Boston Air Traffic Controller Says 9/11 An Inside Job w/video

Snafu

Can you tell us who monitors the restricted airspace over the white house, capitol builgin, pentagon, etc? Who calls for jets to be scrambled to intercept? And was it different before 9/11 than after 9/11?

Originally posted by snoopy
Snafu

Can you tell us who monitors the restricted airspace over the white house, capitol builgin, pentagon, etc? Who calls for jets to be scrambled to intercept? And was it different before 9/11 than after 9/11?

a combination of people. of course the military has the main responsibility of monitoring those prohibited areas (and i cant go into detail on their procedures and exactly what units do the work). potomac approach control also monitors the area, as well as certain washington center sectors. if any of the above three entities sees a suspicious aircraft approaching that airspace, they will first attempt to call the aircraft on emergency frequencies (time permitting), and then ask for fighters to be scrambled. in the case of the faa facilities, the controllers will inform their supervisors, who will inform the operations manager, who will then call the military.

it is quite different now than it was on 9/11. before that day, there were only the prohibited areas above the white house, camp david, etc. usually only a few miles in diameter. now, however, there is an air defense zone all the way around the washington metro area, and aircraft have to be talking to atc, who insures that the military knows about the aircraft, to enter the airspace. additionally, there are new caps (combat air patrols) over sensitive areas throughout the country during certain times and on certain days....i cant go into specifics on that either.

hope that answers your question.

Thank you so much!

From an ATC point of view, what's your insight on the time it generally takes to have jets scrambled to interecept a plane when an incident arises? And Again I can only assume it's different between before and after 9/11. There seems to be this notion that planes can just always instantly be scrambled within 3 minutes anywhere at anytime.

But the problem is thier is no way flight 77 should have been flying around as long as it had been off course and into restricted airspace without an escort.

O'Brien, Danielle
At the Dulles tower, O'Brien saw the TV pictures from New York and headed back to her post to help other planes quickly land.
"We started moving the planes as quickly as we could," she says. "Then I noticed the aircraft. It was an unidentified plane to the southwest of Dulles, moving at a very high rate of speed . . . I had literally a blip and nothing more."
O'Brien asked the controller sitting next to her, Tom Howell, if he saw it too.
"I said, `Oh my God, it looks like he's headed to the White House,'" recalls Howell. "I was yelling . . . `We've got a target headed right for the White House!'"
At a speed of about 500 miles an hour, the plane was headed straight for what is known as P-56, protected air space 56, which covers the White House and the Capitol.
"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien.

[edit on 6-1-2007 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 6-1-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by snoopy
Thank you so much!

From an ATC point of view, what's your insight on the time it generally takes to have jets scrambled to interecept a plane when an incident arises? And Again I can only assume it's different between before and after 9/11. There seems to be this notion that planes can just always instantly be scrambled within 3 minutes anywhere at anytime.

before 9/11 the red tape to get fighters scrambled was pretty thick....especially during the clinton years. he managed to cut our forces back so thin that i dont think we could have defended ourselves from the girl scouts....but i doubt you want to hear my political thoughts.

since 9/11 scrambling of fighters happens quite often and theyve had alot of practice. i'm guessing at a number here, but i'd say from the time the call goes out until theyre in the air is less than five minutes.....but alot of times they are airborne so quickly that they dont really know why they were scrambled, so often there is a bit of confusion in those initial minutes. read my second post on page one for a description of one incident i was involved with in which norad dropped the ball. mistakes still happen, but in general reaction time is quite fast these days.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
But the problem is thier is no way flight 77 should have been flying around as long as it had been off course and into restricted airspace without an escort.

[edit on 6-1-2007 by ULTIMA1]

That's a pretty bold statement. Are you involved in anything related? If they had intercepted it as fast as you say they should have, it would have been a first in history would it not? The closest was tha Pyne incident which took longer. Plus that had a transponder and they weren't chasing blips of which according to snfu there were often many of. And then factor in that the pilots are dependent on NORAD, who is dependant on the ATCs, etc etc. I am just curious what you know to make a determination that there's no way it could have flown as l;ong as it could.

Also, keep in mind that the restircted airspace was only like a mile wide at the time. That is probably like a few seconds of the journey that it would have actually been in restricted air space. You are making it sound ike the second it was though to be a threat that it was in restricted airspace or something.

the payne incident i saw i live about 15 miles where that golfer crashed and i did see the jet and the millitary jets escorting that plane. I was at school during recess when the planes went over and i have been to the crash stie. I really dont know how long it took for them to find this jet but if this was just a small passenger jet and the military was involved and escorting it making sure it wasnt going to crash into A-town haha then why couldnt they find 4 missing jumbo jets. Again like i said i dont know how long it took to find it and i know we dont have much goin on over here in So. Dak but i mean come on.

Originally posted by cav01c14
I really dont know how long it took for them to find this jet but if this was just a small passenger jet and the military was involved and escorting it making sure it wasnt going to crash into A-town haha then why couldnt they find 4 missing jumbo jets.

the transponder on the payne stewart learjet was still on and atc was watching it the whole way; so it was never lost and therefore never needed to be found. transponders were turned off on the 9/11 aircraft, so all we saw (sometimes) were blips. go back and read my post reference primary targets for more info.

It took 76 minutes to intercept Payne, and that was with transponders and everything else.

Originally posted by snoopy

Also, keep in mind that the restircted airspace was only like a mile wide at the time. That is probably like a few seconds of the journey that it would have actually been in restricted air space. You are making it sound ike the second it was though to be a threat that it was in restricted airspace or something.

Well for 1 restricted airspace around the White House and Capital area is taken very serious, you do not just buzz around for a while, flight 77 was flying around for a while without transponder so it should have been called in and escorts sent up well before it got near restricted air space, also flying over the White House and Capital its a wonder it did not get picked up or even shot at by the White House area protection. Remeber the protection was beefed up after that small plane crashed onto the front lawn.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Well for 1 restricted airspace around the White House and Capital area is taken very serious, you do not just buzz around for a while, flight 77 was flying around for a while without transponder so it should have been called in and escorts sent up well before it got near restricted air space, also flying over the White House and Capital its a wonder it did not get picked up or even shot at by the White House area protection. Remeber the protection was beefed up after that small plane crashed onto the front lawn.

That airspace was and still is violated on a regular basis. But the point being that that space being restricted had nothing to do with anything because most of the events occured outside of it. What people are failing to do is understand the mindset back then. Sure it's easy to look back knowing what we know now and judge. But during that day they didn't all know the things we know now and they didn't have the opertunity to pool all their information together and piece it all together. you seem to think it was known positively which planes were hijacked, and which ones weren't, and that everyone was able to freely communicate and fully explain everything that was going on to everyone around them.

There were 5000 planes in that area who were all potential hijackings. They had no way of knowing how many planes were being hijacked and at the time they had no way of knowing it was only the 4. They had to try and land 5000 planes during this whole thing as well as track the ones that were known to be hijacked and the ones they though were hijacked and really weren't. Then they had to all communicate to each other which was difficult because all the frequnecies were jammed with traffic.

I strongy recommend you watch the documentary "grounded on 9/11" because it deals specifically with the air traffic controllers that day and includes the tracking of some of the other flights they thought were also hijacked. One of which made them evacuate all of Cleveland. It was pure chaos.

thanks for that post snoopy, but you'll find that i've already tried to explain all of that to ultima. he either just doesnt get or doesnt want to believe it.

as for the stewart flight, it didnt really take 76 minutes to intercept. i think the number you are using includes all of the time from the moment atc lost contact. they tried for quite some time to reach the pilots through emergency frequencies and company before the request was made for fighter intercept. the actual intercept itself, once the order was given, only took about 15 minutes (and if i'm not mistaken, there was a military test aircraft that was asked to go up and check things out in the interim.

Originally posted by snafu7700
thanks for that post snoopy, but you'll find that i've already tried to explain all of that to ultima. he either just doesnt get or doesnt want to believe it.

I understand that the FAA and NORAD really dropped the ball and let planes fly around without transponders and flying into restricted airspace.

They disregaurded or mishandled most of the FAA and NORAD protocols that had been in place.

yeah, we just "let them fly around without transponders" because we wanted people to die. i mean, hell, why didnt we just ask the terrorist nicely to turn the transponders back on? hell, i bet we could even have talked those nice gentlemen into returning control to the pilots (the one's they didnt kill anyway), but we just decided to let it happen.

Originally posted by snafu7700
yeah, we just "let them fly around without transponders" because we wanted people to die. i mean, hell, why didnt we just ask the terrorist nicely to turn the transponders back on? hell, i bet we could even have talked those nice gentlemen into returning control to the pilots (the one's they didnt kill anyway), but we just decided to let it happen.

Hey don't get upset at me that the FAA and NORAD dropped the ball.

I would still like to know why NORAD needed to pull aircraft away from their normal patrol areas to monitor a Russian air force exercise.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Hey don't get upset at me that the FAA and NORAD dropped the ball.

i'm not upset, and i've said several times that nobody was trained for this scenario....and i've said that everyone dropped the ball due to the lack of training. i am slighty annoyed that i have to continue to repeat the same thing over and over to you, as you ask the same questions and make the same comments over and over. if you still disagree after all of the expert info that i have given you, fine. just say so and we'll agree to disagree. but dont continue to ask questions that i have already addressed, or act like i havent repeatedly said that everyone dropped the ball on 9/11.

I would still like to know why NORAD needed to pull aircraft away from their normal patrol areas to monitor a Russian air force exercise.

i have absolutely no idea what you are referring to.

Originally posted by snafu7700
i have absolutely no idea what you are referring to.

www.norad.mil...

Sept. 9, 2001

CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN AFS, Colo. – The North American Aerospace Defense Command shall deploy fighter aircraft as necessary to Forward Operating Locations (FOLS) in Alaska and Northern Canada to monitor a Russian air force exercise in the Russian arctic and North Pacific ocean.

thanks...didnt know that. see, what you have to realize ultima, is that i am learning from you guys just as much as yall are learning from me. as i have said previously, i am not a 9/11 scholar....and i recognize that some of yall have been researching this longer than i have been a member here. i didnt come here to debunk anything except the so-called expert witness in this thread's original post. i am simply trying to give you the best info that i can give, so that when you confront the true 9/11 debunkers out there, you will be a little better prepared. at the same time, i am learning about different aspects of it from your posts. so try to keep that in mind as we proceed in the future, okay?

Originally posted by snafu7700
thanks for that post snoopy, but you'll find that i've already tried to explain all of that to ultima. he either just doesnt get or doesnt want to believe it.

as for the stewart flight, it didnt really take 76 minutes to intercept. i think the number you are using includes all of the time from the moment atc lost contact. they tried for quite some time to reach the pilots through emergency frequencies and company before the request was made for fighter intercept. the actual intercept itself, once the order was given, only took about 15 minutes (and if i'm not mistaken, there was a military test aircraft that was asked to go up and check things out in the interim.

Just want to state taht absolutely yes I am including from the minute they lost contact. Perhaps I should have said 76 minutes until intercept. But this is important because those claiming the times on 9/11 were impossible are also including the time from when contact was lost. So it would be unfair to use just the time from when the planes were in the air until intercept.

And it just further backs up the point. People are claiming that jets are scrambled within seconds of loss of contact, but in that case I think it took some 20 minutes to determine that.

So 76 minutes from lost contact to cockpit confirmation.

Originally posted by snoopy
And it just further backs up the point. People are claiming that jets are scrambled within seconds of loss of contact, but in that case I think it took some 20 minutes to determine that.

So 76 minutes from lost contact to cockpit confirmation.

You are forgetting about jets ready to scramble if they do come close to resticted airspace. Thier used to be more but after the cold war units were shut down, and you have to take into account planes that NORAD had pulled out of the area.