The only real candidate

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
LOL! Saphie, my love, you sound like a moderate republican manager friend of mine!

He thinks I'm nuts because I believe one usage of a nuclear weapon could solve our problems, currently and for the near future.

And if you're giving our resident flaming fundamentalist an intellectual woodie, you know something just ain't right!!!

Saph, you neo-con, you!! (I love it!)

and, isn't Dean, and other dems, are on record saying things like 'the middle class' doesn't need a tax cut and he'd roll back Bush tax cuts? What's up with that???

you know, I don't know what class they consider me to be in but I know I have 3 mouths to feed, on top of my own, and considering I'm the only bread winner right now in my house it would sting if any of these dems wanted to roll back the tax cuts which would mean a couple hundred bucks less a month for me and my family. Sorry if I'm not thinking about the deficit right now. Granted, Bush isn't spending like a conservative BUT I'd hated to see the dems spending on top of their growth stunting tax hikes.

Spending: look at the recent threads detailing how so caled Conservatives are Deficit spending ( Mcain, drunk sailor, remember?)
Tax hikes: those mouths you're feeding.....think they'll be able to provide 3 square to theirs when it's their turn? based on the monumental credit card bill coming due at the same time, due to Bush's mismanagement!?!?

like I said though, Bush isn't spending like a conservative, that I will agree on. But, since when do Dems care about spending??? And, I'd rather have money spent on defense and security as opposed to art education for the homeless

[Edited on 3-12-2003 by Bob88]

Let's get one thing straight, I'm not a neo-con!!! My liberal views are set in stone: right to choose, anti-capital punishment, pro-social spending, and most definately anti-war...BUT I pay too many damn taxes and anytime someone says I should pay more I start to itch.

BT:
I disagree on how Dean wants to cut the defecit. We should be cutting spending--we should be going after corporations (like mine) that go off shore to avoid taxes. Dean said he's going to raise taxes and Zell Miller is right he's not going to win that way. I wasn't old enough to care when Clinton did it--but I'm pretty sure if he was running today talking about raising taxes I wouldn't vote for him.

Fact is if a dem said, I'm going to open up everything and do some cutting back then I'd look at that canidate more seriously. But, as it stands now they are all running that line--end the tax cuts. The tax cuts helped some of us that usually vote democrat. Some are saying they'll just roll back the highest earners...sounds like a penalty for making money to me. How is that democratic? I believe in a flat tax. I don't like the more you make, the more they take politics. How is that fair for everyone? Just because you have to doesn't mean they should get it. We have to remember all of this is our money.

As for the war on terror...Nato is in control of Afghanistan, they are basically running that front. It was sink hole before we got there. I know you didn't honestly think we'd be knee deep in peaches and cream this soon. It's going to take some time, and the people will be better off in ten years. There is a method to what seems to be madness. We have to build that country from scratch.

You talk as if Dean has promised to bring us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. As far as I know all he's done is critize Bush and use the War on Terror for political gain. The Taliban is not coming back...they don't have the fire power to come back and Saddam isn't coming back either. All the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan have is our resolve to do what's right. We can't cut and run and anyone that rambles off a list a problems without offering one solution is just hatin to get elected.

Originally posted by Dreamz
So much for Kucinich......

www.worldnetdaily.com...

Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich headlined a fund-raiser for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a group with ties to the Mideast terrorist organization Hamas and an agenda for an Islamic USA.

Any chance he did have has just been ruined by this little trip.

This website you got the article from www.worldnetdaily.com is totally Pro-Israeli : Anti-Islam. Just look at some of their "breaking news".

Nader denies appearance
with racist Muslim cleric
But organizer insists he will headline conference
with sheik who labeled Jews 'scum of humanity'.

Palestinian boy's birthmark seen as 'miracle' and 'mark of a beast'

etc. etc. etc.

The reality, Saphie, is that you're expecting to be fully vetted on a candidates platform through 1 minute soundbytes - you have to read and research for their solutions. It's just not the medium where drill down definitions and analysis are fully fleshed.
I'm not sold on any candidate yet, much less Dean.

We run both Afgan & Iraqi wars, don't kid yourself. The Taliban has regrouped; do a search on the threads within ATS.
The wars are a total cluster#; listen to the Generals - most are retired & Republican, so their tounges have not been held.
Dean, and no other candidates except Kucinnich, have said we pull out cold turkey. THEY HAVE been the only ones, however, to call exit strategies, something the White house has NEVER DONE!
As for taxes, I benefit from everything that the Bush team has done; but quite frankly, if you look to gov. good will to structure your tax shelter & liability after a certain income strata - you're retarded; so folks at my level and above don't need it. Folks making $50K a yr and have two kids need it & a whole lot more. Not the token nod that has been structured to date.

No I don't think so. But, you are trying to tell me that I don't read...and even if I do since I don't agree with you I don't understand. That's kinda silly when you think about it. Just so you know, I understand the difference between calling for an exit strategy and actually having one.

Should I know more about Dean before I decide, probably, but I'm pretty sure I'm not voting for tax hikes. If you believe I don't need a tax cut then you missed the whole point of my post, because my money is my money not the governments. You don't decide who needs their money and who doesn't. That's a sick way to look at the tax code. You make x-amount so you can afford to pay more...hell no. Just because I'm not totting around a bunch of crumb snatchers I should pay more? Don't have 'em if you can't support 'em.

Oh well. I think you bring out the worst in me so I'ma leave this alone cause I sound a lil more repugnant than I should. Even though I believe folk shouldn't look to the government for handouts but help in the lean times. If you're making 50k you should be able to raise your family pretty well...cut up the credit cards and live within your means.

Originally posted by Saphronia
No I don't think so. But, you are trying to tell me that I don't read...and even if I do since I don't agree with you I don't understand. That's kinda silly when you think about it. Just so you know, I understand the difference between calling for an exit strategy and actually having one.

Should I know more about Dean before I decide, probably, but I'm pretty sure I'm not voting for tax hikes. If you believe I don't need a tax cut then you missed the whole point of my post, because my money is my money not the governments. You don't decide who needs their money and who doesn't. That's a sick way to look at the tax code. You make x-amount so you can afford to pay more...hell no. Just because I'm not totting around a bunch of crumb snatchers I should pay more? Don't have 'em if you can't support 'em.

Oh well. I think you bring out the worst in me so I'ma leave this alone cause I sound a lil more repugnant than I should. Even though I believe folk shouldn't look to the government for handouts but help in the lean times. If you're making 50k you should be able to raise your family pretty well...cut up the credit cards and live within your means.

Not my intent to insult, my apologizes if you considered it one. Most folks have labeled Dean the "L" word, when it's true if the "L" stands for Libertarian.
Just wanted you to see that "voting for a tax hike" is not the proof in the pudding. Because we've got tax cuts now (federal), but because they were done along ideological lines & not logical ones, your overall tax burden ( state/federal/sales/property/school) is much higher.
It's a shell game - they talk butterflies & rainbows over tax cuts....and look what happens. So that $300 you got.....think those giant increases in everything else don't offset that?
Please view this thread on taxes, yergen made some steallar points.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Actually, I still don't agree with you, or Yergen. Collecting more taxes won't solve our economic issues. It's time that our government take responsiblity for its spending. It seems the more money we give them the more they waste. Who is to say they will actually pay our debts with the extra they collect? Some have said they'd use the increased revenue to fund a national healthcare system and some have said they'd use it to pay for Iraq. In the end, it doesn't matter how much they collect because congress is just going to put it in the hands of those that don't pay any taxes to begin with. We have to deal with the corruption, and as long as we're feeding the beast he does nothing but get fat, lazy, and more demanding.

Everything a president does is political. I mean, he can't walk his dog without someone taking poll to see if he got the dog lover vote. It's not a question of whether he's doing it to get re-elected for me. It's a question of do I want the government to keep bleeding me dry without any accountablity for where my money is spent? No, I don't. I want them to take the resources they have and use them responsibly. Raising taxes while the politicans keeping voting themselves pay raises and padding their campaign contributors pockets with our money isn't going to solve our problems. We need to go after the corruption and the pork.

There is more than one way to decrease the deficit. You are in favor of raising taxes, and I say cut spending. Hey, they probably should do both. Wasn't this thead about Dennis Kucinich?

Dennis Kuccinich for Secretary of .........just about anyting, the man is most definitely Cabinet worthy....just not president material, though.
I'm not for raising taxes, hell no!
I am for tax cuts, but just because those enacted by the Busadministration fall into that category does not make them the right ones. All tax cuts are not good.
Any tax cut is wrong when faced with multi-billion dollar expenditures.
"Starving the Beast", as offered by the Bush think tanks/olicy makers....that's something you favor!?!

Unless you live in a state with a stellar tax base, and the requsite ratio of residents to keep it in balance, all the shell game tax cut srategy enacted at the federal level will blowback on you hard, in the form of state/property/sales/school and any other type of tax that the state has to enact to stay solvent.

And back on thread....

Kuccinich for Cabinet!!

I favor less taxes and your avatar.

As for Dennis I think he serves us well in the house as a leader that thinks the world can be like I want it. He should make his way to the senate next. That is unless Dr. Dean decides to create that department of peace. Dennis should be its first secretary.

the best candidate is Mike Patton

Alan Keyes against Doofus Dean. Conservative against liberal. Let's see where the country really is today. Put the facts out as they are, let the politicians speak as they will act.
If the country is really wanting to leave the constitution and the KJV, let's do it, plain and clear. Quit this half-ass, sneak it in slowly brainwash crap.

And, just in case someone wants to say that Saphie is a mean fiscal conservative, what I'll bet she is saying is that if we weren't taxed to death, we could give more to charity ie. the needy, and we'd then make sure it was the true needed and not the lazy or the ones that think that children are the taxpayers' responsibility to feed. That would be the compassionate way of doing it, then the truly needy would be fed and the lazy ones would work or starve. I'll bet they'd prefer to work if they had to!

julian: who's mike patton? I did a quick google and came up empty handed.

TC: You are so right. There should be tighter rules to how we hand out aid in this country. I don't like supporting drug addicts and fat people. The real folk that need the help get a bad rap because of the folk that bilk the system. We need tougher oversight in TANF and Social Security, two programs I believe in, btw.

And, if believeing in fewer taxes and less government makes one a conservative, then I suppose ur right. But, I don't like lables...tomorrow one of the ultra conservatives will probably call me a nazi for loving freedom.

Conservatism does not equate right-wing, which can be Nazism if in the hands of a non-conservative.

Huh? OK, I'll try again. You can be right-wing and not conservative. Look at Hitler. He didn't stand for much that you'd find in either the constitution, Bill of Rights or the KJV, did he?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I'm seeing how far left some of you really are, and I find it very scary.

This coming from a facist.

No, conservative. There's no resemblance.
Gee, I wish you were more observant.
Maybe you can get help with that, too!

I like the old analogy of ideologies.

A demoratic nation-
Man milks a cow and sells the milk to the highest bidder.

A communist nation-
Man milks the cow and equally distributes the milk throughout the community.

A facist nation-
Man milks the cow, shoots the cow in the head, then pours the milk out on the ground.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Alan Keyes against Doofus Dean. Conservative against liberal.

No, read above.
Keyes vs Kuccuinich? Yes, that fits your definition.

Dean? No. A moderate, championed by a Republican, who lead a Liberal state.