Should i be a community spy

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posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 08:23 AM
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Speaking from experience, crimestoppers type schemes can very ineffective in battling these crimes.

In a similar situation a few years ago I went out on a limb and wrote to, then visited, my local police station and gave them all the info I had gathered on the local druggies who were terrorising / intimidating the local residents.
I gave them everything, names, car registrations, hours of business etc.

After hearing nothing for weeks they then sent a uniformed officer around to my apartment on a follow-up call, in daylight, in front of the very people I had reported to the police. My car was vandalised, I received death threats and every time I stepped out I was followed by a gang on youths attempting to intimidate me into a confrontation. Needless to say I was far from happy with that screw-up

Even after going to the aid of 2 officers who were attacked right outside my apartment, during which all 3 of us received injuries, the bad guys walked away with community service orders. The CPS lowered the charges in order to get the perps to all plead guilty and wrap up the case there an then. We were not even called to give evidence and the intimidation intensified.

So, a warning. Report all you can but be very careful as the ineptitude of police and the CPS these days beggars belief and can lead to exposure of sources, putting the informant in danger.




posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 11:50 AM
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After thinking about it a little bit, I too would have to disagree with "Community Spy". As covert as it wants to appear, and the term may "land a few chicks", it seems to carry a negative tone. I would like to think of it as a "Good Samaritan" doing his part to insure the safety of himself and his neighbors.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 12:49 PM
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I appluad you decision reaper, just make sure you don't put yourself at any risk in the process.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 10:12 PM
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You can't sit back, you have to take a stand, but you also do not have to get involved and become a full time snitch.

Just ask those people that have been forced into snitching because they had a misdemeanor and did not want to risk jail. They are now slaves for life.

You can take action, but stay clean. Just do what you are suppose to do. This is not just about you, it's about all of us, we all have a moral responsibility to see that our societies do not go down the drain, or fall apart, but we do not need, and i don't think we should become full time snitches for anyone. It's like roach traps, once you get in, you can't really get out.

Think about this, you are troubled by gangs and children being pulled into gangs right? Well what good are you going to do yourself by joining one? If you think these snitch groups are not gangs think again. Some people want out and can't get out and it's the same social pressures used, it's just supposedly you are on the side of good.

Call or email crime stoppers, get the reference number. Get a hush mail account or one of those, and ask for feedback on what is being done. You can be anonymous, but still keep up to date on what action is being taken, and if sufficient action is not being taken, then take further steps.

Oh also, are you aware that some of these gang members that you will be complaining about, might also be working for the MET? As part of the release condition for not going back to jail, some are hired as snitches and go back into these communities and do whatever the hell they want to do without any fear of reprisals for getting caught because they are now part of some snitch program. Keep that in mind.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 10:42 PM
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Hi reaper2.

Become a community activist, not a community spy. I think community activism should be done out right like some of these groups in the States that are taking back the streets, but in the open, so people know where things stand. I really disapprove of the community snitching. You don't need community snitching. Keeping an eye out for each other should be a normal human function, which you should not have to do covertly.

Having said that however, these people can be dangerous and the crime stoppers is perfectly respectable.

I applaud you for wanting to take a stance.

Hi andy1033.


the problem is the police do not want to know, now if you wanted to grass up someone who never does anything wrong, and is unliked, now the police would jump on top of that person. just go to the phone box and make it all up, just as long as the person is unliked, the police will do anything to destroy that persons life, while every criminal walks around free.



Not only that, but I just found out, that they can set this into play themselves. There might be good cops out there, but lately I am personally seeing just one bad example after another. It's disgraceful. I am speaking in part from personal experience, but also from things I am reading and hearing.


Especially since you can go about this while insuring nobody ever has to know you had any part in it.


In this case I have to agree, that anonymous emailing or calling is the best thing to do. Most of these crime stopper sites have an email.


Hi andy1033.


so i say to the thread starter, if the perosn you are going to grass on, is unliked just make it all up and the police will do whatever they can to wreck that persons life, but if the person actually has commited crimes and liked, do not bother wasting your time, the police want those people walking freely.


Not only that, but the person could be snitching for the police. Then you have a whole set of other problems.


Hi chissler.



Every individual force is just that, their own force. Stereotyping all law enforcement is not much of a solution.

It might not be good to stereotype, but with the stories in the news, personal stories, and other peoples accounts, there seems to be a real problem in many forces, which need to be addressed. Even the problem of the police, policing the police is a problem that just help furnish these stero- types.



I ask you how can mudering drug dealing bullys be well liked, criminals who tyranize the community for their own gain making it unsafe for our young and old alike huh ?

Do you want to see some articles on snitches and the stuff that they get away with? The stuff the police let them get away with. Murders, rapist, crime lords, drug dealers, gang members. So yeah it happens, and all the time.


Hi Dock6


The balance of power can shift so swiftly. Instead of being regarded as a socially-responsible citizen with the best of intentions, you could find yourself being treated like a common informer, working for the police without thanks or pay.

You'd be in a no-man's land, frightened of both the police and the criminals.

Police officers talk; to their colleagues, to their families, AND to criminals.

Excellent point.



There are also crooks in uniform who're involved in agendas that would boggle the mind.


On a drug squad here in T-dot we had like 12 drug officers selling drugs, forced sex with trans-gender people, and shacking down stores for protection money. It's funny, but not really.


Hi FlyersFan.


You wouldn't be a 'community spy'. You'd be part of a neighborhood watch. We have those in neighborhoods here in America. They work rather well. Go for it! Good work

Yeah they work well, unless you are innocent and find yourself on the flip side of one, then it's another story.

Hi seagull.


Criminal types, and society in general have a low opinion of people, no matter how well intentioned, percieved as snitches.


Some still do, but now that such large portions of society are snitching, they have very good company.


Hi andy1033.


i undersatnd what you are saying, but my life was destroyed because of these so called minority,


Here, here. I can relate that they can ruin your life and you might not even realise that they are the one's that set it into play. I mean they can do this even if you are an innocent person.


Hi Britguy.



After hearing nothing for weeks they then sent a uniformed officer around to my apartment on a follow-up call, in daylight, in front of the very people I had reported to the police. My car was vandalised, I received death threats and every time I stepped out I was followed by a gang on youths attempting to intimidate me into a confrontation. Needless to say I was far from happy with that screw-up


You actually think this was an accident? The fact that they did nothing, probably means the local druggies, are already in their pockets as snitches. This is happening in ethnic minority communities. They let the snitches out, and they have them continue to sell drugs, do other crimes, and they do nothing about it, and if you dare to snitch on them, you will accidentally get caught. I will post the article if you want to have a read.


Hi chissler.




After thinking about it a little bit, I too would have to disagree with "Community Spy". As covert as it wants to appear, and the term may "land a few chicks", it seems to carry a negative tone. I would like to think of it as a "Good Samaritan" doing his part to insure the safety of himself and his neighbors.

On paper this is exactly what it is, but in reality it's something quite different. You might have good intentions, but another will use it for revenge or some other nefarious purpose. This is already happening, and no checks or bounds are being put in place, it's getting out of hand, just like the snitching situation has with the criminals. It's only now that some are starting to speak out about what a problem criminal snitches have become.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 11:19 AM
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Ok people thanks for all your input, it is clear by all the post that working with the police would not be a good option unless i worked for them (on the payroll), and even then it would suffice to say corruption would make it unsafe.

Anyway i made the call and took a wieght off my shoulders, now ill sit back and waite to see the results if any. Will certainly keep giving as much info as possible. it feels good to know im helping to lessen the effects gun crime is having on our society and at the same time not risking my safety.

Much good advice has been posted here and i thank you all for your encouragement and concern, wish i had a way above for everyone..



Will keep you posted on any results...

Thanks

Reaper2



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Harassment101
Hi FlyersFan.


You wouldn't be a 'community spy'. You'd be part of a neighborhood watch. We have those in neighborhoods here in America. They work rather well. Go for it! Good work

Yeah they work well, unless you are innocent and find yourself on the flip side of one, then it's another story.

Hi andy1033.


i undersatnd what you are saying, but my life was destroyed because of these so called minority,


Here, here. I can relate that they can ruin your life and you might not even realise that they are the one's that set it into play. I mean they can do this even if you are an innocent person.



yep when i left school, my life fell apart so quickly, until years later i found out that people had destroyed my life and i was not really aware of it, because i was nowhere near them. today my life is screwed, and i would not be able to goto work, just because of this rubbish and how the police want absolute power over peoples lifes.

people just do not know what goes on behind there back, because if you never did anything wrong, you just do not expect things like this to happen, but believe me its a dog eat dog world out there, and if your naive, people will walk all over you. labels and hearsay can wreck peoples lifes today more than any facts, all people need to do is make it all up, and with so called gang stalking, your life can be ruined for nothing.

but the bit that gets me is that police are supposed to be there to protect the innocent, but thats simply not the case, they do not like people who never do anything wrong, they want a society where everyone os doing everything, and people against people, to keep there money rolling in.

but thats london of today. the funny thing is that people say that your stupid to never do anything wrong, what sort of world is it where its wrong, to not do anything wrong, and then people can just make up stuff to wreck your life.



posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 09:07 AM
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news.bbc.co.uk...

watch this video, the synconicity of this video and that we are talking about this on this thread. see what the murdered girls brother thinks of the police, are police really here to protect, or to run the crimes.

its upto you to decide.



posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033

watch this video, the synconicity of this video and that we are talking about this on this thread. see what the murdered girls brother thinks of the police, are police really here to protect, or to run the crimes.
its upto you to decide.


Andy are you saying we should not help the police with information in order to help with convictions, just because of a few bad cops ???

If the police can't deal with criminal then who ??

Would you call the police if you witnessed a crime..?? or what would you do ??



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 11:56 AM
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O.K peeps i can reveal as a direct result of some info i passed to crime stoppers two gun men were arrested with loaded weapons. And arrested and charged with murder in the first degree, unfortunately they were paused to pounce on the suspects but they had just shot someone and killed them the police persued and apprehended the gun men, they now awaite trial.

It does take a load off your mind when you help to get these people off the streets but it is no easy task to keep track of these people.
and im sorry they weren't captured quicker.

There are so many more gun men to be brought to justice i can only say this is the beggening of something good.



A MAN was gunned down as he was getting out of his car in Homerton last weekend.

Craig Thoms, 28, was attacked after he pulled up outside Eko's bar and restaurant in a grey Fiat Punto in Homerton High Street in the early hours of Saturday morning.

A postmortem carried out on Sunday at Poplar coroner's Court. The cause of death was given as gunshot wounds to the body.

Two people were arrested in Luton last Monday in connection with the shooting and charged on Thursday.

Junior Byron Gordon, 39, unemployed and of no fixed address, has been charged with murder and Odete Worrell, 33, a hairdresser of no fixed address, with assisting him.

They appeared before Thames Magistrates on Friday. They were both remanded to appear at The Old Bailey on June 1.


This story is from the same source and is the very same people i was talking about



HACKNEY is plagued by more gangs than anywhere else in the capital, according to a leaked police report.

A total of 22 gangs have been identified - almost double the number of the next ranked borough, Enfield, with 13.

The figures were taken from an unpublished report by the Metropolitan Police identifying 169 gangs across the capital, more than a quarter of which have been involved in murders

Source


Just to give an idea of the problem Parts of London are facing.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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I would organize your neighbors into vigilante committees. Traditionally the police have their hands tied and are subject to bribery from gangs. You need to organize the neighbors and give the gangbangers a dose of their own medicine. I understand that firearms are illegal in the UK, but you can make air powered cannons that shoot items like used up AA batteries. These would be impossible to do ballistic tests on and you and your neighbors could be on the rooftops raining down battery hell on gangsters below. You could also set up ambushes to target specific gangsters. When gangsters drive by at night you can fire batteries through their vehicle windows silently and undetected. You can also use slings like David whupped on Goliath with. Fifty people on rooftops could demolish a couple gangster filled cars with slings firing industrial sized nuts and bolts or the steel balls out of ball mills. You could also find out the gangsters homes and fire through their home windows. Take the fight to the gangs instead of waiting for them to bring it to you.

THE BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE

[edit on 3-5-2007 by groingrinder]



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:44 PM
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You either stand or fall back and have no right to whine about things being wrong. All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Read my signature.

But use a public phone, no reason to risk your family over it.


[edit on 7-3-2007 by Royal76]



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 05:24 AM
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Where I come from we are taught two rules.
1. Always keep your mouth shut.
2.Never rat your friends out.
Once you become a rat no one will ever be able to trust you again. Even if it is the right thing that you think you are doing it isn't. They will have friends and family on the outside. While they may not do any physical harm to you they will make you an outcast. Your family will also get the same treatment. No one likes a rat. Just think this over before you do it.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 10:33 PM
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Hi fiveangelsfrank.

You make some really good points, but there has to be a line between being a good responsible citizen who feels at liberty to report an unjust or wrong crime when they see one and the civilian spy force that we are seeing in many cities.

I think you can do the right thing, without resorting to being a snitch, or turning the city into a snitching police State with a spy on every corner, which is what we have now in my city.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 10:41 PM
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Wrong thread.

[edit on 11-3-2007 by Harassment101]



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by Royal76
You either stand or fall back and have no right to whine about things being wrong. All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Read my signature.

But use a public phone, no reason to risk your family over it.


[edit on 7-3-2007 by Royal76]


Thansks Royal your support is much appreciated.



Where I come from we are taught two rules.
1. Always keep your mouth shut.
2.Never rat your friends out.
Once you become a rat no one will ever be able to trust you again. Even if it is the right thing that you think you are doing it isn't. They will have friends and family on the outside. While they may not do any physical harm to you they will make you an outcast. Your family will also get the same treatment. No one likes a rat. Just think this over before you do it.



Hi Fiveangels,

Sorry but i don't agree with you here, on point 1 if we all keep quiet hardly any crimanals would be captured at all and society would be large lawless
On point 2 protential muderes, rapist and the like are not my friends or friends of any decent person i might add they are a scurge on society and put everyone in danger.

As for people finding out i'm informing, theres no chance it's done completley annonomously as advised in the above posts.

Lastly don't harbour criminals if thats what your saying its just plain wrong and we all have a duty to protect our loved ones and the innocents in the larger society. Just imagine it was your mother, brother, sister who was killed for a doller or something equally as stupid and then imagine how other people feel when they have had a loss due to crime and knowing someone could have prevented it or at least helped with evedence or a tip off to help convict that villian.




Good points but there has to be a line.

Hi fiveangelsfrank.
You make some really good points, but there has to be a line between being a good responsible citizen who feels at liberty to report an unjust or wrong crime when they see one and the civilian spy force that we are seeing in many cities.

I think you can do the right thing, without resorting to being a snitch, or turning the city into a snitching police State with a spy on every corner, which is what we have now in my city.


Hi 101 sorry but i saw no good points there but i do agree there has to be a line.
But how do you do the right thing without being a snitch ?
I dont want a police state with a spy on every corner but its either that or a gang on every corner, take your pick.

Peace

Reaper



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 09:16 PM
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reaper2



But how do you do the right thing without being a snitch ?
I dont want a police state with a spy on every corner but its either that or a gang on every corner, take your pick.


I don't think it has to be one or the other. It was not like that before and I don't know why we think that is the choice now. You can help out your society without being a snitch.

I think people are confusing snitching and witnessing or doing the right thing. Use to be a time when if you saw something wrong and it was hurting someone you reported it.

In my opinion, there is a difference. I think we can have witnesses without being snitches.

[edit on 12-3-2007 by Harassment101]



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by reaper2

Originally posted by Royal76
Hi Fiveangels,

Sorry but i don't agree with you here, on point 1 if we all keep quiet hardly any crimanals would be captured at all and society would be large lawless
On point 2 protential muderes, rapist and the like are not my friends or friends of any decent person i might add they are a scurge on society and put everyone in danger.

As for people finding out i'm informing, theres no chance it's done completley annonomously as advised in the above posts.

Lastly don't harbour criminals if thats what your saying its just plain wrong and we all have a duty to protect our loved ones and the innocents in the larger society. Just imagine it was your mother, brother, sister who was killed for a doller or something equally as stupid and then imagine how other people feel when they have had a loss due to crime and knowing someone could have prevented it or at least helped with evedence or a tip off to help convict that villian.




Good points but there has to be a line.

Hi fiveangelsfrank.
You make some really good points, but there has to be a line between being a good responsible citizen who feels at liberty to report an unjust or wrong crime when they see one and the civilian spy force that we are seeing in many cities.

I think you can do the right thing, without resorting to being a snitch, or turning the city into a snitching police State with a spy on every corner, which is what we have now in my city.


Hi 101 sorry but i saw no good points there but i do agree there has to be a line.
But how do you do the right thing without being a snitch ?
I dont want a police state with a spy on every corner but its either that or a gang on every corner, take your pick.

Peace

Reaper

Sometimes you need to look at how this can effect your family. Witness protection doesn't protect everyone.





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