The End of the World.. as we know it

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posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
How in the H E double L can you guys afford those prices?


With great difficulty, my friend. at the moment it's around $6.33(US equivalent) a gallon. I hate paying that much




posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

I just read that before the Iraqi invasion, gas there ran like 5 cents a gallon. Can ya'll believe that? That would be sweet.


Does that not speak volumes about this war? And that's not the 'low' in Iraq. Actually the Iraqis are furious the War almost doubled the price of gas overnight from their usual 3 cents a gallon.

The relativity of money value totally eludes most of us. The news talks about how the US has already 'improved' the Iraqi economy by raising the average police pay from $20 a month to $200 overnight. Like all prices won't skyrocket accordingly.

All dollar values in my opine are arbitrarily inflated by consumerism. Advertising, marketing and packaging are what we're paying for. With oil, it's merely subsidizing the strangle hold of a few top echelon. The goal of globalism is parity of consumers. Price parity of sorts.

Fossil fuels remain the 'gold' of energy. Gold as in valuable by limit of resources. Is any corporation really eager to solve all the worlds problems? If we mastered super heavy, totally clean elemental energy, you think we'd know about?

What's the dollar incentive to curing "disease" anyway?

Capitalism seeks treatments, not cures.



posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

I just read that before the Iraqi invasion, gas there ran like 5 cents a gallon. Can ya'll believe that? That would be sweet.


Does that not speak volumes about this war? And that's not the 'low' in Iraq. Actually the Iraqis are furious the War almost doubled the price of gas overnight from their usual 3 cents a gallon.

The relativity of money value totally eludes most of us. The news talks about how the US has already 'improved' the Iraqi economy by raising the average police pay from $20 a month to $200 overnight. Like all prices won't skyrocket accordingly.

All dollar values in my opine are arbitrarily inflated by consumerism. Advertising, marketing and packaging are what we're paying for. With oil, it's merely subsidizing the strangle hold of a few top echelon. The goal of globalism is parity of consumers. Price parity of sorts.

Fossil fuels remain the 'gold' of energy. Gold as in valuable by limit of resources. Is any corporation really eager to solve all the worlds problems? If we mastered super heavy, totally clean elemental energy, you think we'd know about?

What's the dollar incentive to curing "disease" anyway?

Capitalism seeks treatments, not cures.


Well said, Rant. It's probably true with cancer, too. Meaning they probably do have a cure, but that wouldn't be good business for pharmeceutical companies, now would it?

It's just surprising that the price of oil has remained so cheap here for so long. I'll think twice the next time I start to bitch about it!



posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 03:46 PM
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This just in.. concerning Halliburton..

High Payments to Halliburton for Fuel in Iraq
By DON VAN NATTA Jr.

Published: December 10, 2003


he United States government is paying the Halliburton Company an average of $2.64 a gallon to import gasoline and other fuel to Iraq from Kuwait, more than twice what others are paying to truck in Kuwaiti fuel, government documents show.

Halliburton, which has the exclusive United States contract to import fuel into Iraq, subcontracts the work to a Kuwaiti firm, government officials said. But Halliburton gets 26 cents a gallon for its overhead and fee, according to documents from the Army Corps of Engineers.

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The cost of the imported fuel first came to public attention in October when two senior Democrats in Congress criticized Halliburton, the huge Houston-based oil-field services company, for "inflating gasoline prices at a great cost to American taxpayers." At the time, it was estimated that Halliburton was charging the United States government and Iraq's oil-for-food program an average of about $1.60 a gallon for fuel available for 71 cents wholesale.

But a breakdown of fuel costs, contained in Army Corps documents recently provided to Democratic Congressional investigators and shared with The New York Times, shows that Halliburton is charging $2.64 for a gallon of fuel it imports from Kuwait and $1.24 per gallon for fuel from Turkey.

A spokeswoman for Halliburton, Wendy Hall, defended the company's pricing. "It is expensive to purchase, ship, and deliver fuel into a wartime situation, especially when you are limited by short-duration contracting," she said. She said the company's Kellogg Brown & Root unit, which administers the contract, must work in a "hazardous" and "hostile environment," and that its profit on the contract is small.

The price of fuel sold in Iraq, set by the government, is 5 cents to 15 cents a gallon. The price is a political issue, and has not been raised to avoid another hardship for Iraqis.

The Iraqi state oil company and the Pentagon's Defense Energy Support Center import fuel from Kuwait for less than half of Halliburton's price, the records show.

Ms. Hall said Halliburton's subcontractor had had more than 20 trucks damaged or stolen, nine drivers injured and one driver killed when making fuel runs into Iraq.

She said the contract was also expensive because it was hard to find a company with the trucks necessary to move the fuel, and because Halliburton is only able to negotiate a 30-day contract for fuel. "It is not as simple as dropping by a service station for a fill-up," she said.

A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers, Bob Faletti, also defended the price of imported fuel.

"Everyone is talking about high costs, but no one is talking about the dangers, or the number of fuel trucks that have been blown up," Mr. Faletti said. "That's the reason it is so expensive." He said recent government audits had found no improprieties in the Halliburton contract.

Gasoline imports are one of the largest costs of Iraqi reconstruction efforts so far. Although Iraq sits on the third-largest oil reserves in the world, production has been hampered by pipeline sabotage, power failures and an antiquated infrastructure that was hurt by 11 years of United Nations sanctions.

Nearly $500 million has already been spent to bring gas, benzene and other fuels into Iraq, according to the corps. And as part of the $87 billion package for Iraq and Afghanistan that President Bush signed last month, $18.6 billion will be spent on reconstruction projects, including $690 million for gasoline and other fuel imports in 2004.

From May to late October, Halliburton imported about 61 million gallons of fuel from Kuwait and about 179 million from Turkey, at a total cost of more than $383 million.

A company's profits on the transport and sale of gasoline are usually razor-thin, with companies losing contracts if they overbid by half a penny a gallon. Independent experts who reviewed Halliburton's percentage of its gas importation contract said the company's 26-cent charge per gallon of gas from Kuwait appeared to be extremely high.



posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

It's just surprising that the price of oil has remained so cheap here for so long. I'll think twice the next time I start to bitch about it!


Seriously
Or conversely that we believe a coupon for a $9.99 pizza is the deal of the century!!! When $10 could feed a village elsewhere.

I used to do Price Point analysis (among other marketing and polling efforts) and have to tell you the percieved 'deal' barriors are well known by industry.

The $999 computer deal is a scam! But I digress
I got my real intro to the world of consumer conspiracy working in Big Tobacco which I have a lifetime contract not to disclose, but I'll share "hypothetical anonymous theories" if anyone let's me know they're interested .



posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 08:18 PM
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I am, rant.

And, $6+ a gallon

I noticed the gas was $1.17 a gallon today. (too bad I filled up yesterday when it was at $1.28/gallon)



posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 08:28 PM
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well that is why i am going to get a hydrogen powered car. many companies are already working on that, and even though they will cost more than regular engines for cars, hydrogen is a near limitless source.



posted on Dec, 11 2003 @ 08:43 PM
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Let me just add that gasoline isn't the only problem when the oil runs out. Think of all the products that are petroleum based like plastics and pharmaceuticals.

Also, worldwide demand for petroleum products is growing far faster than we can secure new reserves through exploration and conservation. At some point, it will cost more energy to extract the oil than it produces.

Now that the public is becoming aware (via the internet) that peak oil could be as quick as 2010 you have to *know* the government think-tanks and elites have known this since at least the late 1950's. Knowing that they know this you can come to one of two conclusions:

1. They have alternative energy and petroleum sources in the wings waiting and ready.
2. The elite will spend the last few years securing their resources to ride out the dark ages at the expense of the masses.

If you have a third scenario i would like to hear it. Personally, I think it will be option 2.

As an aside, a "massive" new oil basin was found recently that was in the news. If every drop of the oil of the "massive" new find was pumped out of the ground it would last the world exactly 4 days.


LAW

posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 05:00 AM
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If oil runs out, just think how quickly everything falls apart. Take the recent power failure in New York as an example. People were sleeping in the streets, stranded with no way to get home.

How would you get food if the trucks cant deliver. Food in every major city would run out in a matter of days as people panic bought everything off the shelf.

Civil war would break out. Marshall Law would be enforced until they ran out of oil/Gas and food.

In America, where guns are common, a law of survival would be in place and guns fired off at a whim.

It all sounds very fictional...but imagine how you and your family in a desparate situation would react to fear, hunger or being attacked.

Look at the debt situation in California. There would be no Government support, as they have no funds.

The trap of a city material life is a nightmare if you run out of oil, forget all the alturnative sources of energy, the infrastucture is not in place and the funding, right now, with the huge amount of debt in the world could NOT finance a new national build out for an adequate power source.

If you can see the horror of this situation you need to start talking to everyone in government and friends to create a realisation that new,clean enviromentally friendly sources of energy must be thought about and implemented now.

We may have a future but our children have no chance unless we take responsibility now.



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by RANT



I got my real intro to the world of consumer conspiracy working in Big Tobacco which I have a lifetime contract not to disclose, but I'll share "hypothetical anonymous theories" if anyone let's me know they're interested .


I'm all for going to the indian reservations for smokes. No tax. Support their economy.


I got my first taste of thorough and utter waste while serving in the Army. I was astounded at how much money is wasted. It's pretty stupid and it doesn't take a genious to figure it out. I was in charge of my unit's helicopter maintenence budget, for one thing. The whole way they do business would bust any real-world business. I had to get pain medication at one point b/c the idiocy gave me headaches from hell.


[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Bob88
I am, rant.

And, $6+ a gallon

I noticed the gas was $1.17 a gallon today. (too bad I filled up yesterday when it was at $1.28/gallon)


$1.28 a gallon - i'd take that any time, Bob88. wanna trade places? lol



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 03:13 PM
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Herder, I believe the second scenario is correct.

LAW,
Excellent analysis.

Thanks for excellent contributions!



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Herder, I believe the second scenario is correct.

LAW,
Excellent analysis.

Thanks for excellent contributions!


well said, m8. I agree with you, ECK.
paints a pretty bleak picture, doesn't it? time to get the walking boots out and get rid of the car



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 03:36 PM
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Boy, if I could, I'd be buyin that farm out in the country, growin myself a nice big garden, stockin the pond up with fish, stockpiling everything from gasoline to bullets and investing in some big dogs and horses. Fo real. I'm already trying to stock up on anything and everything I can think of - every chance I get.



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Boy, if I could, I'd be buyin that farm out in the country, growin myself a nice big garden, stockin the pond up with fish, stockpiling everything from gasoline to bullets and investing in some big dogs and horses. Fo real. I'm already trying to stock up on anything and everything I can think of - every chance I get.


lol
I live out in the country, got a big garden and 2 big dogs. can't be bothered mucking out a stable, so afraid I'll have to dispense with the horses. Not allowed to get a decent gun over here either
. guess my katana and sai daggers will have to do



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Bob88
I am, rant.


E-mailed you Bob. Just a short tirade on the view from inside tobacco.



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by funlovincriminal

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Boy, if I could, I'd be buyin that farm out in the country, growin myself a nice big garden, stockin the pond up with fish, stockpiling everything from gasoline to bullets and investing in some big dogs and horses. Fo real. I'm already trying to stock up on anything and everything I can think of - every chance I get.


lol
I live out in the country, got a big garden and 2 big dogs. can't be bothered mucking out a stable, so afraid I'll have to dispense with the horses. Not allowed to get a decent gun over here either
. guess my katana and sai daggers will have to do


That's too bad about the horses, man! They're awesome - and will certainly be great for travel one of these dark days.
I saw a saying once that went something like this:

there's something about the outside of a horse that's good for the inside of a man.

They're great. Like big, curious puppy dogs. And how I love to watch them early in the morning when the steam comes off 'em. (I used to work at a horse farm)

Sounds like you got that independent thing goin' on, Funlovingcriminal. You're way ahead of me.



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 03:54 PM
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LOL @ ECK
don't need a horse - my biggest dog is still basically a pup and already over 140lbs - pretty soon I'll be able to saddle her up. Also, horses don't guard you as well as big mutha f****** scary looking dogs, lol!
I'm ready for the return to the dark ages. Got ma dogs, ma martial arts weapons, ma vodka and an attitude. who needs oil



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by funlovincriminal
LOL @ ECK
don't need a horse - my biggest dog is still basically a pup and already over 140lbs - pretty soon I'll be able to saddle her up. Also, horses don't guard you as well as big mutha f****** scary looking dogs, lol!
I'm ready for the return to the dark ages. Got ma dogs, ma martial arts weapons, ma vodka and an attitude. who needs oil


I hearya, man!


What kinda dog you got?!



posted on Dec, 12 2003 @ 04:08 PM
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got 2 - a golden labrador and a bull mastiff





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