It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by CameronFox
What time did he call Larry? I don't know. It was before 4pm, thats all I know. No matter, because the time Chief Nigro called Silverstien is IMO irrelevant.
PULL is a term that means to bring down a building. There are lots of ways to bring down a building. Fire rescue units have the knowledge and equipment to cut beams.
Yes the time of of the call is important if it was timmed to the builidng collapse and how long the firemen had been pulled out of the building.
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by CameronFox
What time did he call Larry? I don't know. It was before 4pm, thats all I know. No matter, because the time Chief Nigro called Silverstien is IMO irrelevant.
PULL is a term that means to bring down a building. There are lots of ways to bring down a building. Fire rescue units have the knowledge and equipment to cut beams.
Yes the time of of the call is important if it was timmed to the builidng collapse and how long the firemen had been pulled out of the building.
Originally posted by TruthSeekerMP
The problem is, there was NO manual firefighting operations going on within WTC7 since 11:30 am (I believe - check the FEMA report for an exact time, I dont have the time to do so right now). The timestamps are very important simply because if there was a phonecall or decision made by Silverstein for the building to come down, and that was following the end of manual firefighting operations within the building, then why would Silverstein mean that he wanted to pull the firefighters from the building? (which is his rebuttal to the truth movement regarding that quote)
Originally posted by CameronFox
A building owner does NOT have ANY authority over the operations of the fighting of a fire.
Originally posted by CameronFox
truth,do you have a link to that section of the FEMA report?
Originally posted by Griff
In regards to the "pull it" comment. Silverstein made his millions by buying buildings and demolishing them. He did not make them by being a firefighter. So, what do you think Larry's exposure to the term "pull it" would be? Would it be to demolish a building or to pull firefighting operations? I would say he would be more familiar with the demolition term pull than the firefighting term. Just MO.
So, why was Silverstein even involved or notified in the first place?
The man owned the skyscraper....I would think it was a common courtesy to let the guy know his building was going to probably collapse.
Originally posted by CameronFox
The man owned the skyscraper....I would think it was a common courtesy to let the guy know his building was going to probably collapse.
"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse." –Larry Silverstein
Originally posted by TruthSeekerMP
Originally posted by CameronFox
truth,do you have a link to that section of the FEMA report?
Page 21 of 32:
"In addition, the firefighters made the decision fairly early on not to attempt to fight the fires, due in part to the damage to WTC 7 from the collapsing towers. Hence, the fire progressed throughout the day fairly unimpeded by automatic or manual suppression activites"
Page 23 of 32:
"It appears that the sprinklers may not have been effetive due to the limited water on site, and that the development of the fires was not significantly impeded by the firefighters because manual firefighting efforts were stopped fairly early in the day."
Page 24 of 32 (The "Blunt Smoking Gun"):
"5.6 - 5.6.1 Probable Collapse Initiation Events - WTC 7 collapsed approximately 7 hours after the collapse of WTC 1. Preliminary inidications were that, due to lack of water, no manual firefighting actions were taken by FDNY."
Source: FEMA Report Chapter 5 - WTC 7
During the 1980s Silverstein Properties acquired a major amount of space in a neglected area of midtown, occupied by warehouses and parking lots, west of the developed part of West 42nd Street and north of the new Javits Convention Center on West 34th Street. The slump in business activity, a necessary rezoning, and a subsequent lawsuit prevented Silverstein from developing this tract until 1999, when the company began construction of a $400 million, 1,700-unit rental residential project encompassing the entire block bounded by West 41st and 42nd streets and 11th and 12th avenues, just east of the West Side Highway and the Hudson River. Silverstein moved ahead on this project in the face of opposition by both the city and state, which for a time denied him tax-exempt financing because they wanted the site for an expansion of the convention center.
/z6zyc
We have never once heard the term 'pull it' being used to refer to the explosive demolition of a building, and neither has any blast team we've spoken with. The term is used in conventional demolition circles, to describe the specific activity of attaching long cables
to a pre-weakened building and maneuvering heavy equipment(excavators, bulldozers
etc) to 'pull' the frame of the structure over onto its side for further dismantlement.This author and our research team were on site when workers pulled over the six story remains of WTC6 in late fall 2001, however we can say with certainty that a similar operation would have been logistically impossible at Ground Zero on 9/11, physically impossible for a building the size of WTC7, and the structure did not collapse
in that manner anyway. In the weeks following 9/11, several Protec building inspectors and staff photographers,including this author, were contracted by demolition teams to document the deconstruction
and debris removal processes at Ground Zero. These processes included the mechanical pull-down of the remains of the U.S. Customs Building (WTC 6) and various other activities occurring simultaneously throughout the site.
Originally posted by Griff
So, you are saying that in all the confusion, the fire department chief thought it best to call the building owner to see if he should pull his fighters back? I find that really hard to believe.
Silverstein says that he said to the fire chief that "we've lost enough life that the best thing to do would be to pull it." That in my mind means that Silverstein is the one to suggest pulling, not the fire department. The fire department made the decision to pull AFTER Silverstein suggested it. So, yes, it WAS Silversteins decision to pull, not Nigro's.
Edit: Here's the quote:
"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse." –Larry Silverstein
You can clearly see that Silverstein is the one to suggest pulling. Then THEY (fire department) made the decision to pull. It was still Larry's suggestion (at least according to him).
Silverstein says that he said to the fire chief that "we've lost enough life that the best thing to do would be to pull it."
"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse." –Larry Silverstein
Originally posted by CameronFox
you find THAT hard to believe...but what you DONT find hard to believe...is that a Fire Chief who just saw his boss crushed in tons of rubble...decides he better call the owner of the WTC7 and ASK him what to do? THEN, the owner tells him to blow up the building. SO the newly appointed Chief gives the order to clear a collapse zone do they can blow up the building.
Griff...what you JUST proved is how the manipulation of a couple words can CHANGE the meaning....You posted TWO DIFFERENT quotes
That is not accurate...as you posted the REAL quote in an edit
Originally posted by CameronFox
Then they said it suffered some form of structural damage.
one of the chiefs
pulled us all out because they said 7 was going to come down.
Originally posted by Griff
I'm going a little off topic here but I want to ask you a question CameronFox. I was browsing your post history and noticed that at least 99.99% of your posts are from something regarding 9/11. Why the obsession with "debunking" every single post about 9/11? Looks a little fishy to me why someone would come to this site just to debunk 9/11 theories?
Originally posted by Griff
I put the external tags in for you. Anyway, I'd like to know who "they" were. They said it suffered some form of structural damage? I thought he was there? Couldn't he see the damage himself? Also, if no one was in the building, how did "they" know the extent of the structural damage?
Also, the second quote to me sounds like "they" were the fire chiefs. How did the firechiefs know that "7 was going to come down"? Are they fortune tellers?
So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all,
but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building,
with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good. But
they had a hose line operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually
they pulled back too. – Capt. Chris Boyle /e7bzp
They put another engine company in there which augmented us. And the stream was even good
enough to almost reach Tower 7. And then what happened was, we heard this rumbling sound and
my father pulled us all back and then with that Tower 7 came down. –Firefighter Peter Blaich
www.firehouse.com...
...Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak
and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came
down. –FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn
graphics8.nytimes.com...
Originally posted by CameronFox
Actually I came in as a "Truth Seeker"....not a debunker. Although I feel both sides want the truth.
I have stated in many posts that I think the pressure should be on Bush as to find out what he KNEW...and DIDN'T do. Not the accusations of what CTers claim he DID DO.
Is it an obsession? Nah...more like a hobby. I like reading all the different information that is posted. There are quite a few intelligent people in here that I enjoy talking with.
If i see lies ...or false information, i like to point it out.
Lets face it...if everyone agreed on this Forum...it would be damn boring.