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It's Worse Than We Think

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posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 02:57 PM
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This reports on a meeting of a group of scientists who are trying to get across the truly grave nature of global warming. They are attempting to get through to the public despite a very organized campaign of disinformation. If the sense of urgency doesn't increase dramatically the earth will be devastated.
 



abcnews.go.com
Convened by Yale's Project on Climate Change at the Yale School of Forestry and Environment Studies, its purpose was not to debate global warming science but to figure out how to convey its most important findings to the public "with appropriate urgency and sustained for the long haul."

"We will leave our children and grandchildren a ruined world if we don't dramatically change our behavior, and soon," said Gus Speth, dean of the Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies, after the meeting broke up.

They reviewed the tactics of naysayers who persistently "trick" journalists into thinking they have to present "the other side" on basic aspects of climate change, even though virtually all the world's thousands of professional climatologists now agree on them


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


The powers that be are rewriting science to keep the truth from the American public. Although, this in itself is not news, the fact that normally docile scientist are organizing to get the word out, is.

The scientists see "the forces of darkness" aligned against anyone who is trying to get the word out. What a fitting analogy. Big business along with their political lakeys are pulling out all the stops to delay the news until it's too late. Just think the car you own now might be the last one you ever will.

Isn't it time that we face up to the damage the American lifestyle is doing and put all that Yankee ingenuity to work solving this disaster in the making. Make this world safe for our children and future generations.

It can't end this way unless everyone of us let's it.

[edit on 13-11-2006 by polanksi]

[edit on 13-11-2006 by UM_Gazz]




posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 08:56 PM
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There is something which some people still don't seem to understand. Just because a lot of "environmentalists" agree human activity is the main cause for global warming, does not make it so...

One thousand years ago everyone, including scientists, were sure the Earth was flat, just a few knew and thought differently.

About two hundred years ago or so everyone knew, including scientists, that if you travelled in a locomotive faster than 30 mph, the air would run out of the cabins and you would die.

Now that maybe some people realize that just because a "majority of certain group of people agree on something, does not make it so", lets get to the debate about Global Warming, and why I think human activity is not the main cause of it.

See, if the other planets with an atmosphere in our solar system were not reacting strangely, and showing proof of a warming trend, the possibility that mankind was behind global warming would be pretty much impossible to deny. But there are dramatic changes in the form of warming happening in all planets in our solar system which have an atmosphere.

[edit on 13-11-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 09:05 PM
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You are missing the point.
From what I gather humans are not the cause but we are accelerating the process and that's the problem mate. We need to take more responsibility for our actions.



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 09:11 PM
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The pace is accelerating throughout the "Solar System". The planets, and even the sun, are showing signs of dramatic changes. It is not just happening on Earth; and human activities are surely not causing the dramatic changes we are witnessing in the Solar System.

[edit on 13-11-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
The pace is accelerating throughout the "Solar System". The planets, and even the sun, are showing signs of dramatic changes. It is not just happening on Earth; and human activities are surely not causing the dramatic changes we are witnessing in the Solar System.

[edit on 13-11-2006 by Muaddib]



Do you have something to back up those claims that the whole solar system showing dramatic changes ?



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
There is something which some people still don't seem to understand. Just because a lot of "environmentalists" agree human activity is the main cause for global warming, does not make it so...



Its not just global warming, its environmental systems breaking down at alarming rates. We are poisoning our planet and giving ourselves cancer. You say environmentalist like it was a bad word. Are you not part of the environment? I would say if you cared for the environment you lived in would make you an environmentalist. Just the fresh water we contaminate alone through manufacturing is enough that we cannot keep the pace up much longer.

Just a vehicular accident creates a haz-mat scene. We cannot sustain what we are ding let alone when China fully spreads her wings. You have to have a screw loose to not let that idea scare you. Look what we did; now its Chinas turn. *shudders*

We need drastic changes how could a thinking person not agree to that fact? You going to just concentrate on "global warming" how about the fact we are living like a cancer itself instead of a co-existing life form. This makes the great mother unhappy and when Mother Nature isn’t happy, we wont be happy.



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 10:12 PM
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We do have some sort of solution for global warming. Some scientist said that he could launch trillions of panels with solar-energy gathering capabilites into the atmopshere.

These lenses would be able to stay up there for eternity, and would block 1.8 percent of radiation from the sun. They would have to launch an 800,000 unit stack of these every 5 seconds for 10 years to be completed though.



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 10:49 PM
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We need to change our concept of what its all about. As it goes now, it's about accumulate as much wealth as possible, to be secure against whatever hardship comes your way.

The world is fixated on GROWTH. If the economy doesn't grow xx points per annum all hell is loose, and those in position to grasp will grasp ever more. GREED never gets enough.

The paradox of this philosophy, growth for the sake of growths, is exactly the mechanism of the cancer cell.

Now we know that for a medical fact, and we can treat cancer accordingly by taking the proper alterations of enviroment and adjustments of lifestyle. But we can't change the conditions for growth, though governed by exactly the same mechanisms.

Why??

Even the gluttonous knows their DESIRE eventually some day will kill them.

Why don't they stop and change?

Rather die than give up gluttonous desire. No one gives a heck about balance these days.



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 11:00 PM
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Yes, it is worse than you think.

And instead of the scientists, politicians, environmentalists, and regular folks wasting time trying to place blame, point fingers at the sources, or attempt to deny even it's existence,..

We ought to be addressing and planning HOW we are going to survive in it instead.
It ain't going away couse we start all driving 4 cylinder cars or carpool,
It ain't going away even if we got china to go totally green.

The cycle has started, and now its time to prepare.

Don't you think?



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Do you have something to back up those claims that the whole solar system showing dramatic changes ?


I did cover this topic before in another forum in ATS, providing links, and excerpts to back what I think is happening.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 13-11-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Its not just global warming, its environmental systems breaking down at alarming rates. We are poisoning our planet and giving ourselves cancer. You say environmentalist like it was a bad word. Are you not part of the environment? I would say if you cared for the environment you lived in would make you an environmentalist. Just the fresh water we contaminate alone through manufacturing is enough that we cannot keep the pace up much longer.


This discussion is about global warming... Yes, we do need to be more responsible towards the environment, but there are many environmentalists that are taking it to the extreme, some are even calling for mass extinction of mankind..... Both extremes are bad.

The changes in the Solar System, and Earth's magnetic field which has weakened more than in the past 800,000 years, would make dramatic changes in the environment on Earth, just like it is happening to the environment of every planet with an atmosphere in the Solar System.



Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Just a vehicular accident creates a haz-mat scene. We cannot sustain what we are ding let alone when China fully spreads her wings. You have to have a screw loose to not let that idea scare you. Look what we did; now its Chinas turn. *shudders*


Trying to label people to make them change their minds does not work.... Back in the 40s and 60s and even before that mankind was releasing more greenhouse gases than we are doing now, yet there was a global cooling trend...



Originally posted by LoneGunMan
We need drastic changes how could a thinking person not agree to that fact? You going to just concentrate on "global warming" how about the fact we are living like a cancer itself instead of a co-existing life form. This makes the great mother unhappy and when Mother Nature isn’t happy, we wont be happy.


We need to prepare for the changes, nothing is going to stop it. I am not saying we should spew chemicals and gases like there was no tomorrow, but some of the drastic changes some people are asking, such as the Kyoto protocol, would allow China and India to increase their own emissions while the rest of the world would have to go back to the dark ages.

We need a balance, either one of the extremes is bad. There are a lot of people hungry in the world right now, but without oil and it's derivatives a lot more people would be starving and dying right now.

If there was a way to immediately stop all use of oil and change to a more "environmentally friendly fuel" i would go for it, but such a change has to be slowly, not dramatic. Dramatic changes have more often done more harm than slow changes, and we (the world in general) have been making quite some changes.

[edit on 13-11-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 12:02 AM
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I think this is the El Nino effect, which is working in tandem with Human caused climate change/warming.

We are getting double shafted, the Universe by Elnino, and Earth hastily from extra Warming>Pollution>Overpopulation>(Dangerous) economic growth.

The warming phenomina snowballs, the warmer it gets the more methane etc that gets released from Plankton, marshes etc etc inturn makes it warmer, were literally cooking humanity into extinction, wont happen before we die naturally, but itll happen.

We need some serious Wars, Pandemic, series of catastrophic natural disasters.

Or we need serious moves in Population and Polution/emission control.


Personally my money is on the First idea coming through, but i hope im wrong.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 02:21 AM
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For the sake of information I figured that I would toss this in.

Prior to the First World War all of the nitrogen, for our fertilizer and gunpowders, was extracted from natural sources. Mainly guano. It can be argued that bat s**t saved the allies, in that the Allies monopolized the only major source of guano, which was found on islands off the Pacific coast of South America.

Enter Franz Haber (A German scientist) who successfully developed a way to extract nitrogen from the atmosphere. This was just in time to provide the Axis powers with a nitrogen source for their weapons.

With the development of nitrogen based fertilizers the human race has increased its population to 60% more than what the Earth could sustain using natural fertilizers. Without commercial nitrogen fertilizers 60% of the worlds population would starve to death.

Given the large consumption of nitrogen in war, and in corporate farming, is it not possible that nitrogen depletion of some sort could be causing the other chemicals to increase their damage to the atmosphere?

Remember folks, you heard it here first.

(If I disappear Con-Agra got me.)


[edit on 14-11-2006 by RecDude]



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:03 AM
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Global warming is not what should be argued, It comes down to this one simple fact.

Emmisions from petroleum/fossil fuel products put out a poisonous effect, put your head to a cars exhaust and see how long you can last, fly a helicoptor over a smoke stack of a petrol cracking processing station and see what happens. Forget about global warming the real issue is that we knowingly without arguement are putting out poisonous emmisions from our industrial activities, when we could partake in albeit more expensive but a lot healthier alternatives.

Its that simple petrol emmissions are poisonous, who cares if they warm the earth they do make the air a lot unhealthier to breathe.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:20 AM
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Yeah this is all well and good, but by show of hands, who here thinks they are ever going to get the average American to change their lifestyle based on this information?

Or do you think that most will consider it a great idea, and their neighbors should have to comply with it, but not themselves as they are special?

Kind of the same way that most think that we need more prisons built, in someone else’s neighborhood though, of course.

Then lets not even get into the corporations that are getting rich off that consumer mindset, or the advertising that tells everyone that they need to constantly consume.

There is not going to be any solution to this problem as it would require a retooling an entire society and mindset, which is never going to happen. Greed is human nature and so is self-entitlement and that is never going to change.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:29 AM
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Did any of you know that underground coal fires around the world may be the cause of as much as a Quarter of the greenhouse gasses.
Google underground coal fires.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by factfinder38
Did any of you know that underground coal fires around the world may be the cause of as much as a Quarter of the greenhouse gasses.
Google underground coal fires.


Wow i never had knowledge that so many of the fires where burning around the world, good place to start Put them out and shut coal fired power plants and make oil a relic of the past.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by factfinder38
Did any of you know that underground coal fires around the world may be the cause of as much as a Quarter of the greenhouse gasses.
Google underground coal fires.


Wow, I knew there was a reason I kept coming back to this site and its not for the false wolf crys about terrorism and aliens. But for information like this, I had no idea about such a thing as this then I read that a coal fire in china puts out as much co2 as all the cars and light trucks in USA do and that there are fires burning here in the US as well.

Great example of a situation that is benefiting no one not the energy companies not the local economy no one something that everyone and their mother could stand behind to help eradicate and were crying about people driving hummers and motor boats.

Thank you so much factfinder I owe you one



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 09:21 AM
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I'm still holding out hope for the global cooling that these same scientists warned us about in the 70's.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 10:02 AM
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Fossil material burning underground is more or less a natural phenomena caused by lightning and wildfires. Man accidently might start it in coalmines. Not much you can do but let it burn out.

Don't know how much it adds to the bottom line. It's always been there as for instance peat bog fires.

Another "natural" phenomena that has just about started but very well might tip the bucket is the thawing of the vast Siberian tundra. It's estimated the carbon released as methan will at best give an 10% increase in global warming. Other less optimistic estimates put it at 25%, i.e. instead of say 4 degreees warmer it will get 5 degrees warmer.

No one has incalculated that in any clima model. But within the last few years it has become a fact irreversible by any man made initiative.

Here's a snippet on the hazzard that eventually will lead to the "tipping point"


Western Siberia is heating up faster than anywhere else in the world, having experienced a rise of some 3C in the past 40 years. Scientists are particularly concerned about the permafrost, because as it thaws, it reveals bare ground which warms up more quickly than ice and snow, and so accelerates the rate at which the permafrost thaws.

Siberia's peat bogs have been producing methane since they formed at the end of the last ice age, but most of the gas had been trapped in the permafrost. According to Larry Smith, a hydrologist at the University of California, Los Angeles, the west Siberian peat bog could hold some 70bn tonnes of methane, a quarter of all of the methane stored in the ground around the world.

The permafrost is likely to take many decades at least to thaw, so the methane locked within it will not be released into the atmosphere in one burst, said Stephen Sitch, a climate scientist at the Met Office's Hadley Centre in Exeter.

But calculations by Dr Sitch and his colleagues show that even if methane seeped from the permafrost over the next 100 years, it would add around 700m tonnes of carbon into the atmosphere each year, roughly the same amount that is released annually from the world's wetlands and agriculture.


You COULD stop the fires (maybe), but this you can do nothing about.



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