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Connection Between Hip Hop & NLP

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posted on Jan, 15 2007 @ 06:21 PM
This is going to be an on-going thread of mine where I will find at the least co-relations between the lyrics and direct effect upon public mind-set and popular trends.

For those unfamiliar with NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) I'll quote the all horrible wikipedia... so bare with this..

Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is a set of techniques, axioms and beliefs, that adherents use primarily as an approach to personal development. It is based on the idea that mind, body and language interact to create an individuals perception of the world and that perceptions, and hence behaviors, can be changed by the application of a variety of techniques; in particular, "modeling" which involves the careful reproduction of the behaviors and beliefs of those who have achieved 'excellence', or of the more successful parts of oneself.

Now I realize music in general has this effect. But considering the high influence hip hop has on the youth I want to address this angle

Just to start... Because almost every "rapper" looks up to him.. let's look at some of Tupac's most influential lyrics or quotes.

“we wouldn't ask why a rose that grew from the concrete for having damaged petals, in turn, we would all celebrate its tenacity, we would all love its will to reach the sun, well, we are the roses, this is the concrete and these are my damaged petals, dont ask me why, thank god, and ask me how”

It may seem like it has no effect, but to the people listening and those who critique the work... I think the way he accesses certain thoughts and feelings with the concept has a way of making it hard NOT to understand him and his view, a very familiar trait of NLP.

There are numerous examples riddled through-out hiphop, I chose to pick something more enlightening instead of the obvious negative lyrics and influence...

If anyone else wants to contribute to this thread please feel free... but I ask that you stick with rap/hiphop/r&b lyrics....

The conspiracy should be obvious..
The control and influence over the minds of the youth, to encourage certain developement in certain areas.

posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 04:36 PM
Exactly PuRE EnErGy, why do you think Heavy Metal is unpopular except in "radical youths", anarchists, anti governmental people or general "Dissenters"? Coincidence, I think not. Some of the most important bands of Heavy Metal have some very interesting lyrics. They were what brought me to Metal in the first place. Pop lyrics todays are just plain trash, subliminal well thought out lyrics, but it's only trash in gift wrapping.

Some Heavy Metal songs have some very deep lyrics that don't only reflect on love like 95% of all Pop songs, they talk about War, child cruelty, death, life, mind control, freedom, etc. Same goes with rap, it spreads a message of community, of dissent, of liberty, of rebellion, of non conformity.

And know, ask yourself this: Why do people listen much more to Pop, and why does it have a multi million business behind it, with a great view in peoples eyes, while Heavy Metal is normally associated with Vandalism, Punks, Alcoholics and drugs? And rap associated with Gangs, violence, vandalism and drugs?

I'll tell you why, the image was implemented to steer people away from it's true meaning, and to destroy the image of those who listen to it. What is happening to the world is sickening, and it's up to use and this generations future critics and thinkers to point the finger.

Just like the thinkers from the Age of Light denounced Absolutism, we must denounce the trampling of liberties in the society we live in. Remember, to read is to dissent. There is no other weapon capable of persuading an entire country but the word. Our enemies are using it, isn't it time we used it too?

posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:43 PM
PuRe EnErGy, i agree with much of what you had to say. Especially where you bring up the tupac quote. I read this quote and to me, it was very powerful, and it was just as powerful the first time i read it. Being the avid/active fan of Hip-Hop I am, I don't think others will feel as impacted by this quote. I think alot of this does have to do with NLP.

I feel like hip-hop is stereotyped as gangster music, thug music and so on. Now, don't get me wrong.. 80% of mainstream rappers incorporate all there money, guns, and cars into there music but what people DON'T see and don't even care to look at is is the influental side of hip-hop/rap. The side of Hip-hop that people can relate to, the poetic side of Hip hop. Cause really, tupac was just a poet who had so many positive, influental messages but these positive messages were shunned by people who only cared to hear the negative things he said when in reality tupac was a POSITIVE INFLUENTIAL person, people just see/saw him as a gang member.

just my 2 cents, i'll keep my eye on this thread tho seems like it could be very interesting

posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 12:09 PM
I think there are some very deep lyrics in both music genres. But with me I really dont listen to the lyrics unless its a song like amerika the brutal by six feet under. I love music and really I just listen to the whole song, I dont zero in on the lyrics.

posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 03:14 PM
I think that may be part of the problem though... (Not listening) or thinking the lyrics are corny..

I think we aren't giving them the credit they deserve.... even songs like hoes in different areas codes..
because its bringing out attention to things in our society that need attention... ANY attention is GOOD attention just ask a child who likes to get "their" way..

Tupac was a shining example for the people in the industry now.. you don't think some of his advice rubbed off? .. Trick Daddy, Bone Thugs...

at one point I was disgusted with hiphop... commercial hiphop.. but I found that I can't really hate on them, if I want money too ... You Can't help a single soul without some money... sure you can help them on a spiritual/thought level, but you have to wash the outside of the cup too... we weren't meant to be poor and in pain.. riches were meant for us.. because we share... and we help..

I'm going to be posting some lyrics that should get some people thinking in the next 2 days here..
Feel free to grab some lyrics and post them.. (hiphop/rap lyrics) .. to give an example of NLP scripting..

posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 04:56 PM
great post pure energy i'll take part in posting some lyrics too

this is a track called calm down by joe budden its a long one but its incredibly inspirational and motivational

She use to tell me to... calm down...
Moms use to tell me to... calm down...
Baby just calm down...
She use to tell me to... calm down...
Moms use to tell me to... calm down...
(She would pray that I would) Baby just calm down...
Calm down...

[Budden – Verse 1]
Look, I was such a lost soul, just wanted to be down with something
Look at your son now mommy I amounted to something
You couldn't figure out, what I had messed with the streets for
Cause you saw my genius without a SAT score
I took drugs and laced it with things
But you a addict yourself,
For you I was people, places and things (how the # you thought)
Angeldust use to have me in the hallways twurked
I tried to hide it, but Visine didn't always work
I needed someone to blame in my mind
I thought if you and dad never used dope I would a came out fine
And so I hit you hard when you threw in advice
Like what I want to talk to you about you ruined my life
You the reason why I ended up a con and I knew it
The reason I filled my body with embomin fluid, mommy
You the reason that my life's gone illegal
The reason I'm kinda different, don't think like normal people, not calm

She use to tell me to... calm down...
Moms use to tell me to... calm down...
(Use to pray that I would) Baby just calm down...
You gotta hold your head up cause we gone make it
She use to tell me to... calm down...
Moms use to tell me to... calm down...
(You got to understand what I was going through)
Baby just calm down...
Everything's gonna be alright
She use to tell me to... calm down...
Moms use to tell me to... calm down...
(But a nigga wouldn't) Baby just calm down...
You gotta hold your head up cause we gone make it y'all

[Budden – Verse 2]
Listen... ain't # like seeing your moms crying on the floor
Knowing you the reason why she ain't alright no more
But so young, I was like whatever
You use to chase me through the house with the knife like get your life together
#ing drugs, how could I ever amp on you
And what made me think that I could lay my hands on you
I'm not surprised that you mad at me
Much as you hated my father, your youngest son is just like his daddy
Mommy I live life rude, how could you not understand it
On the same note I'm just like you
I got moms sensitivity, my fathers balls
His humor, his g, and my heart is yours
# school, cause I had my major
Come to grips that it ain't so much the drugs, it's the addict behavior (no)
Was it the dic charge, the cut that came with it
Wasn't really the smoking, but the rush that came with it (wasn't calm people)

She use to tell me to... calm down...
Calm down...
(but a nigga wouldn't) Baby just calm down...
You gotta hold your head up cause we gone make it y'all
(do it with me people) Calm down...
Calm down...
(try to understand it) Baby just calm down...
(those kind of things) Everything's gonna be alright
Calm down... (just bare with me for a... for a brief moment y'all)
Calm down...
Baby just calm down...
You gotta hold your head up cause we gone make it y'all

[Budden – Verse 3]
I felt so alone, I had a crew, but so what
Then when Angela stabbed me guess who showed up
And when people said I‘d always be ill and twisted
And when the therapist had told us that the pills would fix it
Was sick of being sick, I was finally hurt
With all the praying that you did ma, it finally worked
God gave you a son back, I won't offend you again
Won't let the disease turn me against you again
Use to be high as ever, (but I) Joey Jr. got his life together
As a result, now we tighter than ever
So blessed, so grateful to be seeing tomorrow (see the whole world)
That's why I can't take a drink, not if even a swallow
I can't picture me twisted, like what I'm a do now
Haters I can't stop yet, my mothers to proud
Secure now, don't need to be down with nothin

posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 03:31 AM
"Knicky-Knack, Patty Wack, Automatic Gat go Bust, some say they're down, but they're shady so in glock I trust."-Project Pat

I remember in high school, Three Six Mafia was a cancer infecting many. Before they went mainstream, their lyrics were demonically influenced (in their minds... I don't believe in the devil or demons or such nonsense), speaking of gratuitous drug use, sale, and murder.

Their label was/is called "Hypnotize Minds" and does just that. The beats are extremely catchy, repetitive, and induce a sense of a hypnotic trance. The memphis style of rap mixes dark beats with euphoric/happy beats with murder and violence undertones to make the listener associate happiness with murder and crime. The memphis rap scene is sinister.

Now in College, hiphop is the cancer promoting Young Jeezy and other criminals that rise to fame. Although these characters might be sparks in the pan, their message won't be. Can you imagine the criminal business ethic after people our age get out into the real world?

"Yea I blew up, but they ain't like that
They switched up on me, and I ain't like that
Sold my first brick, yea, I came right back
Fast forward the tape, n**** look at me now
And I never turn back, so mutha f*** that
Nike's on the ground got my head to the sky
Smoked all day, Lord knows I stay high
Stay on top, Lord knows I'm gon' try
And live for the moment, Lord knows I'm gon' die
And when I get to hell, Lord knows I'm gon' fry
Woke up this morning so I'm still alive
36 O's I sold them all for five "-Young Jeezy

So Young Jeezy is a criminal against all odds full speed ahead and making the most of today selling drugs and hustling the world because he knows criminality leads to death? Interesting.

I'm not solely picking on Young Jeezy or Three Six Mafia, a big part of the rap industry is lacking in social behavior. Men like Jay-Z are very inspiring, but still we don't and will never know the full story on anyone in the rap game.

In my opinion, Common is the social rapper- he is real. I don't like Kanye West, I think he's a very hurt individual going in all different directions not knowing which side he is on ethically. Basically I could talk badly all day on this issue, but my opinion is just mine. And like the other guy's opinion, he is entitled to his.

There are great successes, there are big failures. But those in the rap community need to understand the power they yield, and really let that sink in. Their lives, world, viewpoint, and mission is open to all. It is all recorded, and spread throughout the masses. This isn't just a black issue, everyone has listened to rap/hears rap.

The rap industry has a huge responsibility; and promoting criminality is what will eventually do them in.

"You respect the guy that got shot; I respect the shooter."-Jay-Z

Pure, I agree to a huge degree. Wether or not the artists are aware of NLP, the music does have the effect in a huge way.

posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 03:52 AM

damn good post man..... left me speachless

posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 12:01 PM
this is one of my all-time favorite songs... very influential as well.. it pretty much speaks for itself, these days ..

(2pac talkin)
You know what gang violence is, mostly
and the people dont want you to hear this
somebody shoots your family member
so of course you retaliate, You know what i mean
Same thing the U.S does except nobody even shot their family members
you know, they see that, somebody bomb a school
and all these people get killt
so the united states feel like ooh thats messed up
we gotta go show em who tha real killers
this country was built on gangs, you know
i think this country still is run on gangs
republicans, democrats, the police department, the FBI
the CIA, those are gangs, you know what i mean
the correctional officers,
I had a correctional officer tell me straight,
we the biggest gang in New York state
straight up

(Verse 1)
Supress the revolution of premeditated scheme
Introduce a drug called crack, to us ghetto teens
Got a law for raw niggaz, now playa what it be like?
When will niggaz see they got us bleedin with three strikes
Can't seem to focus hopeless, with violent thoughts I wrote this
Got these Devils petrified, hidin from my hocus-pocus
And so I learned to earn my currency in over time (muahahaha)
Affiliated, clearly click a military mind
May God forgive us though we dwell inside a paradox
Thugged out and drug dealin, from the womb to the block
My live mind got me survivin five rounds
My forty-five got my fortified with live rounds
When #'s thick we plot hits, when our glock spits
All hail, Out on Bail, Wrath of 2Pacalypse
Forever ghetto necessary picture food stamps
Outlaw Thug Niggaz never left the boot camp

Chorus: Busta Rhymes

We got the real live # from front to back
To my niggaz in the world, 2Pac is back
Where my soldierz is at? (2X)
Where the f.r.uck my soldierz at?
Where my soldierz is at?

(Verse 2)

Now i was born as a rebel, making trouble for the devil
Take this gang bang sh.i.t, to a whole nother level
Can you feel me now? Armies in every city
Definition of power, players are you with me?
See the war is the prophecy, survival is the strategy
Rest in peace to my comrades that deceased
(Busta Rhymes: Notorious B.I.G)
Organize these streets in time
Youll have these devils petrified of a nigga in his right mind
They tell us that we hopeless and hell bound
This fo the brothers in penetentiaries jailed down
I got you in my heart till tha day i die
Think of tha damage we can do, if we wasnt high
Can you picture me loc? Its a thugs wrath
Political contracts and blood baths
For Matulu Shakur up in the rikers,
Though they got you, I never let them stop me
The struggle continues

(2Pac Talkin)
Now if we do want to live a thug life and a gangsta life and all of that,
ok, so stop being cowards and lets have a revolution
but we dont wanna do that, dudes just wanna live of character
They wanna be cartoons, but if they really wanted to do something
if they was that tough, alright, lets start our own country
lets start a revolution, lets get out of here, lets do something

Chorus: Busta Rhymes

We got the real live # from front to back
To my niggaz in the world, 2Pac is back
Where my soldierz is at? (2X)
Where the f.r.uck my soldierz at?
Where my soldierz is at?

[edit on 1/24/2007 by PuRe EnErGy]

posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 01:06 PM
Which is why I stand by the fact that Tupac was a genius and a legend amongst men

He understood.

posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 09:36 PM
yea and after all the great things he said and wrote he's still labeled as a gangster, thug and criminal by many

[edit on 25-1-2007 by biotic]

posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 02:31 AM
Well, on the Tupac Subject... I would have to say that he was each of those things... and more.. he embodied what this society creates, especially for certain minorities and it scared people because he was REAL with it.. When he was kickin' that guys head in after the Tyson fight I'm sure you could say that was "gangster" or whatever who cares really.. everyone makes mistakes is really the lesson we should be taking from his story.. that REALITY is a mixture of things.. not just some godly or ungodly black, white, yellow, etc etc.. human. We are human and we have ups and downs and that doesn't mean that a person is any more or any less intelligent.

Here are some lyrics by Jedi Mind Tricks a group that has spurred me to read a lot of things I didn't know existed and used a lot of names that I had to go and google to find out what the hell they were talking about.. This particular song is called The Coming Of Tan (It's hard to find songs without cursing) ..

(Riley Martin, author of 'The Coming of Tan', speech sample)
"Perhaps you will believe the million feet of film that's been taken above...
uh... Mexico City, and various other places
If you think that you are alone in this universe
or that you are the guardians of this universe, then you are rudely mistaken"

[El Eloh from Lost Children of Babylon]
Took a physical odyssey
To the fathers of Shabazz
With the shamans of the Cherokees
Arrived in Nevada, 10 miles away from NASA
Met the farmer, in which he revealed to me the
Ohioan crop circles that linked all the star constellations
To 19th galaxy... The metaphysists
That quote the Roswell
New Mexican deserts of death valley
Will he be, extraterrestrial biological entity
discovering extraordinary memories
Glided across Glassland
Suddenly seeing illuminations from the seven heavens circle of sand
Of Area 51 and 57, separate the schoolkid and reveal the reptilian
I seen the CIA transform into the species of Greys
The Sabbath seven adding up to seven levels of the Majestic 12
Neoclassic traveller
I Travel the Twilight Zone with Einstein and Nikola Tesla
Walk through the wilderness of Ibilis
as the flying disc, of Ezekiel
the pope stands upon the podium
Becomes a Zeta Reticulian
behold the arrival of the Elohim ..."

[IKon the Verbal Hologram]
...Beware the prophecies of the Tarots!
Alien Spacecraft flying away like Sparrows!
Study the lost prophetic books of the bible
That recites Fallen body energies: spiritual survival
Flying discs seen in Ezekiel 1:3
Granted Kingu a tablet of destinies
Seviates spoke the word of the Bavarian illuminati
I bring forth harmonics of Hiroshima and Nagasaki!
Annunaki planted the seed where I dwell
either vortex turbines pulling me to hell
awareness upon my savannah as omni dimensional
great species has a common memory complex of the social
liquid crystal colloidal membranes responding
to the spectrum of the universal intelligence matrix...
the basis is that extraterrestrials created Christ
and have a device
that recorded all of Earth's history
and can display it in the form of a hologram precise;
Construction of synthetic humanoids is among us
You have entered the Land Of Nod now, face the deafening thunders
And the spiritual wonders
because the harvest now is coming
Beware the world-wide ancient tunnel system
the government is running
Hectic! Verbal slaughter of the Judeo-Christian Ethic!

[El Eloh]
The world has turned on its last spin
The coming of Tan- That is when ya learn! (x2)

[El Eloh]
Fled with the 5, led through a European wooded ravine
And seen Stone henge connect and bring upon the Annunaki
The Highest kabbalah mystic chants by Elohim
And looks to the sky for prophecy
Was abducted in Nebraska
Then taken back to the laboratory, experiment performed before me
Non earthly alien autopsy!
Psycho social biological and electro-
-Magnetic manipulation of human consciousness
The Vulcan walks about the abyss!

[IKon the Verbal Hologram]
The Verbal Hologram: Wordal killer like Shark eyes
Speak Babylonian and Hebrew genesis like the Star Gods
Blessed by Biaviians like the French theologians
Anti-Christ is coming in the form of a powerful Roman!
Development of Aid’s was funded in 1969
For the seven (G-7)
and injected into 100 million Africans in ‘77
Cuneiform inscriptions in Western Asia of the Nabu
Dwell in hell, celestial bodies : twelve like Kathabu
But I can rob you of your spirit soul like Xenu
Elders imprisoned, negative Para-physical beings we knew
Function outside the time-track like Ississani
I chose to be enclosed and I fold too, like Origami
Comprehend the theory of reflection like Paromatma
In the epic Sanskrit history of the world like Mahabharata
Praise to His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada


[Riley Martin]
"If you stood above the stratosphere and downloaded 7 gigawatts of negative ions
into the turbines would this not disrupt the..electromagnetic flow?"

posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 05:30 PM
I'm not a huge fan of hip hop (just a small one - after all I'm a 49-yr-old white lady), but I wanted to pop in here and thank you for this thread. Those tupac lyrics are really so moving and inspirational. Why is it the good ones are taken so young?

Yeah, this country is still run on gangs...

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
But those in the rap community need to understand the power they yield, and really let that sink in. Their lives, world, viewpoint, and mission is open to all. It is all recorded, and spread throughout the masses. This isn't just a black issue, everyone has listened to rap/hears rap.

This is really true.

posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 10:58 PM
Thanks BH- why are they taken so young? Why is the country still run with a gang-mentality and actual gangs (in my opinion, these "gangs" are still gangs despite financial status and influence... hence a secret society is still a gang full of thugs imo). The reason is because society has not understood the anti-social personality for ages and doesn't know how to recognize and handle such a person. Sometimes I feel like if you rented out a television show just showing programs dedicated to this information, you'd change the world with that alone. But here is a massive set of information, that you must read fully (read A-Z on anti/social and PTS):

posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 11:22 PM
you watch way too much tv. rap sucks, i listened to rap in high school because my friends liked to listen to it. queers

[edit on 29-1-2007 by Soitenly]

posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 07:21 AM
which part of that post are we going to disect here? I say we divide up his sentences into halves and we all take a piece and write a parapgraph of why it's wrong lol. Get off the thread man.

posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 10:23 PM
Seriously, you watch too much tv. the lyrics are nonsense and the music plagairized.

posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 01:14 PM
Just a few examples of how rap can convey a message. Although these artists utilise theyre own viewpoint to relay theyre thoughts, it still provides an escape from the monotony of mainstream top 40 hip hop.

posted on May, 2 2007 @ 01:21 PM
what a great topic! I have been under this impression as well, even before I knew what NLP was (I have since taken lessons in NLP from Richard Bandler himself)

Also, being a music producer (i bet lots of you have heard my work, especially if you watch adult swim) I noticed that the tempos used in HipHop (moreso than any other genre) are very close to the resting heartrate of humans (70-80bpm). Typical hiphop ranges from 74-98 bpm, with 74-88 being "relaxed," 88-94 being average, and anything above 94 being "uptempo."

I always figured that was because if a song's tempo is faster than your heartrate, it will seem "uptempo" to you. Now for the NLP side of things, just the fact that rappers speak almost exclusively in metaphors (not all, but many), and have a certain cadence to their delivery - this all ties right in with NLP..

however, the basis for NLP is not applying general standards, but focusing on the individual and etc. I doubt there is any intentional NLP being used in popular songs, but very interesting indeed.

posted on May, 3 2007 @ 02:22 AM
ugh most of the "hip hop" on the radio isn't hip hop at's a bunch of crap talking about how much $ they have the clothes..ughhffhhfsshf im sooooooo annoyed at the radio and what the hell is the big fuss over akon..the songs BLOW!!! kids think this is real hip hop!

mos def is the shiz..

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