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Boston Air Traffic Controller Says 9/11 An Inside Job w/video

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posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 08:42 AM
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Just a question I'll throw out to you aviation "experts".


What are the wings of a missle made of?

The 150 people that saw that plane hit the light poles.....what of them ?




posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 09:09 AM
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well, i am certainly no aeronautical engineer, so i dont really know whether the light poles would reduce the structural integrity of a 757 enough to bring it out of the sky. but i do know from those physics classes i took 15 years ago that an object in motion tends to remain in motion....and a boeing 757 is one helluva big object. in my personal opinion, that fast and that close to the ground, those light poles would have just about as much chance of moving the plane from its trajectory as a pea shooter would have of shooting down a c5. but again, that's just MHO. i would agree, however, that there should be at least some debris in the vicinity of the poles.....although such debris, given that objects in motion tend to stay in motion, would most likely have continued along with the aircraft into and around the base of the building.



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by CameronFox
Just a question I'll throw out to you aviation "experts".


What are the wings of a missle made of?

The 150 people that saw that plane hit the light poles.....what of them ?



Depends on the missile, what are you looking for. Well yes 150 people said they saw a plane but was it a 757 or better yet was it flight 77.


Originally posted by snafu7700
well, i am certainly no aeronautical engineer, so i dont really know whether the light poles would reduce the structural integrity of a 757 enough to bring it out of the sky. but i do know from those physics classes i took 15 years ago that an object in motion tends to remain in motion....and a boeing 757 is one helluva big object. in my personal opinion, that fast and that close to the ground, those light poles would have just about as much chance of moving the plane from its trajectory as a pea shooter would have of shooting down a c5. but again, that's just MHO. i would agree, however, that there should be at least some debris in the vicinity of the poles.....although such debris, given that objects in motion tend to stay in motion, would most likely have continued along with the aircraft into and around the base of the building.


But last time i had aviation classes stated that a plane will not fly if the wings are sheared off by something like lightpoles and the then hitting a rather large generator. I do not think a pilot would be able to keep a plane in the air or keep it straight and level,, but we have no evidence of the plane or wings hitting the ground or any debris from the plane or wings from it hitting these obsticials.

If their were any debris where is it and why have not seen the photos of the reconstuction part of the investigation.


[edit on 16-12-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 16-12-2006 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 11:26 AM
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Ultima....

If it wasnt flight 77... where IS FLight 77? where are the passengers? The crew?

The Pentagon "no plane theory" is second only to the DEATH RAY from space knoced down the towers....

Too many witnesses. There is not one shred of evidence that backs the CT at the pentagon.
(IMO)



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by CameronFox
Ultima....

If it wasnt flight 77... where IS FLight 77? where are the passengers? The crew?

The Pentagon "no plane theory" is second only to the DEATH RAY from space knoced down the towers....

Too many witnesses. There is not one shred of evidence that backs the CT at the pentagon.
(IMO)


Well we don't know if was flight 77 or not thier is not enough evidence to show that it was flight 77, we have no physical evidence or official reports stating that it was flgiht 77. I am still doing more research to find any more information.



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 12:10 PM
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What research?? I dont understand ...people saw a plane... watch it crach into the pentagon... investigators found debris and DNA.... I dont get it ?



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 12:10 PM
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What research?? I dont understand ...people saw a plane... watch it crach into the pentagon... investigators found debris and DNA.... I dont get it ?



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by CameronFox
What research?? I dont understand ...people saw a plane... watch it crach into the pentagon... investigators found debris and DNA.... I dont get it ?


1. People saw 'A PLANE'. Thier is no proof that it was flight 77.

911research.wtc7.net...

The Pentagon BPS is the only government investigation of the crash of Flight 77 that admits to existing, but it was defined as and limited to an investigation of the performance of the building. There was no investigation into the crash by the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB).


2. What debris? Rescuers on scene saw only very small pieces.

www.stripes.com...

Rescue workers who have been through the building have reported seeing the fuselage; however, the largest pieces of the plane are about 1 by 2 feet.


3. As far as DNA, if the fire was hot enough to almost completly destroy a 60 ton aircraft it would have also destroyed the bodies and the DNA evidence (heat destroys DNA). They had to come up with new test to ID the bodies at the WTC and Pentagon, these test were not ready untill the beginning of 2002 so they could not have identified all the poeple on the plane before 2002 yet reports had them as having almost all the bodies known just days later.

www.nist.gov...

Due to the nature of the World Trade Center disaster, it quickly became evident that traditional methods for performing DNA typing were not likely to be fully successful in identifying all of the recovered remains. Traditional DNA ID methods depend on the presence of long, intact segments of DNA in order to accurately type the sample. The DNA in many of the samples recovered in this situation were so fragmented that these standard methods were ineffective.

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.










[edit on 16-12-2006 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
[
But last time i had aviation classes stated that a plane will not fly if the wings are sheared off by something like lightpoles and the then hitting a rather large generator. I do not think a pilot would be able to keep a plane in the air or keep it straight and level,, but we have no evidence of the plane or wings hitting the ground or any debris from the plane or wings from it hitting these obsticials.

If their were any debris where is it and why have not seen the photos of the reconstuction part of the investigation.


okay, think about it this way (and again, this is just my opinion). the plane is going over 500 knots and is what, 20 feet off the ground when it hit those poles? even if the wings did sheer off, pieces would not just fall to the ground right at that point, would they? objects in motion stay in motion. would the pieces not continue along the flight path into the pentagon? we are talking seconds here, or less.....and a few yards from the poles to the pentagon.....a blink of an eye at those speeds. even if the wings were completely severed from the fuselage, it would not be enough to change the trajectory of what was essentially a large missile in that small span of time, nor would the pieces necessarily stop their forward motion. make sense?



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
[
But last time i had aviation classes stated that a plane will not fly if the wings are sheared off by something like lightpoles and the then hitting a rather large generator. I do not think a pilot would be able to keep a plane in the air or keep it straight and level,, but we have no evidence of the plane or wings hitting the ground or any debris from the plane or wings from it hitting these obsticials.

If their were any debris where is it and why have not seen the photos of the reconstuction part of the investigation.


okay, think about it this way (and again, this is just my opinion). the plane is going over 500 knots and is what, 20 feet off the ground when it hit those poles? even if the wings did sheer off, pieces would not just fall to the ground right at that point, would they? objects in motion stay in motion. would the pieces not continue along the flight path into the pentagon? we are talking seconds here, or less.....and a few yards from the poles to the pentagon.....a blink of an eye at those speeds. even if the wings were completely severed from the fuselage, it would not be enough to change the trajectory of what was essentially a large missile in that small span of time, nor would the pieces necessarily stop their forward motion. make sense?


But thier are witnesses that said the planes wing tore into the ground before hitting the builidng, thier are other witnesses that said the plane itself hit the ground before hititng the building. So thier should be more debris on the outside of the building then we have seen. What happened to the debris field that should be there ?

Also if the plane hit the building with the wings intact i have seen no real wing damage on the building or where the engines hit. The only thing i have seen as far as wing damage on the builidng is this photo.

www.gamelogos.com...



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1


1. People saw 'A PLANE'. Thier is no proof that it was flight 77.


Then Tell me Ultima.. What was it? Was it a hologram? Was it a cargo plane painted like an american airliner?


2. What debris? Rescuers on scene saw only very small pieces.


Rescuers were looking for PEOPLE not plane parts...Have you actually done any research? took me all of 3 minutes to find these....upload them and post them.






There are MANY more pictures of the debris.


3. As far as DNA, if the fire was hot enough to almost completly destroy a 60 ton aircraft it would have also destroyed the bodies and the DNA evidence (heat destroys DNA). They had to come up with new test to ID the bodies at the WTC and Pentagon, these test were not ready untill the beginning of 2002 so they could not have identified all the poeple on the plane before 2002 yet reports had them as having almost all the bodies known just days later.


Please show me the source that said they have identified "bodies".



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Also if the plane hit the building with the wings intact i have seen no real wing damage on the building or where the engines hit. The only thing i have seen as far as wing damage on the builidng is this photo.



but as you have mentioned repeatedly, those thin aluminum wings are going to do very little damage....isnt that pretty consistent with the pic you just posted? furthermore, the pics that fox posted show nearly intact engines....which is inconsistent with your claim that there was little or no debris.



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by CameronFox
Then Tell me Ultima.. What was it? Was it a hologram? Was it a cargo plane painted like an american airliner?

Rescuers were looking for PEOPLE not plane parts...Have you actually done any research? took me all of 3 minutes to find these....upload them and post them.

There are MANY more pictures of the debris.


Please show me the source that said they have identified "bodies".


1. Well thats why i am doing research to find out what it was that hit the Pentagon, if it was flight 77 or something else.

2. So do we have a report of these pieces found matching flight 77, and were were these pieces taken, did they do a reconstruction with them ?

3. www.stripes.com...

By Sandra Jontz, Washington bureau
European edition, Sunday, September 23, 2001

In all, 52 victims have been positively identified. The attack on the Pentagon killed 189 people, 125 of which were working in the building and 64 were aboard American Airlines Flight 77.


NOTE: the date of this report is Septembeer 23 , 2001, the new DNA testing for the WTC and Pentagon was not ready till January 2002.




Originally posted by snafu7700
but as you have mentioned repeatedly, those thin aluminum wings are going to do very little damage....isnt that pretty consistent with the pic you just posted? furthermore, the pics that fox posted show nearly intact engines....which is inconsistent with your claim that there was little or no debris.


Those pics were not of engines. there is only 1 pic i found of an engine outsde the building and i can not id it as a Rolls Royce RB 211.

Also thier is no report i can find that matches the parts found at the Pentagon to flight 77's registration number




[edit on 16-12-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 16-12-2006 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:25 PM
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reference the dna you guys are arguing about, i know from other ntsb investigations that alot of time victims are not identified by their dna, but buy their personal effects known by family members to be on their bodies....just a little something to add to the debate.



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700
reference the dna you guys are arguing about, i know from other ntsb investigations that alot of time victims are not identified by their dna, but buy their personal effects known by family members to be on their bodies....just a little something to add to the debate.


Here is a quote from Arlington Cemetary that is dated Novemeber 2001, that says that remains inside the plane and the building were identified by mostly using DNA.

New DNA testing was not reeady until January 2002.

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers, but they say it is impossible to match what is left with the five missing people.

"They exhausted all scientific leads," said Army Major James Cassella, a Pentagon spokesman. "When all was said and done, they weren't able to identify all of them."

A team of more than 100 workers at a military morgue at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware used several methods to identify remains but primarily relied on DNA testing and dental records. They formally ended their effort Friday after concluding that some remains were too badly burned to identify.



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Those pics were not of engines. there is only 1 pic i found of an engine outsde the building and i can not id it as a Rolls Royce RB 211.


now hold on just a second.....are you seriously trying to tell me that those pics were not of jet engine fans with their blades sheered off? and the top one clearly shows the remains of an engine cowling next to it.

edit: correction, the middle pic shows a cowling.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by snafu7700]



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Those pics were not of engines. there is only 1 pic i found of an engine outsde the building and i can not id it as a Rolls Royce RB 211.


now hold on just a second.....are you seriously trying to tell me that those pics were not of jet engine fans with their blades sheered off? and the top one clearly shows the remains of an engine cowling next to it.

edit: correction, the middle pic shows a cowling.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by snafu7700]


Those pics are not of an Engine, some argue its the APU (auxillary power unit). The intake cowling of a RB 211 turbofan is about 9 feet tall.

en.wikipedia.org...:RR_RB_211.jpg
en.wikipedia.org...:RB211_BLX.jpg

Here is the pics of the 1 engine (whats leaft of it) found outside the building.

i22.photobucket.com...
i22.photobucket.com...








[edit on 16-12-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 16-12-2006 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 03:00 PM
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alright, i'm going to have to go and locate pics of 757 engines with cowlings on and off, because i am damn near positive that, minus the fan blades (you can clearly see the stubs), that is the internal fan portion of a jet engine. if i'm wrong, i'll be more than happy to admit it.



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700
alright, i'm going to have to go and locate pics of 757 engines with cowlings on and off, because i am damn near positive that, minus the fan blades (you can clearly see the stubs), that is the internal fan portion of a jet engine. if i'm wrong, i'll be more than happy to admit it.


en.wikipedia.org...:RR_RB_211.jpg

en.wikipedia.org...:RB211_BLX.jpg

www.rolls-royce.com...

www.thewebfairy.com...



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 03:07 PM
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well, that certainly didnt take long. check this out, as it actually compares intact engines with the exact photos already posted here:

source

browse about halfway down the page until you come to "Comparison of intermediate pressure compressor stages on the RB211 to the wreckage."


that was the first choice on a google pictures search of "boeing 757 engines."



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