this plane. I can't wait to see what Sukhoi manage to come up with by combining the Su-47 and MiG 1.44.

Does anyone know when te projected roll-out is?

So the new date is 2009? It keeps moving, I'd like to think this is not entirely baseless but I'm still somewhat dubious of that 2009 date, and the whole "large" numbers bit. But then again, who knows...

Well first flights dont count for much, but I forsee a FOC before 2020 if everything goes ok. As the Russians said they've already invested a few years in this program and it is already on the roll. The issue was whether the Indians wanted on board or not(and hence the adequate financing).

Maybe India should now relegate the Tejas to the role of 'technology demonstrator' and put it down to experience as a learning exercise? Then they can focus all their resources into this project with Russia?

Maybe, but then the Tejas(or any equivalent) is required in an operational capapcity by 2010 latest with fleets of MiG21s waiting to be retired.
As I said this PAK-FA is only probably going to be operational after 2015 earliest.

EDIT: Again I doubt this would happen because there's just so much riding on the operationalisation of the LCA; even in small numbers(20-40).
We'll have to wait and watch.

[edit on 27-1-2007 by Daedalus3]

Since Sweden has halved its front line force of Gripens do you think that India might be better off leasing the spare 100 or so instead?

Finally after so many months of speculation, the russian prez himself came down to India to seal the deal.

IMHO the Tejas project is in a too highly advanced stage to contemplate its termination.

But one thing that comes to mind is that the MCA stealth fighter programme is surely dead!!

Here is some info from 2005 on India's independent efforts into designing a stealth aircraft...

Work on the indegenous stealth fighter gets underway

BANGALORE: The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the aircraft design house of the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) in Bangalore has formed a core team to design a medium combat aircraft (MCA), an advanced multi-role fighter with stealth capabilities.

Besides incorporating many features of the indigenous single-engine Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) that is undergoing flight trials, the MCA will use radar-absorbent materials to reduce detection by radars, making it a stealth fighter.

The new generation fighter is expected to replace the Jaguar and the Mirage-2000 fleet of the Indian Air Force in the coming decades. “The design work is getting ready. It should be completed in a year,” DRDO sources told DNA.

The advanced aircraft will be build with extensive use of composites and have smart sensors like micro electronic mechanical systems (MEMS), that can automatically detect strains or weaknesses in the airframe or wings. “The IAF is giving a lot of inputs for the design,” sources said.

Once the design is frozen, the DRDO would present the project to the government for sanction of the MCA project estimated to cost about Rs 6000 to Rs 8000 crore. The MCA will be a 12 tonne weight class fighter with a maximum take-off weight of about 18 tonnes.

It is to be powered by two “thrust vector’’ engines that facilitate controlling the flight by controlling its thrust, giving the pilot greater manoeuvrability.

But there are snags in developing Kaveri, the indigenous engine that will be used for the LCA and upgraded for the MCA. The DRDO has invited bids from global engine makers to participate in building the engine.

“The stealth features and engine are two areas that we are weak. We will bridge this gap,” sources said.

Many systems and technologies developed in India for the LCA, Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) and the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) like the flight control systems and composite wings will be used in the MCA.

“It will take about six to eight years for the first aircraft to be developed,” sources said.
full article >> link

some proposed MCA at ADA presentation ....

Posted with credits to rakall :


^^ evloved from the LCA and shares commonality with the LCA







LOL ... perhaps going with the Russians seems a better idea to the folks now ..

[edit on 27/1/07 by Stealth Spy]

Advanced stealth fighter aircraft India-Russia’s new joint venture

[...]New Delhi was initially reluctant to embark upon a programme that was already past its basic design phase in Russia, but has now reconciled itself to making a possible lateral entry into the programme, assured by Moscow that progress off the drawing board will be spearheaded by both countries.

The programme envisages a fighter with all fifth generation capabilities. These include advanced stealth features, a full composite airframe, a crucial active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, advanced integrated onboard sensors, vectored thrust nozzles for superior manoeuvrability, the ability to deploy beyond visual range and ground attack missiles and importantly, the ability to supercruise — fly at supersonic velocities without the use of engine afterburners.

In response to a question from The Indian Express, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov said, “The programme, based on a Sukhoi project, is in its third year now in Russia and draws substantial funds from our national budget. India has informed us that they have made a final choice. We can now open out contractual work to India.”

Four other inter-government agreements were signed today. These include the transfer of technology to license produce RD-33 jet engines for MiG-29 fighters at HAL’s Koraput facility [....]

Wow, that ADA Medium Aircraft reminds me alot of the SU-25 Frogfoot.

I'm interested to see what the new aircraft looks like when they roll out the prototypes... but I'm not so eager to see the Mirage 2000 faded out... I love that aircraft.

Note that the img SS posted indicates Russia would want 'other' customers to purchase it. Somewhat like the patht he Su-30 MKI took. After seeing its publicised 'success' with the InAF, countries like Malaysia,Indonesia,Algeria have pushed for similar Su30 variants.

Though I wonder who these 'others' would be..
Would they be the same MKI club?Or are we looking at countries like Iran etc..?
If I remember correctly even France had an interest in a joint program for the same. Where is France on manned stealth fighters?

On the LCA:

Well the guys lobbying for the scrapping of the LCA and the acquisition for other replacements(spare Grippens etc.) would again only be able to get say 40-60 of those replacements. The LCA numbers cannot go below 20-40(i.e. at least 2-3 sqns.)
Maybe boosting the MRCA tender from ~126 to 200 would be a better replacement considering many points like logistics,infrastructure etc.
Still the LCA will achieve FOC. IMHO it is an inevitability. With only the trainer prototype testing remaining, the LCA is 'almost there'.
Seeing the LCA through would give more confidence to the teams who will move on to the PAK-FA project, and they might indeed be able to take some expertise there as well.

Again not considering the MRCA tender there is still a requirement for 200 MiG21 replacements. Actually its all very confusing to me. When the MRCA number is finalised maybe we'll get a better idea of the other numbers.
It seems that there are about 300 a/c (MiG-23 BN/MF, MiG-21 M/MF/FL/Bis, MiG-27 ML) that need to be phased out and the replacements will all be multi-role(not air superiority). So considering 126 MRCA, we still have a whopping 170 a/c (min) requirement. That HAS to be filled by some 4th gen fighter(s). If the MRCA deal is raised to 200(and there have ben rumors of this but nothing substantial), that still leaves 100 a/c (5-10 sqns). So the LCA fits right in there.

I am still unsure about the future of the naval LCA because there is still a requirement for fixed wing supersonic a/c on the indigenous carrier. With the recently conducted successful MiG-29K flight(s?) in Russia, the naval LCA may seem to be a little too risky to invest in.

Since IMHO the indigenous carrier would not be operational before 2015 for sure(actual construction hasn't started yet..) maybe the PAK-FA could have a naval angle as well? This would give the IN clear superiority in the Indian Ocean and the options of projecting power in the vicinity w/o much worry.

Yes, good points Daedalus. In the scenario I proposed leasing spare Gripens would only work if the Tejas were stopped completely to allow full resources to be thrown behind Pak Fa.
If Tejas is produced at all then the Gripen idea is a non starter because once you have started to build them for squadron service you might as well carry on. Not just for the economics of the production programme but also the economic and logistical problems of supporting two different light fighters in service in relatively small numbers.

What ever happened to this design?




Don't tell me it got cancelled! I thought that design was pretty cool, even though they copied Lockheed a bit

Nobody knows any design and I think these guys intend to keep it that way for a while at least..
Or not.. Russia seems eager to market to other customers as well once its done so maybe we'll see some publicity real soon. Good for us then!

[edit on 29-1-2007 by Daedalus3]

No, that design never got cancelled, because it was never real. Just a bit of art.

The link's dead for me, but if that's the 1-engined, long-nosed version of the Raptor it wasn't real. Nice looking piece of work though, and it looks like a feasible "light" design of the Raptor.

Personally I think the PAK-FA's going to look a lot like a smooth Raptor with a cockpit a bit like that of a Su-27 (sloping up as you move back). I hope that it has forward-swept wings like the Su-47 that are a better built for supersonic transit. Unfortunately, I think that Russia has expressed doubt in the continuation of the forward-swept wings. Disappointing, they looked very promising.

I think(or atleast I hope) it is not a single engined fighter.


[edit on 30-1-2007 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Darkpr0
The link's dead for me, but if that's the 1-engined, long-nosed version of the Raptor it wasn't real. Nice looking piece of work though, and it looks like a feasible "light" design of the Raptor.

Darkpr0 are you thinking of these images:





If so these are prototypes and proposals for a new Japanese fighter not the PAKFA.

Since the PAKFA is going to be based on the MiG1.44 and Su-47 its almost definately going to be twin engined.