More evidence soldiers are dumb

British airmen's deaths 'avoidable'

the decision to put an autonomous Patriot battery in the middle of a busy flightpath was "hard to understand".

Yee Gods. Kerry might be an idiot, but he was right.

Well when the majority of people who join the military in the US are jobless, from run down areas and have no education put to gether with the fact that military training in the US isnt exactly extensive what do you expect to happen when that undereducated, under trained person is put in charge of a weapon.

Hrm, I guess something is gona brew with this.

In the article I read that the commanding officer in the battery, that ordered the plane shot down, was a woman.

Originally posted by Edn
the majority of people who join the military in the US are jobless, from run down areas and have no education ....

YOU ARE WRONG

Stats on US Military personnel. Including education levels.
www.dod.mil...

Upon entry 100% of enlisted have a high school diploma or GED. The US civilian population for the same age has an 89% high school diploma or GED holding. The US troops are actually better educated upon entry into the Armed Forces than the general US population. (and many go on to get their college education after enlisting in the military - like I did)

www.dod.mil...

Officers have a much higher college degree rate than civilians of the same age population.

www.dod.mil...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Upon entry 100% of enlisted have a high school diploma or GED. The US civilian population for the same age has an 89% high school diploma or GED holding. The US troops are actually better educated upon entry into the Armed Forces than the general US population. (and many go on to get their college education after enlisting in the military - like I did)

Erm, exactly?

A high school diploma isn't exactly a high education, You can finish with the equivalent of a high school diploma here at the age of 16. Of course they get people who want to be in the military etc. the Problem with the US military is they actively seek out and recruit people from the lower end of society, they don't do that here in the UK in fact ive never had anyone ask my about joining the army, its always been voluntary.

As for the training aspect its already been discussed in another thread.

I would say civilians are more dumb then people in the military.

Look how many people die in car accidents....we call them accidents. But it really is a majority of people crashing cars and trucks, because they are stupid and careless.

We can even start threads calling people dumb. People do make mistakes. Sometimes it cost lives. If you average out the civilians to people in the military, I would say the average mass of civilians are the dumb ones. (including me)

I personally have never met anyone in the Military that was NOT smarter than the topic of this thread.

Everyone I ever met in the Military were all smart enough to be doing something with their lives besides sitting on a computer disrespecting the only people with the GUTS enough to step up and do something in this world.

Actually most people in the Military are to smart to even respond to this, so I'll go now.







Semper

Shouldn't that be "... too smart ..."?

The sad fact is that while the education level of U.S. Soldiers is at average, High School graduate to Junior College, the training and brainwashing that goes on in the military dumbs these people down in the areas of critical thinking and morality. If the Military had been doing it's forsworn job of Protecting and Defending the Constitution of the United States of America we would have had a different, and hopefully far better, POTUS by now.

It is indeed unfortunate that the highest ranks in the military have already sold out to the Military/Industrial coalition and favor war over peace at all times.



*Buy U.S. Debt! Then demand payment!

there are levels of intelligence in the military. if you score a 40 on the ASVAB, youll probably just be a grunt. if you score a 90 (or higher) like i did, you can do anything you want, including but not limited to: nuclear submarine technician, battle network administrator, or linguist.

[edit on 5-11-2006 by prototism]

Originally posted by Edn
Well when the majority of people who join the military in the US are jobless, from run down areas and have no education...

That has to be one of the most laughable, ill-informed and utterly baseless comments I've seen posted to these boards. How, exactly, did you come to this obviously disillusioned determination?

Originally posted by Edn
... put to gether with the fact that military training in the US isnt exactly extensive what do you expect to happen when that undereducated, under trained person is put in charge of a weapon.

*emphasis mine

Please, please Show me something ... Anything ... that could even remotely establish this "fact", as you put it. In the meantime, I'm certainly Not going to hold my breath.

As for the topic of this thread, which would have been more appropriately titled "British airmen's deaths 'avoidable' ", isn't virtually Everything 'avoidable' ... IN HINDSIGHT? sheesh

From the source article:

I can look back and say that I might have maybe waited longer, maybe I could have done differently. I have made the decision I have made and I have to live with that.

I am in no way trying to detract from the loss of these two men, but Anytime you have humans operating human-made equipment which use human-designed electronics, you Will have the occasional error in judgement or in the electronics themselves ... as it appears was the case in this incident.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing that allows for crystal-clear vision in All situations, after the fact. Unfortunately, everyday life and real-time situations rarely afford the same clarity.

Accidents happen, and as humans All we can do is attempt to minimize their recurrence.

Personally I think the whole thing depends on rank. Obviously the lower ones are going to contain a higher proportion of people incapable of getting anywhere else.

However with the rest of the military being full of so many smart people one has to ask: Is this really such a good thing for the economy?
If there were more smart, motivated people kicking around in civilian life there would probably also be small businesses (some of which will grow into bigger ones) better managers, inventors even. The good thing about all this would mean better tax revenue; which in turn could be made to mean better military equipment and technology (which after all is what increasingly counts these days).

Of course its good for the military to have smart people. But equally you don’t too much of the wrong kinds of defence spending absorbing too many of these people.

His Excellency Kerry…
As for Kerry wasn’t he in the military once? Thought so, kind of proves a point.
You know how last election he thought he went to Cambodia in Vietnam? I wonder if they did one of those weird experiment things on him, one which gave him those false memories? Obviously they also did something seriously bad to his head as it still looks messed up. Depressurization cylinder? Or was it some kind of poison?

Well ether way he says some pretty crazy things. I'm just glad he won’t be running in the next election.
He probably was referring to Bush when he made that joke; but the fact he didn’t apologise-set us straight immediately afterwards shows he’s incapable of running his press team let alone the country; and would probably have got us into just as much mess in Iraq. That’s why we need a radical democrat, and hopefully they will come.

As for the Congress election: there’s no point rewarding someone who both fails and also lies to you. And is also as morally corrupted as any perverted interpretation of the Bible.

[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]

To the poster above that said the US military is brainwashed into being not moral or being dumbed down.

Can you provide some facts? Or are you just trying to hate?

Were you ever in the US Military and found this to be a fact? Or are you reading from sources that cause people that read it to be dumbed down and morals to go away. And then to also make you think the US military is brainwashed when you are the one brainwashed with hate? I still have several family members in the military, and they have graduated from college too. Yep our Thanksgiving dinners are a low moral brainwashed affair.

I have been in the military and I wasn't brainwashed or dumbed down. My morals are quite strong. My spelling isn't, but I don't blame the military for that.

This thread was started and worded to cause a stir. The title of the thread is off the mark big time.

[edit on 5-11-2006 by sbob]

And Rank is not always the "ALL TELLING" factor in intelligence. I obtained by BS degree prior to joining the Marines, and went in Enlisted for the simple fact that one can not be an Officer and a Sniper in the Corps.

A lack of experience is showing in this thread for sure.

Life experience and Military...

Semper

Officers have a much higher college degree rate than civilians of the same age population.

The position of Officer is a job;

therefore then above quote is about as valid as saying that 'thermonuclear physicists have a much higher college degree rate than civilians of the same age population.'

And people who what to be cannon fodder are thick.

e.g., giving your life for the war in Iraq is stupid, especially when the people who want the war aren't giving their lives.

However, giving your life for your country when it is actually being attacked is brave.
There is a difference.

i have to AGREE with rizla........

theese soldier people cannot make up their OWN minds, so.........,
they have people
TELL THEM WHAT TO DO,
and GLADLY DO IT!!!!!!!

even if it is WRONG!!!

they would RATHER have someone tell them what to do ???!!!!!????

when to eat,sleep,#,shower,change socks,shave,......and HOW TO DO IT!!!!

are they dumb?????

INCREDIBLY!!!!!

they have NO MIND OF THEIR OWN.....

it is SOMEONE ELSES mind.........like robots.....programmed.......

i dare you to try and PROVE ME WRONG!!!!!!

and just like any corporation/business,
when they are NO LONGER USEFUL,

DUMP ThEM AND REPLACE THEM (they are EXPENDABLE)

but those same (MASTERS) will then complain,
thay they have to use their hard earned money to pay for their recuperation,
and disabilities!!!!!!

i'm gonna go right out and LINE UP and ASK to be TOLD what to do and WHEN.........
YEAH RIGHT

March 22, 2003, is the date of this incident as mentioned in the article…which is not new by any means.

Also...

Friday March 22, 2003:

British CH-46 Sea Knight crashes killing all eight (8) on board…
deemed pilot error.

Saturday March 23, 2003, (same date as your article):
Two (2) British Royal Navy helicopters collide…killing six (6)…


BTW…five (5) US soldiers were killed in the above "crashes"...


…all avoidable operational errors…


Your lame attempt at making some point is...?



mg

Originally posted by CarlosG

Officers have a much higher college degree rate than civilians of the same age population.

The position of Officer is a job;

therefore then above quote is about as valid as saying that 'thermonuclear physicists have a much higher college degree rate than civilians of the same age population.'

You are wrong. The position of "officer" denotes rank it is not a job description. A person can be an officer and their job could be platoon leader or battalion commander or S3 or XO but their job is different from their rank. My B-I-L's rank is Lt Colonel, his job is battalion commander. Their rank would be similar to a corporate vice president or manager or treasurer. In the civilian world your "job" would be "thermonuclear physicist" and your "rank" might be "tenured professor". Get the difference?

Originally posted by rizla
British airmen's deaths 'avoidable'

the decision to put an autonomous Patriot battery in the middle of a busy flightpath was "hard to understand".

Yee Gods. Kerry might be an idiot, but he was right.

I thought Kerry's remarks implied that if you didn't do your homework, you would end up in Iraq as cannon fodder. But, unless there have been some changes that I am missing, Officers do have a degree of higher learning. This mistake was made by an officer. Plus I am sure the decision to place that Patriot battery was not made by enlisted men or women.

From your above source.

The tactical control officer in the battery who gave the order to fire on a Tornado GR4 carrying the two airmen, from 9th Squadron based at RAF Marham in Norfolk, explained the plane showed up on her radar as a missile, not a plane.

I thought this thread started with outlining one of the many cases of what we now laughingly call 'friendly fire'.

There was at one point an almost even split between the number of British troops killed in combat situations and the number killed in non-combat situations - that is, in accidents, and friendly fire incidents.

Nearly all of this friendly fire happpens with a US soldier on the trigger..

I would not say soldiers are stupid any more than i would say people are. I would say that there is a distinct lack of decent training. News link

Originally posted by Documentally

Nearly all of this friendly fire happpens with a US soldier on the trigger..

See the original external quote above: the Officer gave the order to fire.