Children Again Sewing Clothing for Wal-Mart, Hanes and Other U.S. Companies

No one is saying that the US started child labor, but it can hardly be disputed that US companies benefits from it more than those of other nations.

For shame shots

Originally posted by shots
Very lame attempt on your part souljah. :shk: Child labor was used in other countries long before American corporations even started outsourcings or importing clothes from foreign markets.

And that is your Excuse, that Western Corporations can continue to do that, for the sake of their profits?
(saying screw the little 11-year old children in the same breath)

[edit on 30/10/06 by Souljah]

I believe That what shots is saying is that He condemn the use of child labor, but that other countries do it also.

Is just been blown out of proportion.

Sorry shots.

I feel bad for those poor kids! How awful to not be able to enjoy your childhood. But I have a question....if we do not buy their products, do we not put these children at risk also? They won't have any income at all then! Just wondering....

The whole 'outsourced manufacturing' system advocated by the corporate brands is the the problem..

Companies such as Nike, Hilfiger, etc rely solely on contracting-out to production-bases in Free-Trade Zones in third-world countries, who are free of any form of taxation labour-law regulation or unionization. The brand company is solely a contractor in the chain of production so assumes no direct responsibility for labour or wage-setting so can sell its business to the lowest bidder.

The problem is that if the manufacturing workers in these Free Trade Zones make a noise and demand fair wages and conditions in return for their labour, the manufacturing-contractors will simply shut-down shop and move their production to another Free-Trade-Zone in another country. The other scenario is that the regional government, fearful of losing the foreign production plants, and the lucrative brand-contract work they bring with them, will simply clamp down on dissident workers, or 'quietly remove' workforce unionizers.

A real lose-lose situation, as the (usually rural-migrant) workers become confined to their lifestyle as they cannot even afford the basic daily essentials, let alone save anything to pay for a ticket home

I recently re-read Naomi Klein's book 'No Logo'. It follows the corporate trail from brand to sweat-shop and all the social implications...I guarantee it will make you angry!!

This is not the fault of Capitalism. This is the fault of GREEDY EVIL PEOPLE. Greed comes in all sizes and shapes. Greed is part of all religions, all people, all systems of commerce and all forms of government. Trying to blame these horrible events on capitalism is propaganda in its “purest form”.

Originally posted by marg6043
I believe That what shots is saying is that He condemn the use of child labor, but that other countries do it also.

Is just been blown out of proportion.

Sorry shots.

Exactly Marg this is not unique to the US Alone.

I am sure even Slovenia, France Spain , Germany, Britain et el., all purchass the very same items with different labels on them, however some people around here cannot deny their own ignorance of that minor fact which makes them the hypocrites not me.

Just for the record. I always check labels and buy US made only Products whenever I can and you can be darn sure I do not buy shoes made overseas. I buy only Allen-Edmonds made right here in our state, I only buy US made cars, can you or any others say the same?

Originally posted by Souljah

And that is your Excuse, that Western Corporations can continue to do that, for the sake of their profits?
(saying screw the little 11-year old children in the same breath)

I made it very clear I do not condone the practice Souljah, Your ignorance has been denied because unlike you I buy products made in the US whenever they are available even if they do cost me more.

Ahhhhh, Am I missing something here.

Where is the responsibility of the country that these sweat shops are going on?

Why is America to blame for the country that does not care for its children. I think the USA should have laws to not accept garments from countries who abuse there children in work environments....period.

But it is the fault of the country the children are being exploited.

Shouldn't their country be protecting the children.

In the USA we have minimum ages you can start to work. I guess those countries do not care at all.

Don't push the blame, where the majority of the blame should go. The country producing the products damaging its youth.

Another pass the buck problem on the United States is you ask me.



Oh, and here is a link to how Slovenia treats slave labor in prosititution where the original poster is from.
In fact you only get 10 years in jail in Slovenia for "ENSLAVING" another person into prosititution. And even less for pimping.

Slovenia Slavery

Slovenia's reaction to the slave victims is to deport them within 24 hours, and not help them in treatment.

Child labor is bad. Slaves are even worse.

The origninal poster should be ashamed of his country's lack of safety for his population, and should try to get these lax laws changed. This will help in cutting down on the slaves in Slovenia.

Think globally and act locally.

Please do not blame the USA for the child labor situation in the world when your country only gives 10 years in jail for having a slave.

You should try to get the law changed where you are locally and get this problem to go away.

[edit on 30-10-2006 by sbob]

Originally posted by sbob
Ahhhhh, Am I missing something here.

Where is the responsibility of the country that these sweat shops are going on?

Another pass the buck problem on the United States is you ask me.

If only it were so simple...

You see, global ecconomics is a very complex issue. What you've got here is a Have country (the US) setting up shops within Have-Not countries. We're talking about under-developed or developing nations that don't have strong ecconomies of their own. Those countries cannot compeat with the money offered by US corporations. Yes, the wages those companies offer are considered slave wages to westerners, but in those poor countries it's more than the people can get elsewhere.

These corporations look for places where labor laws are lax and the people are poor. Often they justify themselves by pointing out that they are supplying jobs to people who would be otherwise unemployed. That's not a bad thing.

The problem is the inequity of the situation. Those workers get paid something in the range of 2 cents (or lower) per shirt they produce. Those same shirts are then sold for $15 to $30 a pop. Even when you factor in the costs of shipping and distribution, the corporation is still taking in massive profits as opposed to their costs.

Now, let's say that a new international law is passed that states corporations MUST pay wages that are in-line with the profits they make. Suddenly you'd have those same poor people making $1 per shirt. A massive increase in their earnings. The company would still turn a profit (it just wouldn't be as grossly out-of-line with their costs) and they'd be helping to improve the standard of living for the people that work for them.

The reality is that we live in a greed-based sociaty. Making a profit simply isn't enough. The goal is always to make more profits. Helping people is meaningless. Humanitarianism isn't good for the bottom line.

What's needed is a MASSIVE shift in our sociaty and culture. We need to stop being so damned greedy. We need to accept that our expected standard of living is too damned high.

Most of all, we need to rein in the corporations.
They are out of control and currently have more power than any government... including that of the US.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
You see, global ecconomics is a very complex issue. What you've got here is a Have country (the US) setting up shops within Have-Not countries. We're talking about under-developed or developing nations that don't have strong ecconomies of their own. Those countries cannot compeat with the money offered by US corporations. Yes, the wages those companies offer are considered slave wages to westerners, but in those poor countries it's more than the people can get elsewhere.

Yeah. While the wages sound terrible to us, what do you want the factories to pay? If their pay is so terrible and jobs are everywhere, why don't these "slaves" work elsewhere?

Because the pay is the same as anything else around there. If it wasn't for that corporation (whichever), what job would the kids have? If you look at it that way, you realize that companies aren't all bad (they supply jobs).

Originally posted by BitRaiser
These corporations look for places where labor laws are lax and the people are poor. Often they justify themselves by pointing out that they are supplying jobs to people who would be otherwise unemployed. That's not a bad thing.

There we go. And labor laws aren't passed in those contries, maybe, because no local company could afford it there. People in rich countries love whining about how poor other people are, but the truth is it's just that our quality of life here is huge. Go back a couple hundred years and it'd be unimaginable.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
The problem is the inequity of the situation. Those workers get paid something in the range of 2 cents (or lower) per shirt they produce. Those same shirts are then sold for $15 to $30 a pop. Even when you factor in the costs of shipping and distribution, the corporation is still taking in massive profits as opposed to their costs.

Yeah, but they have to pay for materials, too. And factory workers make up what percentage of the employment pie of that company? They have to pay for everything else. But yeah, they're taking in nice profits, but you can't go paying a factory worker what's like getting 100k per hour or something here. (Remember, foreign currency is worth MUCH LESS, so dollar/cent equivalents of wages are misleading)

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Now, let's say that a new international law is passed that states corporations MUST pay wages that are in-line with the profits they make. Suddenly you'd have those same poor people making $1 per shirt. A massive increase in their earnings. The company would still turn a profit (it just wouldn't be as grossly out-of-line with their costs) and they'd be helping to improve the standard of living for the people that work for them.

First I have to attack that. What are you, a communist? Globalist?

That would be crippling to nearly any company and destroy international trade. How can you make one international minimum wage to profit ratio when the company makes money and gets materials from so many sources (think Microsoft - there's not one factory, or even KIND of factory (office) that makes things for them)? Do janitors get a slice of this profit pie too? This would just make a couple people working in the factory becoming what's like being a milionare. It makes no SENSE to pay someone that.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
The reality is that we live in a greed-based sociaty. Making a profit simply isn't enough. The goal is always to make more profits. Helping people is meaningless. Humanitarianism isn't good for the bottom line.

Well, yes, in a way... But that's what it is to be human. Don't say that no one helps anyone, there are always donations by companies and people who want to help. There are the executives who don't give a #, but you'll always have men who are nothing but greedy.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
What's needed is a MASSIVE shift in our sociaty and culture. We need to stop being so damned greedy. We need to accept that our expected standard of living is too damned high.

Most of all, we need to rein in the corporations.
They are out of control and currently have more power than any government... including that of the US.

Well, not really. I think we're pretty fine right now. In the US, even the poor is relatively rich, so that's fine. The international companies pay wages and hours in line with other wages and hours in the area.

The problem is NOT the greed of these companies, the ruthlessness of businessmen, or a failure of those foreign governments. The country simply isn't developed! What do you expect, a country that's behind all the "rich" Western countries to have a lot of riches and wealth? Of course not, they're simply living in another era. Any change you make to fix it is only hiding the problem (and possibly make it worse). They just need to build up, and for that they need time and initiative. But it will get done, as long as they work. Just don't blame the companies that give them jobs for their poverty - the wages are a result of their lack of wealth, not their lack of wealth a result of their wages.

Originally posted by Souljah
So does Casto have 700 factories of Slaves around the world?

Does Castro have a commercial on each and every sports event?

I think not...

How we got to comparing companies to societies is strange anyhow. But if want abstract #'s ...

Cuba has a GDP of 39.1 billion

Nike has revenues (not profit) of 13.7 billion

So Cuba doesn't advertise all over the place. But since when is it okay for anyone to use forced slave labor?? What I got from your post was it is okay for Cuba and other countries to do it because they really have no choice. But for corporations to do it is pure evil. If that's not what you meant I apologize but that was how I took it.

It is wrong for any person to forcibly employ someone. The real issue is whether these corporations (ie Walmart and the like) are aware of the labor practices of the companies and countries they are buying from.

Certainly there have been enough sweatshop horror stories from the past over clothing/shoes. The companies that are selling this merchandise have a responsibility to take some basic steps to ensure the workers at the factories have at least a basic standard of living. If not from a legal standpoint, but as it has been proven with Nike, from a customer standpoint. To what extent does the corporation have to be responsible for the companies and countries it buys from. Certainly if they are aware the practice is occuring then the should discontinue using the supplier. Certainly they should require the companies they buy massive amounts from to argee to certain standards of employment ... maybe they should conduct occassional tours of these facilities. But we should remember it is not the Walmart/Target/fill in the blank store that is actually running the factory. Why is the US corporation the evil one and not the company running the factory?

Most, if not all, Americans do not want to buy products made by slave labor. Most of us don't have the time to thoroughly investigate each shirt we buy. I don't want to pay $100 for a pair of shoes that some 8yr old made for a penny or two. But at the same time even though I look at the label and it says "Made in USA" does that mean the whole thing or just part of it?? I would love to know that by buying a shirt made in Bangladesh or Malaysia (sp) I am not only saving money but also helping create a better standard of living somewhere.

Honestly I don't know exactly how to solve this situation, who do you purchase your clothing from to know they are not made in sweatshops? Everything is being made overseas and without some sort of guidance on what companies are buying from them, then you may unknowingly be supporting sweatshops by making those purchases, after all, it's all about supply and demand.

So is there an international group who publishes a list of buyers so that we can stop buying from the ones who purchase from sweatshops. If there isn't there needs to be, my few dollars I spend at Walmart is not going to stop or affect them much if I decide to stop buying my clothing from there, but if enough people become aware of this situation & cares enough to stop buying from all the sweatshop supporters, then it will stop.

Money talks loudly and it is really only when enough people care enough to stop supporting the sweatshop owners by not buying the products purchased by consumers worldwide, will the practice stop. I will no longer buy from these companies, anyone have a list?

Also,

www.cnn.com...


Moved by the sworn testimony of U.S. officials and human-rights advocates that the 91 percent of the workforce who were immigrants -- from China, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh -- were being paid barely half the U.S. minimum hourly wage and were forced to live behind barbed wire in squalid shacks minus plumbing, work 12 hours a day, often seven days a week, without any of the legal protections U.S. workers are guaranteed, Murkowski wrote a bill to extend the protection of U.S. labor and minimum-wage laws to the workers in the U.S. territory of the Northern Marianas.

So compelling was the case for change the Alaska Republican marshaled that in early 2000, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed the Murkowski worker reform bill.

But one man primarily stopped the U.S. House from even considering that worker-reform bill: then-House Republican Whip Tom DeLay.

Later, DeLay would tell The Washington Post's Juliet Eilperin that the low-wage, anti-union conditions of the Marianas constituted "a perfect petri dish of capitalism. It's like my Galapagos Island."

Difficult issue to address. On one hand, we have children and others working for next to nothing and they're basically slaves. On the other, if you set a fair minimum wage, they're just going to take their business elsewhere and they will be out of jobs completely. If minimum wage is set internationally, they will just bring the business back home where shipping costs are eliminated and employees are more educated. Only solution is to get the people of their respective countries to start their own businesses with the help from the 1st world community. I'm not an economist but I think thats basically how it is.

[edit on 10/30/06 by pugachev]

Like honestly I would rather just live on thr street. It would be alot simpler. You see someone wit money, and you rob them. You see an animal with a moderate amount of meat, you kill it coo it and eat it. All the stuff they need to survive exists around them nautrally, I see no reason to work for 3 cents an hour. It would actually be easier to just live in the wild.

If you guys are so concerned about the poor little children, why dont you stop complaining and sack up and take a loan out from a bank and open your own clothing line. Try to make your own "Made in the USA" clothing and when it doesnt sell because it costs you too much to make in this country, then you'll realize that companies who sell clothes are essentially forced to go oversees because if they didnt, shirts would be 200 bucks and nobody would buy that. Start looking into the "WHY" and stop listening to all the lies.

So stop complaining and whining and crying about how bad these companies are and do something about it. Its too late for talk, if you're not ready to act, then give me a break and shut up.

Pain

Wikipedia

Throughout the world, action by the labour movement has led to reforms and workers' rights, such as the 2-day weekend, minimum wage, paid holidays, and the achievement of the eight-hour day for many workers. There have been many important labour activists in modern history who have caused changes that were revolutionary at the time and are now regarded as basic. For example, Mary Harris Jones, better known as Mother Jones, was central in the campaign to end child labour in the United States during the early 20th century. An active and free labour movement is considered by many to be an important element in maintaining democracy and for economic development.

Does anyone know how keen capitalists are on seeing a flourishing global labour movement?

I guess kids work because their families need them to. How do you take away that need? Is there enough money to go around? Can the system work like that?

Originally posted by BigTrain
Try to make your own "Made in the USA" clothing and when it doesnt sell because it costs you too much to make in this country, then you'll realize that companies who sell clothes are essentially forced to go oversees because if they didnt, shirts would be 200 bucks and nobody would buy that.

200 bucks you have to be kidding :shk: I can buy very good flannel shirt for 22.95 that are made in the USA I am wearing one right now.

Source

Slightly higher then Walmart full price but still reasonable when you think about it knowing it puts Americans to work.

The problem with society now a days is they do not want to take the time and look around for products made in the USA. They are out there and not all that expensive.

I tell you what, if the country decides to move jobs out of the US, stop buying the product completely. If they are found to have any shops outside the US, just stop buying their products. You control them, nobody else. The consumer decides what to buy, and that decides the fate of the company.

Those who wish to keep all jobs and manufacturing in this country alone are being selfish to the human society of Earth. Cases like these are unacceptable, and upon their discovery are handled accordingly within each corporations' respective policies, as well as international law. However, this single case does not represent the majority of all internaional corporate entities, or their specific adherance to ethics in economoics. Fact is, the majority of these businesses make it an important effort to avoid and prevent such abuses, and believing otherwise is highly arrogant, self-righteous, and perhaps even naivee. Lest anyone have proper statistics, reports, or documents to cite as sources povoing without a doubt this case was intentional, or practiced widely across the globe, this was an isolated case with dire consequences.

If anyone truly desires to assist these children, it is up to each to contact the appropriate international justice organisation, such as INTERPOL, the FBI or a particular United Nations entity to bring the criminals and violators of international law to justice.

Our own country would be at a much more stagnant rate of development, not to mention people across the world having the opportunities they now have. Communications across the vast expanse of underdevloped Aficia are gradually being made universal and instant. Poor farming people of formerly backward societies in Asian nations are now enjoying the benefits of a modern world. Basic sanitary, educational, and medical advances are developing in the most densely populated regions of the globe where once there were none. And despite the narrow and paranoid beliefs of a few individuals in small isolated pockets of the developed world that fear a change in their current lifestyles, way of living, and desired propoganda, the world is progressing into a new age at a faster rate than previously recorded in known human history.

It would be in everyones best interest to simply grab the benefits of such changes, maintain their ethics and integrity, and assist those less fortunate or educated to ease the transition into a new age of human history. Becoming more involved at your local government level can hasten the benefits and ease the hardships of those of which you share your township with.