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Originally posted by st3ve_o
yeah but your saying the UK signed and agreed to something that was clearly written on some paper and we agreed to this 'something' that we now shouldn't be entitled to it as it wasn't in the original agreement - i'm asking you to provide me with what you've seen.
it must say something in the lines of "thou shall not have FULL operational sovereignty over the aircraft" then signed by a british offical, until then don't make out britain agreed to something that we never
as for joint strike fighter ^american, american, american^, read this:-
en.wikipedia.org...
and i think another member *above* as already provided source's that proves the JSF not 'soley' an aircraft developed by the good ol US of A.
[edit on 12-12-2006 by st3ve_o]
Originally posted by iqonx
As somebody who is British.
I have to agree with the American posters.
They do not owe us anything and they definently don;t have to give us any source codes.
First of all they are funding the whole project we are only paying something like $2 billion out of something close to $40 billion which is less then 5% of the costs. For that price you can't even buy crap nowadays.
We payed $2 billion and we are getting access to the aircraft for $35 million per aircraft.
Thats a pretty good deal considering we are there dogs since 1945 good thing the American's decided to throw scaps of the table at us.
We in Britain seem to be delusional about our importance on the world stage. British people need to realise we are seen as a joke and nobody takes us seriously not even America.
We have no special relationship between American and Britian. Why would they have one with us? There economy is 100x bigger then our's, there armed forces are 10x bigger then ours. We are not needed by them.
This is our own fault for destorying our own 1st class aircraft industry and then begging other countries for scraps from there aircraft industries. Why should America give us anything?
People in Britain seem to think the relationship between britain and America is like a Husband and wife where everthing is 50/50. This couldn't be further from the truth the relationship is more like that between a Pimp and a prostitute. We are the prostitute.
I'm surprised America didn't give us the middle finger and tell us to "F*ck off" when we asked them for the source codes.
If Britain want's control of it's own aircrafts then we should build there own rather then begging other countries who are bigger and more powerfull then us.
Personally if i was in control of our armed forces spending i would go to the Russians and buy naval Su-27(Insert navy version model here) jets and use those.
I think that Britain should cut it's connections to America and build connections with Russia atleast that way we get cool Russian kit like Mig-29's, Mig-31 and Su-27/30/etc .
And you know what the real funny thing is we British refure to sell our military equipment to the chinese as not to offend the Americans. what a joke Britain has become.
Originally posted by Sepiroth
You don't sound very proud to be British that's for sure!
To be honest i don't think people are talking about the funding of the project, everybody knows the United States are funding the majority of the money into the Joint Strike Fighter Project, but i think all this worry (ie) technology passing on from the American side is stealth technology, from a
British point of view we want to be FULLY in control of something we are paying for and for something that we have contributed to developing and adding our own little secret too (the unique V/STOL), see we limeys are proud and stubborn we wouldn't want to operate anything that is 100% developed by another nation, this is why F35(b) is our choice because we've added our own little ingredients to it, something that is British.
Interesting thread though, but let's keep it civil
[edit on 12-12-2006 by Sepiroth]
Originally posted by ape
your country contributed less than 5%
Originally posted by st3ve_o
1) arrogant- 'we are right, you are wrong'
2) ignorant - the rest of the world doesn't exist to a huge part of americans, it seems most live on ^PLANET AMERICA^ most of the time.
Originally posted by ape
if you dont like it your country should develope their own technology and stop bellybitchin, of course that would require almost 2 decades worth of research something your country is trying to avoid apparantly.
Originally posted by st3ve_o
www.baesystems.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.defenseindustrydaily.com...
www.flightglobal.com...
Originally posted by WestPoint23
And I'd like to further point out that I am appalled and embarrassed that some Americans view the UK with such hate and vitriol. This is a specific disagreement and I know that I have a strong position on it but I do not hate or deny the general special relationship the US has with the UK. In general I am grateful for it, it would be foolish to think we as Americas do not benefit from it or that it is not important, in the coming decades it will arguably be as important as it was in WWII and during the Cold War.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Oh lord (funny), here we go again, been there done that. Next. Lets not drag this already degrading "discussion" into a dumb military pissing match while under the high effects of nationalism. Trust me it's not good for ya, found out the hard way, several times, and I still do on occasions.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Steve O
Oh lord (funny), here we go again, been there done that. Next. Lets not drag this already degrading "discussion" into a dumb military pissing match while under the high effects of nationalism. Trust me it's not good for ya, found out the hard way, several times, and I still do on occasions.
Ape, don't worry about it, we all do it, show contempt and ungratefulness for one another, however overall both our respective populations don't want it to go away. I suspect most of the rational British members on heredo appreciate the US and our relationship with the UK, even if they're too stubborn to admit it.
[edit on 12-12-2006 by WestPoint23]
originally posted by st3ve_o
actaully 10% of the costs monkeyboy
Originally posted by devilwasp
Originally posted by Daedalus3
Can you elaborate?
We've been fighting "terrorists" for over a century, boer war?
And here is a list of how much and which British companies are and will gain from the F-35. Look at their goals and plan, that is why we are rightly worried.
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Unless someone has new figures to post the total JSF/F-35 R/D cost up to December 2005 was 45.7 Billion according to the GAO. The UK supplied 200 Million USD in the 1997-2001 development stage and a further 2 Billion in the subsequent stages after the X-35 was selected. Unless mathematics has changed that equals about 4.8% of the cost, and no I don't care what Wikipedia says, I ought to edit it right now...
GAO Report, March 2006 - PDF
This is a good overview of the entire F-35 program and situation, I recommend everyone read it.
CRS Report to Congress - PDF
One more thing I feel I need to mention again, Lockheed Martin is the main program developer, it's their airframe, their design and production, but like all projects it has subcontractors. Numbering in the dozens I might add, from big name companies to obscure ones. Without Lockheed there would be no F-35, their research and design, programs and testing are what makes the fighter. Think of it this way, Lockheed built the house others provide the furniture.
This website lists major F-35 subcontractors and what they developed for the fighter.
Link
And here is a list of how much and which British companies are and will gain from the F-35. Look at their goals and plan, that is why we are rightly worried.
Link
Preserve UK as a leading military, aerospace and industrial power.
Retain benefits of early commitment to JSF through programme life.