Did the USSR ever have anything like the Sr-71 Blackbird?

Originally posted by CaptainMooPoo
well the mig21 was the most agile of the planes the f-15 was not designed to take on the mig.

Using lessons learned in Vietnam, the USAF sought to develop and procure a new, dedicated air superiority fighter.

F-15s were..

Lessons from Vietnam:

MiG-21s.

Also MiG-17s and MiG-19s.

F-15s were designed to out perform MiG-21s.

It has supposedly 900:1 kill ratio against MiG-21s..

Or so USAF claims..

Fulcrum, you are half right, using lessons learned doesn't mean it was designed to take the fighters out from that era, the us doesn't design fighters to take out fighters of earlier generations, it designs fighters to take out their counterparts, which at that time, we though, was the MiG 25, but we realized that we couldn't do what we did with the F-4, which was design a fighter that relied so intensely on it's missiles, that's what brought the F-4 down, it wasn't a dogfighter, at all, so we took what we learned from the mess of vietnam and put it into the awsome fighter we know today as an F-15

and the MiG-25 wasn't designed to take out SR-71's, it was designed to take out XB-70's

To the Soviet standard..

rolled out from Hindustan factory in 1988..



And it was one basic 'feature' of the F-15 that it must be able to beat MiG-21s.

Also i have not mentioned SR-71, XB-70 or MiG-25 as i really dont want to talk about those right now..

Im just pointing out that '21s' where one of the primary factors in design of F-15s.

Also im stating the fact that F-4 really didnt stand a change against MiG-21s and were badly mauled by them.



(Israelis used F-4s with better success.. in a2a..)



[Edited on 14-12-2003 by FULCRUM]

i'm not arguing that the US F-4's in vietnam did well, everybody who studies the era knows that early-mid vietnam era F-4's got the # kicked out of them by the MiG-21's and MiG-19's (although when the war ended that was turning around). But i'm saying that that wasn't the primary design consideration of the F-15.

With regards to the MiG-21 still being produced - the Soviets/Russians never let anything go, they still have warehouses full of World War 2 era artillery pieces and tanks

the MiG 25 comment was to others posting, not you

MiG-21MFs and F-4Es were equal,

And that is mostly because of top gun..

Your pilots and tactics were getting better..

Machines werent that much better..

90 percent of the fight is between the pilots

i agree with fulcrum , why do you think nato nick named the mig-21 the flogger...because it floged all the f-4 phantoms

But i add this:

MiG-21s NATO code was/is FISHBED.



*edit*

To add something of value to the topic:

USSR never had anything manned/operational like SR-71..

They tryed to build some planes similar to U-2 but these were failures or just prototypes..

Also USSR didnt really need these kinds of planes as they entered the space first..



[Edited on 14-12-2003 by FULCRUM]

USSR never had anything manned/operational like SR-71..

They tryed to build some planes similar to U-2 but these were failures or just prototypes..

Also USSR didnt really need these kinds of planes as they entered the space first..

I agree with all but the last. Satellites are great, but they are no match for the capability of a plane. You can bet that there is a current operational replacement....and looks like if so, they're doing a better job than before...

Problem with satellites...you can predict when they will be overhead, and work around them..... not to mention, they have to peer through more weather, and from higher up...

Originally posted by Gazrok

Problem with satellites...you can predict when they will be overhead, and work around them..... not to mention, they have to peer through more weather, and from higher up...

Actually, satellites can be tracked, by radar and telescope..

90min to orbit..

With little things one can fool em..

Like all long range sensors..

Its good to have something that can go and take a closer look..

Originally posted by porgasm
i agree with fulcrum , why do you think nato nick named the mig-21 the flogger...because it floged all the f-4 phantoms

The NATO code of "Flogger" was assigned to MiG-23 ; The MiG-21 was named "Fishbed"

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by FULCRUM
Shut your trap and study the facts..

Look for examble for my Vietnam Air war topic here in ATS..

NVAF shot down in Air to Air combat some 340 USAF/USN/USMC aircrafts, lost about 70..

MiG-21 was too much for F-4s..

Much too agile.. etc..

MiG-21 were the best planes in the skies of Vietnam.

In all Vietnamese shot down THOUSANDS of US aircrafts and helicopters.. and damaged thousands more beyond repair..

Link!

The Eagle?s history is long and distinguished. It began as a Air Force fighter study in the early 1960s and was known as the Fighter Experimental (FX). By 1967 the Air Force began development of a new high performance fighter aircraft that would be extremely agile and would be capable of gaining and maintaining air superiority through air-to-air combat. The new design had to be optimized for combat with the power and agility to overcome any current or projected Soviet threat. The F-15 was the first air-to-air fighter requested by the Air Force since the F-86 Sabre. The resulting F-15 Eagle had an unequaled combination of performance, firepower, and avionics. It was the benchmark--the plane to beat.

Experience in the Vietnam conflict showed the F-4 Phantom II to have maneuvering performance inferior to that of the Soviet-built MiG21. In response to this finding, the USAF developed a set of requirements for a dedicated air-superiority fighter with a maneuvering capability greater than any existing or foreseeable-future fighter aircraft.

Using lessons learned in Vietnam, the USAF sought to develop and procure a new, dedicated air superiority fighter. Such an aircraft was desperately needed, as no USAF aircraft design solely conceived as an air superiority fighter had become reality since the F-86 Sabre. The intervening twenty years saw a number of aircraft performing the air-to-air role as a small part of their overall mission, such as the primarily air-to-ground F-4 Phantom and the F-102, F-104 and F-106 interceptor designs. The result of the FX study was a requirement for a fighter design combining unparalleled maneuverability with state-of-the-art avionics and weaponry.

F-4 -> inferior to MiG-21s.
F-15 -> build to better MiG-21s.

Who are you trying to fool?

And what comes to the IDF/AF vs Arab airforces, Israeli pilots just were very good, Arabs at the first werent even average..

But even they did score plenty victories over Israelis in A2a especially in Jom Kippur war..

Let's take a look at the combat record between F-4 and MiG-21


F-4 vs MiG-21 : 1.68:1


MiG-21 vs F-4 kills : 89


5.10.1966 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4C (USAF)
9.10.1966 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4B (USN)
23.08.1967 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 2 x F-4D (USAF)
8.11.1967 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4D (USAF)
17.12.1967 MiG-21PF (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4C (USAF)
18.01.1968 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 2 x F-4D (USAF)
12.02.1968 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4B (USN)
23.02.1968 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4D (USAF)
7.05.1968 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4B (USN)
16.06.1968 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4J (USN)
6.12.1969 MiG-21F-13 (Egypt) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
8.02.1970 MiG-21PFS (Egypt) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
2.04.1970 MiG-21PFM (Syria) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
18.12.1971 MiG-21PFM (Vietnam) - 2 x F-4D (USAF)
27.04.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4B (USN)
10.05.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4J (USN)
10.05.1972 MiG-21PFM (Vietnam) - 2 x F-4B (USN)
11.05.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4D (USAF)
20.05.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4D (USAF)
13.06.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4E (USAF)
21.06.1972 MiG-21MF (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4E (USAF)
23.06.1972 MiG-21MF (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4D (USAF)
24.06.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4D (USAF)
- 1 x F-4E (USAF)
27.06.1972 MiG-21MF (Vietnam) - 3 x F-4E (USAF)
5.07.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 2 x F-4E (USAF)
8.07.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4E (USAF)
24.07.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4E (USAF)
29.07.1972 MiG-21MF (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4E (USAF)
30.07.1972 MiG-21MF (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4D (USAF)
26.08.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4J (USMC)
11.09.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4B (USN)
- 1 x F-4E (USAF)
12.09.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4E (USAF)
1.10.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4D (USAF)
5.10.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4D (USAF)
6.10.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4E (USAF)
12.10.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4E (USAF)
26.12.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 1 x F-4E (USAF)
27.12.1972 MiG-21 (Vietnam) - 2 x F-4E (USAF)
7.10.1973 MiG-21MF (Syria) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
7.10.1973 MiG-21FL (Syria) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
7.10.1973 MiG-21MF (Egypt) - 2 x F-4E (Israel)
8.10.1973 MiG-21FL (Syria) - 3 x F-4E (Israel)
8.10.1973 MiG-21MF (Syria) - 1 x RF-4E (Israel)
9.10.1973 MiG-21FL (Syria) - 2 x F-4E (Israel)
11.10.1973 MiG-21MF (Egypt) - 2 x F-4E (Israel)
14.10.1973 MiG-21MF (Egypt) - 4 x F-4E (Israel)
16.10.1973 MiG-21FL (Syria) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
16.10.1973 MiG-21 (Egypt) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
17.10.1973 MiG-21FL (Syria) - 2 x F-4E (Israel)
18.10.1973 MiG-21MF (Egypt) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
20.10.1973 MiG-21MF (Syria) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
21.10.1973 MiG-21MF (Syria) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
21.10.1973 MiG-21FL (Egypt) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
23.10.1973 MiG-21F-13 (Egypt) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
23.10.1973 MiG-21MF (Egypt) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
28.11.1973 MiG-21SMT (Russia) - 1 x RF-4E (Iran)
19.04.1974 MiG-21MF (Syria) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
8.09.1980 MiG-21MF (Irak) - 1 x F-4E (Iran)
25.09.1980 MiG-21MF (Irak) - 1 x RF-4E (Iran)
8.10.1980 MiG-21MF (Irak) - 1 x F-4D (Iran)
9.10.1980 MiG-21MF (Irak) - 1 x F-4D (Iran)
19.10.1980 MiG-21MF (Irak) - 1 x F-4E (Iran)
12.1980 MiG-21bis (Irak) - 2 x F-4E (Iran)
18.01.1981 MiG-21 (Irak) - 1 x F-4E (Iran)
05.1981 MiG-21MF (Irak) - 2 x F-4E (Iran)
7.05.1981 MiG-21MF (Irak) - 1 x F-4E (Iran)
10.06.1982 MiG-21bis (Syria) - 1 x F-4E (Israel)
10.1982 MiG-21MF (Irak) - 1 x F-4E (Iran)



F-4 vs MiG-21 kills : 150


26.04.1966 F-4C (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
14.07.1966 F-4C (USAF) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
5.11.1966 F-4C (USAF) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
2.01.1967 F-4C (USAF) - 7 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
6.01.1967 F-4C (USAF) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
23.04.1967 F-4C (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
26.04.1967 F-4C (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
4.05.1967 F-4C (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
20.05.1967 F-4C (USAF) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
22.05.1967 F-4C (USAF) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
10.08.1967 F-4B (USN) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
24.10.1967 F-4D (USAF) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
26.10.1967 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
26.10.1967 F-4B (USN) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
5.02.1968 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
6.02.1968 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
12.02.1968 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
9.05.1968 F-4B (USN) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
16.06.1968 F-4B (USN) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
10.07.1968 F-4J (USN) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
11.09.1969 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
11.11.1969 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
1970 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
- 1 x MiG-21 (Syria)
8.02.1970 F-4E (Israel) - 2 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
6.03.1970 F-4E (Israel) - 2 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
28.03.1970 F-4J (USN) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
30.07.1970 F-4E (Israel) - 2 x MiG-21MF (Russia)
1971 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
19.01.1972 F-4J (USN) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
21.02.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
1.03.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
30.03.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
16.04.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 3 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
6.05.1972 F-4J (USN) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
8.05.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
10.05.1972 F-4J (USN) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
10.05.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
11.05.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
23.05.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
31.05.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
31.05.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
13.06.1972 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
21.06.1972 F-4J (USN) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
21.06.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
8.07.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 3 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
18.07.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
29.07.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
29.07.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
10.08.1972 F-4J (USN) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
12.08.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
15.08.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
19.08.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
28.08.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
9.09.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
11.09.1972 F-4J (USMC) - 1 x MiG-21US (Vietnam)
12.09.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
12.09.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
16.09.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
5.10.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
6.10.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
8.10.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
12.10.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
13.10.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
15.10.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
15.10.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 2 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
21.11.1972 F-4E (Israel) - 2 x MiG-21 (Syria)
18.12.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
21.12.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
22.12.1972 F-4E (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
28.12.1972 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
28.12.1972 F-4J (USN) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
7.01.1973 F-4D (USAF) - 1 x MiG-21 (Vietnam)
8.01.1973 RF-4E (Israel) - 2 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
13.09.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 7 x MiG-21 (Syria)
7.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Syria)
- 2 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
8.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
9.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Syria)
10.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 2 x MiG-21 (Syria)
- 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
11.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
13.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 3 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
- 2 x MiG-21PF (Irak)
14.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 3 x MiG-21MF (Egypt)
15.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
17.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 3 x MiG-21 (Syria)
21.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Egypt)
- 1 x MiG-21 (Syria)
23.10.1973 F-4E (Israel) - 4 x MiG-21 (Syria)
29.04.1974 F-4E (Israel) - 4 x MiG-21 (Syria)
25.04.1981 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
26.04.1981 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
15.05.1981 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
22.09.1981 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
19.03.1982 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
4.04.1982 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
10.06.1982 F-4E (Israel) - 1 x MiG-21 (Syria)
16.07.1982 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
15.09.1982 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
16.11.1982 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
19.04.1985 F-4E (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)