Should i be a community spy

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posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 06:42 AM
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Not sure im posting in right place but here goes anyway.

I live in london u.k, in my community there has been an alarming rise in in gang related gun violence, and many of the people i have grown up with are in bad company either by choice or by way of security.
Having these friends i have access to alot of information regarding people who carry guns to carry out muggings, robberies, gangland style shootings and drug activity.

The big problem is decent youth are being dragged into this madness by joining gangs to survive or so they feel or by way of assosciation which can equal death by association, so they carry weapons to defend themselves and get deeper into that murky underworld.

So i ask for the opinon of the many intelligent folk here on ats,

Is it best to relay my information to crime stoppers anonymously and hope the police act on it. ?
Or should i take a more proactive approach and act as a kind of spy for the MET in my spare time. ?

im not too sure which action would be best but i know i can't sit back and do nothing.




posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 06:49 AM
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reaper2,

I would ring crime stoppers from a public phone immediately.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 06:57 AM
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I commend you on your willingness to stand up and fight back.

The gang mentality is not something I would take lightly. Children need to feel wanted, accepted, needed, etc., and in today's society they no longer get that from their parents. Years ago a child worked on the farm, workshop, etc., and knew that he/she had a place in the home that was of vital importance. Nowadays the emphasis is left on school, which like years ago, may not be for everyone. This is leaving a large percentage of our youth frustrated and reaching out for acceptance. In a gang, they will find this.

The need of acceptance is something we are willing to make huge sacrifices for. Look at Charles Manson and what he accomplished in the 60's. He looked at a population that everyone else ignored. He gave them the time, effort, respect, and feedback, which we all thrive for. This effort gave him an army of soldiers that would do anything for him. Sharon Tate?

So, as an individual, this is not something you can fight. If you open yourself up to this, you will find yourself the victim of crime. If Crime Stoppers is available to you, I would definitely make that my course of action. For your own sake, the communities sake, and the children who are being singled out with this pseudo friendship.

Going about this anonymously is certainly not a discredit to yourself. We all have our own, and we need to protect that. But at the same time, I think we as the citizen, have a responsibility to our neighbor and our community.

Crime Stoppers... Make the call.

Keep us updated.



[edit on 21-1-2007 by chissler]



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 06:57 AM
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the problem is the police do not want to know, now if you wanted to grass up someone who never does anything wrong, and is unliked, now the police would jump on top of that person. just go to the phone box and make it all up, just as long as the person is unliked, the police will do anything to destroy that persons life, while every criminal walks around free.

even though it sounds weird, thats the real world.

[edit on 21-1-2007 by andy1033]



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033
even though it sounds weird, thats the real world.


No, that is your opinion. Facts... Opinions... 2 Completely Different Things!

You can complain of enforcement all day, but show me a system that would work better. Without it, we would have anarchy. The keyboard we are typing on would be in the hands of someone else. Thank your local police enforcement for allowing you to keep this keyboard, so you can complain about them.

...The irony.

[edit on 21-1-2007 by chissler]



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by sanctum
reaper2,

I would ring crime stoppers from a public phone immediately.


Your right thats the fisrt thing i shoud do. Should i stop at calling crime stoppers which i will do within the next two hours.

Should i also persue a relationship with the mets local intelligence officers this may also benefit the wider community, but what would be the pros and cons of such an action. ?



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:05 AM
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I would make the crime stoppers call and remain anonymous.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:08 AM
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I agree with sanctum.

As much as I would push for change, I would be assuring my anonymity. Opening yourself up for a possible attack is absurd. Especially since you can go about this while insuring nobody ever has to know you had any part in it.

Well, other than Above Top Secret of course. But your secret is safe with us.




posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by chissler

Originally posted by andy1033
even though it sounds weird, thats the real world.


No, that is your opinion. Facts... Opinions... 2 Completely Different Things!

You can complain of enforcement all day, but show me a system that would work better. Without it, we would have anarchy. The keyboard we are typing on would be in the hands of someone else. Thank your local police enforcement for allowing you to keep this keyboard, so you can complain about them.

...The irony.

[edit on 21-1-2007 by chissler]


the police are supposed to stop criminals, not pick on minorities and people that are unliked for what ever reason. i see a world where criminals do what ever they want and walk around free.

just a bee in my bonnent i suppose, after working for them and to see how they treat people. its not for want of trying that i am still writing on this keyboard, they would of loved to make up whatever they wanted to do whatever they wanted.

but its the way of the world, criminals do what ever you want the police will never touch you as long as your well liked, but if your not well liked in this world all people have to do is goto the phonebox and make up whatever story they want and the police will be all over your life just because for whatever reason some people do not like you.

so i say to the thread starter, if the perosn you are going to grass on, is unliked just make it all up and the police will do whatever they can to wreck that persons life, but if the person actually has commited crimes and liked, do not bother wasting your time, the police want those people walking freely.

now thats irony.....



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:15 AM
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It appears your own bias is not permitting you to look at this scenario from a neutral perspective. We all have our opinions, but you must see the bias in your opinion. You speak generally, from something that I can only assume was an isolated incident.

Every individual force is just that, their own force. Stereotyping all law enforcement is not much of a solution.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by chissler
I agree with sanctum.

As much as I would push for change, I would be assuring my anonymity. Opening yourself up for a possible attack is absurd. Especially since you can go about this while insuring nobody ever has to know you had any part in it.

Well, other than Above Top Secret of course. But your secret is safe with us.



Thanks chiss you are right i think for the most part your post has been most sobering, i finish work in about an hour and will make the call

Thanks again for your support both you and sanct. its most appreciated



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by chissler
It appears your own bias is not permitting you to look at this scenario from a neutral perspective. We all have our opinions, but you must see the bias in your opinion. You speak generally, from something that I can only assume was an isolated incident.

Every individual force is just that, their own force. Stereotyping all law enforcement is not much of a solution.


i think you can generalise and say the police are just aload of power mad fanatics. thats why i always say, do not goto a country where you are a minority.

power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly.

tell me how i am wrong in saying the english police are not racist against irish people, that is a fact. you could probably look at countless cases not mine, but countless, where londoners know of where through racism and bigotry, the police have destroyed countless lifes in london(where the thread starter says he lives).

all i am saying to the thread starter is as long as the person is unliked for whatever reason, just ring the police and say the person has done anything you want, the police will be all over his life in no time, but if he or she really does commit crimes, and is liked, do not even bother, they love those people walking the streets. thats all i am saying, it may be a general statement but in the real world of london today that is a true statement.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033

but its the way of the world, criminals do what ever you want the police will never touch you as long as your well liked, but if your not well liked in this world all people have to do is goto the phonebox and make up whatever story they want and the police will be all over your life just because for whatever reason some people do not like you.

so i say to the thread starter, if the perosn you are going to grass on, is unliked just make it all up and the police will do whatever they can to wreck that persons life, but if the person actually has commited crimes and liked, do not bother wasting your time, the police want those people walking freely.

now thats irony.....


More Trident success
In 2005-2006:

Trident achieved a 100% murder detection rate
Trident criminals were sent down for a total of 852 years including 12 life sentences
117 firearms were seized
1781 rounds of ammunition were seized
712 persons were arrested
£350,407 in cash was seized
These statistics are updated annually
Stop the guns

I ask you how can mudering drug dealing bullys be well liked, criminals who tyranize the community for their own gain making it unsafe for our young and old alike huh ?

I can tell you now their are gangs i know of at large now that have more guns and more money and more amunition than is stated above and it's not about ruining innocent peoples lives, its about removing the ever increasing threat of being mugged or killed, raped etc., and god only knows how many young men have lost their lives for nothing, and i don't want this happening to anyone who does not deserve such wickedness especially those close to me.




posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:54 AM
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i understand where your going, but the world just does not work like that. never have the police prosecuted anyone in crimes against anyone i know of(i live in london to). if if the criminals find out, it could make things worse for you in the long run.

all i am saying is that london is the way it is for a reason, the police will jump at the chance to pick on someone who is unliked, but if you actually gave them a name of someone who did something, they just do not want to know.

its the real world we live in today, and my experince of these people may of been the extreme, but you can gurantee that they do what they did to me, to others.

stats are stats, stats can be manipulated to say anything.

[edit on 21-1-2007 by andy1033]



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 07:57 AM
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Is it best to relay my information to crime stoppers anonymously and hope the police act on it. ? Or should i take a more proactive approach and act as a kind of spy for the MET in my spare time. ?


Reaper: Why not contact crime stoppers to obtain a contact name and postal address? Then you could send the information to them in typed format, anonymously.


I feel the anonymous, written approach provides you the most safety.

Unfortunately, not all police are as honest, moral or idealistic as you.

In tv and gangland terminology, you would be regarded as a 'grass'. Criminals claim to hate 'grassers' as a matter of principle, but the reality is, a 'grass' is a threat to the criminal's livlihood and liberty.

You have the capacity to put people in jail. People don't like jail. So they'll fear you and that fear will emerge as hatred. You could be killed. Members of your family could be killed.

You're considering volunteering to act as 'spy' for the police

The police may pretend to regard you as a hero. Some may actually admire you. Most would be indifferent. But what could easily happen is that you could find yourself being manipulated by ambitious or dishonest members of the police.

For several weeks, say, you could relay information via phone to one or two officers. They thank you. You assume they're acting on the information. Maybe they will, maybe not. You're feeling good about yourself.

Then one day they come to you and demand information about something you know nothing about. You explain that you can tell them nothing. See how easily this could occur? One moment you have an amicable relationship with the police .. and the next, you're for some reason placed on the defensive. You protest: " Hey. Don't lean on me. I've told you -- I don't know anything about the jewellery robbery/bashing. If I did, I'd tell you. I came to you of my own free will, remember. I'm not a criminal. I'm one of the good guys ! "

And they stare hard at you without an ounce of respect or warmth. They say: " Listen -- all it will take is for us to put out the word that you've been informing, and you'll be dead before tea-time. You got that? Now so far, we've kept your name out of it. But if you don't give us the information we need by tomorrow lunch-time, we might just accidently mention your name in the right quarters. Do you know what happens to informers? Have you made a Will? Does your girlfriend/mother/wife have strong locks on her doors? Do yourself a favour and tell us what we need."

The balance of power can shift so swiftly. Instead of being regarded as a socially-responsible citizen with the best of intentions, you could find yourself being treated like a common informer, working for the police without thanks or pay.

You'd be in a no-man's land, frightened of both the police and the criminals.

Police officers talk; to their colleagues, to their families, AND to criminals.

For example, your identity could be 'traded'. A real grass might offer to provide information to the police in exchange for the identity of the informer (you) responsible for inconveniencing a criminal network or gang. If the police want the other information badly enough, they need only write down your name and address on a piece of paper and pretend to drop it.

There are some sterling police officers and there are also crooks in uniform. Crooked police are involved in drugs, prostitution, protection rackets, running interference, providing information, etc. They would have absolutely no loyalty or respect for you, nor would they care what happened to you.

There are also crooks in uniform who're involved in agendas that would boggle the mind.

Send the information anonymously. First type it. Then make a copy on a library or other public printer. Ensure there is NOTHING that could possibly identify you. Send the copy. Burn the original. TELL NO ONE .... EVER !

If you provide the information by phone, even anonymously, there's the possibility you could be recorded doing so on a security camera. These are strange and dangerous times. Most people simply do not believe that someone would place themselves at risk for society's benefit. Your good deed could land you in a nightmare.

If as you say, you want to be proactive in reducing crime, then why not join the police force? At least then you'll be paid for the risk and will be trained and granted respect and legitimacy for your efforts.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033

its the real world we live in today, and my experince of these people may of been the extreme, but you can gurantee that they do what they did to me, to others.


I understand your concerns, i have felt for a long time that the police are selective with who they go after, but there really is no other option they are the best we have right now and if we make enough noise about these said violations of the law then they will have to ACT.

Any im finishing work now and will go make the call, will keep you posted as i believe operation trident will do something about it.

spk later



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 08:07 AM
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You wouldn't be a 'community spy'. You'd be part of a neighborhood watch. We have those in neighborhoods here in America. They work rather well. Go for it! Good work!



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 08:11 AM
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threadstarter should carefully read what Dock6 writes, this is a better picture of the real world of london today, you should not have this naive approach to what the police are, i had that before i worked for them and it taught me alot, you get this impression that the police are all great and furry like the tv, but in reality they are just like the criminals on the street. watch densil washingtons movie of a few years ago, training day. wish i watched that before i worked for them, but nevermind.

rememeber the saying that densil says in that movie, "to catch a wolf you have to be a wolf, you cannot be a sheep".

peopel like you are the character he was with in that movie, remember how his partner was so naive to the realities of how the police really are, and the movie was about a training cop, waking up in one days work of real police work.

just on what Dock6 said, imagine if the police put out you were a grass enen if you never even grassed on anyone in your life. you never even did anything to either group, and you get it from the police and from the criminals, where would you go.

anyway my advise would be watch training day, and you will see how densil depicts how the police really are, remember you cannot be a sheep to catch a wolf you have to be a wolf. navity, can be something really bad in this world, its a dog eat dog world out there, and people are waiting to get someones lifes destroyed.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 08:11 AM
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I would say you are safer staying anonymous. Criminal types, and society in general have a low opinion of people, no matter how well intentioned, percieved as snitches. It seems obvious from your initial posting that you are very well intentioned, that won't change the perception, though.

Use the mail, everyone uses the mail. People notice local folk using public phones when they are in their own neighborhood. Stick with the post.

Those of you who insist on painting all law enforcement types as thugs with permits need to step away from the hollywood stereotype. Sure there are bad cops, but to say they are in the extreme minority would be to understate the case. Most are just like us, doing a difficult and dangerous job to the best of their ability.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
I would say you are safer staying anonymous. Criminal types, and society in general have a low opinion of people, no matter how well intentioned, percieved as snitches. It seems obvious from your initial posting that you are very well intentioned, that won't change the perception, though.

Use the mail, everyone uses the mail. People notice local folk using public phones when they are in their own neighborhood. Stick with the post.

Those of you who insist on painting all law enforcement types as thugs with permits need to step away from the hollywood stereotype. Sure there are bad cops, but to say they are in the extreme minority would be to understate the case. Most are just like us, doing a difficult and dangerous job to the best of their ability.


i undersatnd what you are saying, but my life was destroyed because of these so called minority, just wished i watched a film like training day before even going near them, hollywood projects that they are all decent folk, with only some bad apples, but i question that now.

of course if you have never had your life destoryed by them, you may have another view, but i just say to the threadstarter, do not be naive in what you are doing, police are humans, and like Dock6 said, they talk to people, and why should they give a damn about you or anyone else.





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