France wanted to join the UK!?

It's usually the 'not to be revealed for 30yrs' rule stuff that makes the splash headline but today for once it's something released under the 50yr rule
(IIRC there are also 75yr rules and 100yr rules......and an exceptional 'never' rule too).

How's this for a shocker, huh?

Britain and France talked about a "union" in the 1950s, even discussing the possibility of the Queen becoming the French head of state, it was reported today.

On September 10 1956, Guy Mollet, the then French prime minister, came to London to discuss the possibility of a merger between the two countries with his British counterpart, Sir Anthony Eden, according to declassified papers from the National Archives, uncovered by the BBC.

A British cabinet paper from the period reads: "When the French prime minister, Monsieur Mollet, was recently in London, he raised with the prime minister the possibility of a union between the United Kingdom and France.".....

......When Mr Mollet's request for a union failed, he quickly responded with another plan - that France be allowed to join the British commonwealth - which was said to have been met more warmly by Sir Anthony......

......However, this proposal was also eventually rejected and, a year later, France signed the Treaty of Rome with Germany and the other founding nations of the European common market.

www.guardian.co.uk...

- It kind of puts all the old stories about De Gaulle just being an anti-British Frenchman and 'bloody awkward' into a new perspective; what might have been, eh?

The possibilities are very interesting (but possibly on balance not as beneficial for the European continent as a whole as the EU itself has turned out to be.....on the otherhand maybe such a union would have led to a faster developing EU and a much smaller 'little englander' brigade)?

As the BBC say -

Instead, when the EEC was born the following year, France teamed up with Germany while Britain watched on. The rest, it seems, is history.

news.bbc.co.uk...

That's one of the nice things about politics, you think you have a situation sussed and know pretty much what there is to know about it and along comes a shocker like this.

It's one of the reasons why we should be suspicious and cautious with absolute & simplistic black and white versions of reality (particularly foreign affairs) when some people claim to and think they know it all, as events like this repeatedly prove usually neither they nor we do really know it all.
States do have a habit of keeping their secrets (and not always for bad reason).

I just hope I get to see the 50yr stuff about what is happening now, it might make it a damned sight more sensible!

BTW it's featured in a BBC radio 4 program - Document's 'A Marriage Cordial' will be broadcast on Radio 4 at 2000 GMT on Monday.
news.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 15-1-2007 by sminkeypinkey]

"Astonishing" doesn't really some close for this story. I must admit that I momentarily checked that it wasn't 1st April when I first saw this.

Interestingly, there is a modicum of sense in the thought process, particularly with reference to a potential conflict between British backed Jordan and French backed Israel brewing up and you can only wonder at how such an arrangement may have evolved alongside or even instead of the EEC in its early days.

A fully fledged case of " you couldn't make it up".

When I first heard this I was amazed that a French Premier would ever be so bold as to suggest union with another country(especially an English speaking one)with the other countries head of state becoming French head of state. However from what I've read it seems that this plan was hopelessly optimistic even for the time. A later plan proposed to Anthony Eden which had France joining the British Commonwealth was probably alot more feasible.

Blimey.

I knew there was a plan to unite the UK and France during the Second World War to try to help defeat Germany (Churchill was one of its proponents - he seriously considered a unified Europe, too, during his time as Leader of the Opposition after WWII) but, due to the surprising speed of the Wehrmacht advance and a lot of reluctance from politicians on both sides, it didn't go ahead.

Didn't realise there was a plan for it during peacetime, though. Very, very interesting stuff

This is a little off-topic but somewhat relevent to this thread. I don't recall ever seeing one single French poster on ATS. Any out there that would like to weigh in on this topic?

Any therories on why we never hear from any French nationals on ATS?

The French Connection

Originally posted by darkbluesky
Any therories on why we never hear from any French nationals on ATS?

I'm sure we have some, but unfortunately after the "recent unpleasantness" a few years ago -- when the U.S. was trying to badger France into helping with the Iraq invasion -- there was a great deal of good old American jingoism directed against the French, and I'm sure this is part of the fallout from that.

The France-bashing and nationalistic bigotry even led to changing the names of "French Fries" to "Liberty Fries" in the congressional commissary.

After a disgraceful display like that, I wouldn't blame anyone in France for avoiding discussion forums with large numbers of American members.

That of course is not to mention the good ole' european anti-americanism hitting the board. I mean its not unusual for a politician to direct public attention from failure at home towards trouble abroad(Schroeder and Chavez come to mind). And most Americans could careless whether France came along or not. After all there's that saying

Jed Babbin on Hardball with Chris Mathews: you know frankly going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. You just leave a lot of useless noisy baggage behind.

Whether what Mr. Babbin stated is true or not is neither here nor there. I for one personally wouldn't have minded the French coming along. But we should all remember everyone does their fair share of bashing and stereotypical mud-slinging. If you don't believe me find a thread you remember for attracting an arrogant american(s) and see what started the conversation you might be surprised.

Oh and it was "Freedom Fries" not "liberty fries".

Well, i have been away for a while due to internet and telephone line problems..

But i do believe that a Union between France and the United Kingdom would have been a good thing. France has been very supportive to us and our relationship is a good one (even though the Middle England media thinks otherwise) and France should be our number one ally, not America.

Ironic really that, according to the latest polls, France tops the league as the best place to live for quality of life and the UK is somewhere around 36th.