Smoking gun evidence that Iran is indeed training and supplying arms to militias in Iraq.

abcnews.go.com...

U.S. officials say they have found smoking-gun evidence of Iranian support for terrorists in Iraq: brand-new weapons fresh from Iranian factories. According to a senior defense official, coalition forces have recently seized Iranian-made weapons and munitions that bear manufacturing dates in 2006.

This suggests, say the sources, that the material is going directly from Iranian factories to Shia militias, rather than taking a roundabout path through the black market. "There is no way this could be done without (Iranian) government approval," says a senior official.

Iranian-made munitions found in Iraq include advanced IEDs designed to pierce armor and anti-tank weapons. U.S. intelligence believes the weapons have been supplied to Iraq's growing Shia militias from Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, which is also believed to be training Iraqi militia fighters in Iran.


Evidence is mounting, too, that the most powerful militia in Iraq, Moktada al-Sadr's Mahdi army, is receiving training support from the Iranian-backed terrorists of Hezbollah.

Doesn't surprise me one bit. Nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran wants to influence Iraq which is the center of the Middle East. The Iranians want to make sure they can put up with militias and possibly a govt. which Iran could have influence on. It may be a civil war indeed.

A knit I feel the need to pick:

Originally posted by deltaboy
abcnews.go.com...

Iranian-made munitions found in Iraq include advanced IEDs designed to pierce armor and anti-tank weapons.

Advanced IEDs?
Umm... IED: Improvised Explosive Device.

Shouldn't a manufactured explosive designed to destory a tank be called a "mine" or an "anti-armour explosive"? Why would you manufacture an improvised device? Wouldn't that be a manufactured device?

I guess it's just "better" news reporting to use catch phrases and sensationalism than to provide actual information...

Aside from that little knit, I find it kind of hard to call this a "smoking gun". There's several possible ways that Iranian weapons could fall into the hand of insurectionists within a short timeframe. Theft and corrupt arms manufacturers are the first things I'd think about, rather than Irainian governmental collusion.

Yes, Iran would like to get their mits on Iraq, but I somehow doubt they like the idea of a totally destabalised nation right next door.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Advanced IEDs?
Umm... IED: Improvised Explosive Device.

Shouldn't a manufactured explosive designed to destory a tank be called a "mine" or an "anti-armour explosive"? Why would you manufacture an improvised device? Wouldn't that be a manufactured device?

If I was an Iranian intelligence officer and my best method is to provide support to the Shiite militias with the best weapons while still maintaining cover. They most likely giving the militias improved IEDs over the previous IEDs that were used. Still has to look like IEDs to maintain cover that it was Iraqi Shiites who made these instead of using real Iranian mines or other types of explosives that could linked to Iranian involvement.

I guess it's just "better" news reporting to use catch phrases and sensationalism than to provide actual information...

Possibly.

Aside from that little knit, I find it kind of hard to call this a "smoking gun". There's several possible ways that Iranian weapons could fall into the hand of insurectionists within a short timeframe. Theft and corrupt arms manufacturers are the first things I'd think about, rather than Irainian governmental collusion.

Maybe...but then Iraqi militia didn't get training from corrupt arms manufacturers or by theft either.

Yes, Iran would like to get their mits on Iraq, but I somehow doubt they like the idea of a totally destabalised nation right next door.

Not destabilized, its influence.

[edit on 30-11-2006 by deltaboy]

Shouldnt surprise anyone. Thats about like saying that its news that the US supports Israel.

Its a civil war in the sense that its Sunni's vs Shi'ittes while the Kurds just chill and build their economy up in northern Iraq. Sunni's lost power and want it back and the Shia's have more power and its revenge time, kinda whats its going to be now with the dems controlling the house.

A lack of accurate intel is one of the reasons the coalition is in the mess it is in. The US needs to gather some solid intel and launch an air campaign against the insurgents supply lines. Iran's nuclear facility's could be bombed at the same time. The occupation
of Iraq has trigged the need for military action against Iraq's neighbors.

This is disconcerting if its true.

Directly supplying weapons in this manner is an act of war. I get a feeling US forces may be going on alert soon.

Isnt the key word in IED

' IMPROVISED '

specifically manufacturing a device, moulded in a certain way to cause maximum damage to a set target... doesnt require much 'improvisation'

I find it strange that Iran after all these years of support, would start making stuff of the back of an assembly line then shipping it to iraq with
'' MADE IN IRAN '' stamped on it...

Why not just buy 100,000 ak's n ship them over...

Saddam has large stockpiles of mines and shells and all bs lying about in holes in the desert IM SURE..


But regardless...

I have figured there are 3 types of people when it comes to IRan

1. Those that will grab with two hands anything that says they are evil...
2. Those that believe we shouldnt be in IRAQ.. let alone looking at Iran.
3. Those that are so gunho, they simply want to see blood, guts, bullets and dead arab bodies...

I have no doubt Iran is helping factions in Iraq.

Be honest here deltaboy...


If russia invaded and occupied canada..
wouldnt you be supporting the canadaian resistance?.. well thats a no no according to American terminology.
... or would you be helping them directly push back the foreign invader at your doorstep?
Well, again in American terminology your now a terrorist, and deserve to be locked up and tortured.

..... oooh what.. it makes a difference because the american occupiers declare they are doing it for good?
You cant have it both ways!!!


Remember the US Was in the same setting as Iran....

hitler didnt approve us helping the french resistance either..

This is something that I've understood for quite sometime. It's really obvious yet for some reason it shocks the media when they find some new sort of proof. The U.S. troops fighting with the "insurgency" in Iraq is nothing more than a proxy war with Iran. Half of the "insurgents" are probably not even from Iraq to begin with. But then we've known this for quite a while haven't we?

In the bigger picture of things.....

Will this the the excuse JWB has been looking for to start a war with iran?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Isnt the key word in IED

' IMPROVISED '

specifically manufacturing a device, moulded in a certain way to cause maximum damage to a set target... doesnt require much 'improvisation'

I find it strange that Iran after all these years of support, would start making stuff of the back of an assembly line then shipping it to iraq with
'' MADE IN IRAN '' stamped on it...

Agit...theres a reason why Iran wants to give this weapon to the Shiites in Iraq as it is...DENIABILITY. As I say before, to make it look like its homegrown weapon that looks like the Shiites somehow improved on it. Think of Iranian support to the Hezbollah that make them sophisticated and deadly, we don't want that against our own troops do we? Whose side are you on?

If russia invaded and occupied canada..
wouldnt you be supporting the canadaian resistance?.. well thats a no no according to American terminology.
... or would you be helping them directly push back the foreign invader at your doorstep?
Well, again in American terminology your now a terrorist, and deserve to be locked up and tortured.

LOL...we didn't declared the Soviets and the Chinese terrorists when they supported North Vietnam.

..... oooh what.. it makes a difference because the american occupiers declare they are doing it for good?
You cant have it both ways!!!

Remember the US Was in the same setting as Iran....

hitler didnt approve us helping the french resistance either..

Hitler didn't approve the American help of the British before we enter the war either. And based on America's history dealing with other nations that support our enemies that we are fighting, its usually not impressive. We usually do nothing and it could be a big mistake. Fighting an enemy that is being resupplied by somebody else that we can't get to means harder war. Even you should know that.

Looks like more fake news stories in a desperate attempt to keep the official line from completely collapsing. I have seen a remarkable change in the consciousness in human beings in the last year alone, nevermind the last 6 or more years...humans are finally, finally, starting to wake up to the lies of their Elite who desire to keep them stupid, poor, controlled, and destroyed, in many cases like with this war in Iraq.

2 years ago, nobody took the idea of conspiracies, cover-ups, UFOs, or corruption seriously. Now, everybody is talking about it, with very few exceptions.
This is proof positive that mankind is slowly, but surely, awakening from their slumber.

No matter what false evidence the Elite controllers try to provide for their movie, the official story of events, people now know not to trust these lying scumbags, and can see that it is just an act; behind the scenes something very different is going on and I think people are finally starting to realize it.

Im sure the moderators of ATS have definately noticed a dynamic change in the evolution of the minds of the members.

The old ways are crumbling, the new Earth lies ahead in the distance, cloaked in the fog of war and corruption, but nonetheless shines bright for all to see, and gives hope for the adventurers who seek to reach it. It is so close now, the Earth is on the verge of tremendous change. This is evident for anyone who can with eyes to perceive it.

If you do not believe, I ask, what have you done to create the new Earth? What have you done to help your fellow man forge it into reality, and awaken the sleeping people trapped in the matrix of the 3D world...ponder these questions.

Peace.

NAMASTE ADONAI

[edit on 1-12-2006 by LightWorker13]

I hope you're right.

It's been too easy to instill fear and chase out critical thinking over the past 5+ years.

This 'revelation' about Iran helping Shiites is right up there with the startling revelation that the US is helping Israel and that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are both supporting al Qaeda. Gosh.

Common sense would tell you that this report is for the most part true.

We've all been told that if we kill 100 terrorists, 1,000 will come to replace them.

Well, they are coming, but they are not the uneducated, untrained refugees one would expect, given their losses over the past few years. They are trained, and someone is doing the training.

Iraq is falling - your next on the menu - wouldnt you try to bid time by training and places units in iraq? i would.

While I want to believe, that is true and that Iran and Syria are having their hands in the doings in Iraq. . .

Is something that bothers me, after the way our own government uses propaganda to achieve and manipulated the public opinion.

Is various things going on in the middle east right now that not matter how much US is trying to keep Iran looking like the one to blame it makes people wonder what the real issue is at hand.

First, the initiative of the prime minister of Iraq to seek diplomatic avenues with Iran and Syria.

Second the prompt visit to the Middle East by Cheney looking for the support of Saudi, Egypt, Kuwait and Jordan to support and help Iraq. After the prime minister decided to become diplomatic with the axils of evil tagged by the US.

Third, the bombing of one of the major pipes in Iraq the next day that Cheney was in the Middle East.

Four the no so secret memo calling the prime minister of Iraq a failure or something between the lines.

Fifth the blaming of Al-Sadir for the troubles in Iraq insurgency and wanting his arrest, a man that became what he is right now because the bad policies of the US interim government in Iraq and Paul Bremen, he wanted to silence Al-Sadirs newspaper for telling the truth. Against post occupation Iraq.

Six the bringing of Hezbollah as the one now training and supporting radicals and terrorist in Iraq, so now Al-qaida is not longer the one to take all the blame.

Seventh, the now creator of the memo that was no so secret wanting US to take over the government of Iraq and create a coalition one.

Now after all those issues going on in Iraq I most say that something smells like desperation and that the blame has to be relocated to now Included as much as possible to Iran, Syria and Hezbollah and to keep Iraq from becoming friends with Iran.

Why? Because if they become diplomatic friends the oil barons and war profiteers will never see a drop of Iraqi oil.

Now what you people thing about all that?

BTW most of the members of the bipartisan study group are nothing than linked to Carlyle group one way of the other through business deals.

Originally posted by marg6043
While I want to believe, that is true and that Iran and Syria are having their hands in the doings in Iraq. . .

Is something that bothers me, after the way our own government uses propaganda to achieve and manipulated the public opinion.

Is various things going on in the middle east right now that not matter how much US is trying to keep Iran looking like the one to blame it makes people wonder what the real issue is at hand.
:
Now after all those issues going on in Iraq I most say that something smells like desperation and that the blame has to be relocated to now Included as much as possible to Iran, Syria and Hezbollah and to keep Iraq from becoming friends with Iran.

Why? Because if they become diplomatic friends the oil barons and war profiteers will never see a drop of Iraqi oil.

Now what you people thing about all that?

Yes marg, a lot of propaganda is flying around, but many times it is rooted in truth, as it is in this case, imo.

Oil is definitely the biggest prize here. Both sides want it, Iran and the US. That's why we will never completely "pull out" of Iraq. And most people in the US know that, and quietly accept it, because we know that we need it, and if we don't use it, there are plenty of buyers out there that would love to. Like China.

Let me ask you this: if al Maliki were to seriously want to negotiate with Iran, how long do you think he would last as Iraqi PM?

Originally posted by jsobecky
Let me ask you this: if al Maliki were to seriously want to negotiate with Iran, how long do you think he would last as Iraqi PM?

I imagine that his time is short as we speak right now. He may tried to do what Pakistan did with Al-qaida.

Maliki knows that he can not depend on the US alone to hold power, he knows that sectarian violence and civil war is against his government.

But he also knows that many of the sectarian leaders in Iraq do not favor US intervention in that country.

If he is a smart person he may want to unified with the people of his nation, been a tribal society he may find some support in Iran and Syria, but still he may have his days counted and is all about survival for him right now.

[edit on 2-12-2006 by marg6043]

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[edit on 2/12/2006 by Mirthful Me]