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The End of the World.. as we know it

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posted on Dec, 10 2003 @ 10:51 AM
Peak oil. What does that mean exactly? It means at the current rate of world energy consumption, the world is on track to run out of oil by 2037. Some go further, saying the U.S. government has fudged studies and that we will actually see the end of it by 2010 - or even by 2004. Oil reserves on this planet are finite. Extraction is becoming more and more costly. World consumption is growing at a rate that will soon eclipse the ability of any government to satisfy demand. Our lives - at least in the West - are bound like a siamese twin to the oil economy. What does this mean to nations who, for two to four generations have lived life based on a gasoline-fueled society? If the spigets ran dry tomorrow, what would actually happen?
Two things leap to mind immediately. Food (farming) and transport. For years now, the government has systematically bought out small farms and consolidated the industry, not to mention importing foods that we should and could be growing here. All hail "free trade." In order to feed our population, food must be transported to every corner of this nation from the opposite corner. Gone are the days of local production on a big enough scale to feed the people. In order to get the food to market, transfer trucks must be fueled to make the journey. If the oil ran out tomorrow, we would have a crisis on our hands. Stores would, at least, temporarily run out of stock. As a result people would go hungry and the accompanying crime and looting would occur. This could fall under the auspices of instituting martial law - at least in certain harder hit areas.
The other problem, that would literally throw our society back at least 100 years is the fact that we are so suburbanized now. Think of the average person's commute to work. We are a nation held captive to sprawl. If the oil ran out, a multitude of people would become quickly unemployed because of their inability to get to work. That is a scary prospect. The determined among us would have to ride a bike or a horse or walk incredibly long distances. It would be a nightmare. How many of us think about these possibilites? It seems no one in the mainstream media will even begin to broach this subject.
We must be out of our collective minds not to demand of our leaders a new energy policy - NOW! Before the axe falls. And it will! It is only a matter of time. We know there are alternative forms of fuel. And we also know that the big oil, transporation and military interests have done everything in their power to suppress the alternatives. If we don't do something about this now, if we don't put an end to this suicidal energy policy, we will all suffer untold misery when the oil runs dry. Everyone will suffer!

Write, call, email and fax your congressmen and Senators and demand they focus their energies on finding and implementing alternative forms of fuel. Our whole way of life depends on it.

Here's an accompanying article from the Guardian:

Bottom of the barrel

The world is running out of oil - so why do politicians refuse to talk about it?

Tuesday December 2, 2003
The Guardian

The oil industry is buzzing. On Thursday, the government approved the development of the biggest deposit discovered in British territory for at least 10 years. Everywhere we are told that this is a "huge" find, which dispels the idea that North Sea oil is in terminal decline. You begin to recognise how serious the human predicament has become when you discover that this "huge" new field will supply the world with oil for five and a quarter days.

Every generation has its taboo, and ours is this: that the resource upon which our lives have been built is running out. We don't talk about it because we cannot imagine it. This is a civilisation in denial.

the rest:

posted on Dec, 10 2003 @ 10:57 AM

If the world runs out, there are oil alternatives that currently can't compete with the price of a barrel of oil. Most prominently ethynol (grain alcohol) from corn. The most combustion engines can use it it's just more expensive to use.

There still alot of oil out there, it's just a matter of how much do you want to pay to get it. (Iran, the Spratley Islands, the North Sea, the Northern Artic shelf etc.)


posted on Dec, 10 2003 @ 11:16 AM
What each of you say is perfectly correct of course. Alternatives to oil can be substituted but, eventaully, the concept surely has to be analogous to us all orbiting a star, the Sun, in a finite-sized spaceship, the Earth.

People are doing something about this - have a look at:

But, *please* do inform those in power of the urgency!!

posted on Dec, 10 2003 @ 11:37 AM
Yes, there are other forms of fuel. But they are being suppressed by the powers that be. That is why we must demand that our representatives be responsive to the people not the powerful interests. Also, we have to start right now to develop these alternatives so that in the future they are not so expensive and hard to work with.

There is ample proof that the world's oil reserves are quickly dwindling and demand is growing. Take China, for example, their population is rapidly increasing and their demand for oil is ever rising. That puts China and the West in direct competition for remaining reserves. War with them will be the unavoidable outcome. Our governments will not share. Look at what happened with regard to Iraq. The Neo-Cons in the Bush administration decided - long before 2000 - that they must shore up those reserves as a national security strategy. Forget that bogus shyte about WMD. That was a ploy - as described by Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz. He basically said, "It's the oil, stupid."

Take a look at Mike Ruppert's site From the Wilderness:
He has thoroughly covered this issue of Peak Oil. The site is a tremendous resource for anyone wishing to understand the depth and gravity of this problem.

I don't know about ya'll, but I fought in the last Gulf War, now my little bro. is gonna have to go to Iraq and this is all so tragic and unnecessary. We're blowing our nation's blood and treasure to enrich a small group of elites who would rather sell humanity down the river than give up their power. It's time to hold our leaders accountable for putting our nation in such jeapardy

posted on Dec, 10 2003 @ 03:51 PM
Not to knock the immenet implications at all, but I've been hearing the prophetic end date for oil roll back from the 80's on.

I think those that make money on continued resource exploitation, use the very propaganda of the progressives against them in this way, as in 'that's what you were saying 30 years ago.'

I liked the recent DNC debate in Iowa (I think) where they focused on the corn methanol issue more as a first step than replacement solution. Let's face it, you can't reason with an SUV owner...they need to be slowly conned into progress, just as they've been conned into fighting it.

posted on Dec, 10 2003 @ 04:02 PM
so, we may possibly run out of oil in 20 days

the corn fuel is talked about here in my state a bit. They had something on NPR about this not so long ago. Using corn gas as a transition fuel until hyrdogen.

I agree, in part, with Rant here: How long have we been almost out of oil? But, Rant, why pick on the SUV owners? I mean, my commute adds up to over 400 miles a week. That is on top of other times that I drive. What about an SUV owner who doesn't drive that much, at all? I think we should be killing the commuters like myself

posted on Dec, 10 2003 @ 04:07 PM
Sorry Bob

Does it help if I admit I'm an SUV owner?

It's just an 'ism' of sorts to mean, un-concerned.

I'll refrain. I used to have a Honda Civic VX that got nutty mileage, like 60's or 70mpg on the highway. I just MISS that car!!!

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 07:39 AM
We are at war for the Caspian Sea Basin and Iraq because of the dwindling remaining reserves. Securing the world's remaining known oil reserves is the only foreign policy this administration can or will think of. Partly for their personal greed and largely for world dominance. The Bushies are making enemies, this very moment, out of our staunchest allies. And its all over control of the oil. With the possibility of OPEC turning to the Euro for its trade currency and the possibility of the dollar's collapse on the horizon, this administration is playing Russian Roulette pissing off France, Germany and Russia the way they are. Economic warfare is just as deadly as shock and awe, believe it or not. The United States cannot pit itself against the world's powers combined and sustain its hegemony. We're goin' down if things don't change, and change fast.

One thing I like about Howard Dean is that he has said after his election, he will go on a 'world tour' to mend relations with our allies. Diplomatically, that would be a great first step.

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 08:37 AM
The dollar hit a new low Monday against the Euro and Opec's grumbling. It's only a matter of time until they switch.

OPEC may trade oil in euros to compensate for dollar decline
Associated Press
Caracas (Venezuela), December 10

OPEC Secretary General Alvaro Silva said the organisation is considering trading oil in euros to compensate for the US dollar's decline in value.
full article:


posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 09:02 AM
This thread has mentioned China a few times and I suspect that there is a full on trade war happening as a land grab behind the scenes that's not making it to the publics attention.

Below are some headlines that I have saved over the last two months. After reading this you may see that the politics and greed has already started


China Diverts Dollars To Buy Oil

Although still intervening heavily in the foreign-exchange market,
in the last few months China has radically scaled back its purchases of
United States bonds.

In September, Chinese institutions were actually net
sellers of U.S. government and agency debt by $2.8 billion, even though foreign
reserves rose by $19 billion. (sold agencies)

Now, economists and market strategists are beginning to wonder what Beijing is
doing with all the dollars it is buying.
Chinese state media provided a partial answer in early December,
reporting that Beijing plans to build up a 90-day, 50-million-tonne strategic
oil reserve.

At current crude prices of around $30 a barrel, that will cost
China $10 billion. Bankers and brokers in Hong Kong predict further
large purchases of strategic materials, together with the possible acquisition
of equity stakes in overseas suppliers over the coming year.

If pursued, China's diversification away from U.S. government bonds will be bad
news for Washington, which has relied heavily on China's debt purchases to fund
its fiscal and current-account deficits. In Asia, some economists even say
Washington had it coming, suggesting that the switch

This could develope to full trade war;

Steelmaker warns west of exports from China
By Rebecca Bream
Published: November 30 2003 22:15 | Last Updated: November 30 2003 22:15

Lakshmi Mittal, the owner of the world's second largest steel company, will warn
western steelmakers on Monday that China represents the biggest threat to their
livelihoods and substantial consolidation is required if they are to survive.

China "firmly opposes" US quota move
( 2003-11-19 14:25) (

China firmly opposed the US move to slap new import quotas on textile products
from China, a spokesman for the Ministry of Commerce said in Beijing Wednesday.

"The Chinese government expresses deep regret and firmly opposes this decision,"
said Chong Quan, spokesman for the Ministry of Commerce. He hinted that China
may take the issue up with the World Trade Organisation.

China Scraps Soybean Visit as Textile Makers Seek Retaliation

Nov. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Chinese trade officials scrapped a
visit to the U.S. to meet soybean sellers this week, raising
concern the government may retaliate after the Bush administration
placed curbs on some textile imports.

China Planning Military Space Force
BEIJING (SAPA) -- China is researching lasers and missiles that could attack satellites as part of a planned "deterrent" space force, said officials quoted by state media on Monday.

The success of Shenzhou V, China's first manned space mission, means, "Chinese people have already obtained the key to commanding the heights of space," a People's Liberation Army (PLA) official involved in the Shenzhou V project told the weekly China Business Post.

Bush's Bad Currency

President Bush is embarking on his six-day Asian trip just as the world economy
shows marked improvement. Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong are recovering from
slumps, and even moribund Germany shows signs of life. The biggest threat to all
of this would be if China and Japan take Mr. Bush's advice to manipulate their
allegedly "undervalued" exchange rates. The President is playing election year
politics here but he's also playing with fire.

Commission Advises Congress on China s Currency, Industrial Policies

Contact: Bob Bean 202-624-1452


Web site:

Today the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission sent findings and
recommendations to the Congressional Leadership for addressing aspects of
China s exchange rate and industrial policies that are harming U.S. exporters
and U.S. manufacturing competitiveness. The Commission held a hearing on
September 25, 2003 examining China s Industrial, Investment, and Exchange
Rate Policies: Impact on the U.S. The Commission developed its findings and
recommendations after weighing the testimony of Members of the House and Senate,
economists, academics, and representatives of business and labor.

China Imposes Limits On Foreign Investors - FT
2003-10-09 18:51 (New York)

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Worried about possible currency speculation by
investment banks, China during the last month has stalled the expansion
of a
plan to attract foreign investment funds into its domestic capital
markets, The
Financial Times reported Thursday, citing bankers.
The central government has approved substantially lower amounts than
investment banks had applied for, significantly restricting the amounts
banks can put into the market on behalf of their clients, the paper
reported on
its Web site.

China Orders 3 Mln Tons of U.S. Soybeans to Boost Stockpile
2003-09-25 00:00 (New York)

China Orders 3 Mln Tons of U.S. Soybeans to Boost Stockpile

Sept. 25 (Bloomberg) -- China, the world's biggest
soybean buyer, placed new orders for about 3 million metric
tons of the oilseed for delivery from the middle of November
to December to boost its stockpile, the government said.
China boosted purchases because buyers anticipate
prices will rise further in the coming months, the China
National Grain & Oils Information Center, a state grain
bureau affiliate, said in a report.

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 09:10 AM
Great roundup LAW!

The U.S. is on a disasterous course. The end of this road we're riding ends in the Mid-East, the U.S. facing off against Russia AND China. It's inevitable. We all need the remaining oil to fuel our militaries and societies.

Americans can either wake up now and change the current leadership, which will only stave off the inevitable, really; prepare for economic meltdown in every way we can; or, remain in complete denial - or simply in the dark.

The writing is on the wall for anyone willing to read it.

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 10:30 AM

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Great roundup LAW!

The U.S. is on a disasterous course. The end of this road we're riding ends in the Mid-East, the U.S. facing off against Russia AND China. It's inevitable. We all need the remaining oil to fuel our militaries and societies.

Americans can either wake up now and change the current leadership, which will only stave off the inevitable, really; prepare for economic meltdown in every way we can; or, remain in complete denial - or simply in the dark.

The writing is on the wall for anyone willing to read it.


EastCoastKid & LAW...both good inputs...but the rather large topic, having many chapters, is not so easily condensed...

...indeed, the world is changing...but Deans' ideas are not so radical from todays same-old-same-old...his is just another different face...reciting the refrains of old

I'm noticing that diesels are getting more ubiquitous (as opposed to the MPG & 'fleet' guidelines that have been co-opted from relevancy) AND THATS A START...for the [end of the world, as we know it] new world era...

I'm noticing that the USA, after losing the textiles, manufacturing, steel, and various communication-services to less expensive overseas providers...
is evolving into a two tier system: haves & havenots,

technitions & service industry personnel, servicing the needs of the executive/political/techocrats

just watch as the contrived energy shortage; causes more aggressions, majorchanges in american lifestyles, etc.

I;m expecting the USA to increase its market share of war armaments...Assume unilateral police powers to contain & destroy(proven or suspected) chemical & biological caches, starting first with 'terrorist states' and then world-wide-->this would be 'above soverenty' !!

yes guys, theres a lot that bush administration, & neo-cons, PNAC, are plowing forward with, rightly? or wrongly?...and the Muslim/Islamic Revival is the wildcard, the chaos element, that was not recognized...ever since the start of modern terrorism at the munich olympiad.

what else ya'll got, beyond FEER & and the other usual list of culprits??

enjoy the journey
riff raff

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Bob88
so, we may possibly run out of oil in 20 days

the corn fuel is talked about here in my state a bit. They had something on NPR about this not so long ago. Using corn gas as a transition fuel until hyrdogen.

I agree, in part, with Rant here: How long have we been almost out of oil? But, Rant, why pick on the SUV owners? I mean, my commute adds up to over 400 miles a week. That is on top of other times that I drive. What about an SUV owner who doesn't drive that much, at all? I think we should be killing the commuters like myself

Do you remember Gasahol?...they used it widely in the gas crunch of the late 70s to early is made from corn. My father was on the team of scientists that help develop the means of producing and refining it. There are a whole bunch of alternative fuels that can be made.
I too rely on my car for a gas would mean no income from my primary job for me. Although I drive a car that gets 20 mpg...which isn't too bad...I would regret owning an Expedition that go only 7 mpg...sheeesh.

Right now there is a race goin' on to the Caspian Sea...with pipelines planned from there to the Persian Gulf..the other to the Mediterranean Sea. Take notice of all of the countries that lie within those boundaries..and who is at war...think about it. The American government just OKed not too long ago to hand over millions of acres of protected national forests to the drilling and exploration of oil and natural gas...there is gonna be pumpers all around us soon. But..since it is National one owns the one to profit..except for the oil companies....EGADS!!

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 11:10 AM
i think that the end of the world will not at all be the end of mankind, by the time the world ends we will be in space colonies because the quality of air will be to low

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 11:18 AM
Xen & Riff -
Good posts, too.

I'd be screwed right now if they said, "oh by the way, there's no more oil." There's no way I could presently get to my job every day. I'd either have to move within walking distance and that's ungodly expensive, or I'd have to get a job where I live. But then again, everyone's living and employment would shift. It'd be chaotic.

I have a pickup truck that I love. But I hate the gas mileage. The last couple years I've had to pay $15 and $20 bucks to fill up the tank, as opposed to $10 or less.
I can't imagine having to fill up the tank of an SUV or a HUM-V.

Speaking of that.. HUM-V... Don't mean to offend any owners of one out there, but.. After I came home from the war, I never wanted to see or ride in another Hummer again for the rest of my life. These people I see driving 'em around in the city wouldn't know how to drive one in the mud any better than a 3 yr old could. Stoopid Fu#$ It's ridiculous. And grotesquely expensive. Utter decadence.

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 11:59 AM
I have a 96 military edition hum-v

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 01:54 PM
Firstly, I'd like to say well done ECK for starting an excellent post
and to everyone else for contributing

now my rant.....
Filling up the tank of a pickup for $15-$20?
I live in Scotland, and on our north eastern coast is the North Sea. What really pi55es me off is the fact that all this oil is around us, yet to fill up my 1.6 saloon costs me around 37 ($53 approx at today's rates). I dread to think what it'd cost to fill a pickup!
We don't need to import oil from other countries yet our government levies such huge taxation that the costs of running a car are astronomical compared to countries such as the US.

When the oil runs out, bye bye to the huge conglomerates. I bet they've already suppressed other forms of energy than the ones already mentioned, all for one purpose - to line the fat cat's pockets.

I can't wait for the day the oil runs out and other forms of fuel need to be used. Hopefully when that time comes things will be different. I can also envision ECK's scenario about wars over it. Fingers crossed it doesn't happen.

just my $0.02

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 02:31 PM
Whew, Funlovingcriminal, that's alotta jack! (the $53 you mentioned.) Yeah, 10-15 bucks is expensive for us here. Like I said, I used to be able to ride to my heart's content on 10 bucks or less a week. But its been steadily climbing. And here in the Southeast, it's cheaper than anywhere else in the U.S. I'd really be bitchin' if I lived in Cali. or back in Arizona.

I don't know how folks in SUV's can afford to go anywhere. They pay upwards of what you do, FLC, for a full tank of gas or deisel. Mine uses regular which is as cheap as you're gonna get.

I just read that before the Iraqi invasion, gas there ran like 5 cents a gallon. Can ya'll believe that? That would be sweet.

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 02:41 PM
5c a gallon? I wish, lol.
Imagine how much it'd cost to run a SUV over here.
A couple of years ago, the refineries here were blockaded for several days. It caused chaos throughout the whole of the UK for days. They were demanding price drops for petrol. A few pence was taken off a gallon, but surprise surprise a couple of years later, it's more expensive than it was before!. It sickens me

[Edited on 11/12/03 by funlovincriminal]

posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 02:45 PM
How in the H E double L can you guys afford those prices?

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