Comptroller of the United States Warns of Pending Economic Disaster

Thought I'd just jump in here and insert a different "choice".

While I'm at it, I want to thank all of you for the comments, and turning this topic article into a hot discussion.

To begin, I am a Disabled War Vet, and draw pension from the VA--which is about the same as SS with about the same rules and the same COLA increases as SS. Disability Benefits are NOT a Gov't "giveaway, as one has to qualify for them under very strict rules. The "other side" of this is neither is Social Security. The buzz is that, either way, we all earned it. In my case, I never expected or desired to "retire" at the age of 54, and you can bet that having to change your entire life 180 is not easy.

Back during his campaign, I remember Ross Perot saying in a interview on NBC, that if one opened the "virtual vault" that contained SS funds, you would find nothing but an I.O.U. Ross P was advocating Privatization way back then. So do I, but not in the way that has been stated previously in this discussion.

There are far more than a couple of Choices on how this may be done. Another one of them is the formation of an NGO non-profit corp with the powers of strict Oversight on SS, and possibly VA, funds--based in either the Perot Plan or some other sound practice. I feel that such an NGO could be structured such that each "investor" --yourselves--- is also a co-owner and has a Vote in what goes on with the corp and the funds, how they are invested at a profit for all concerned, etc. Such as this would completely remove Government manipulation of that funding and make the system solvent.

Just another Idea--what do you think?

Originally posted by Ed Littlefox


There are far more than a couple of Choices on how this may be done. Another one of them is the formation of an NGO non-profit corp with the powers of strict Oversight on SS, and possibly VA, funds--based in either the Perot Plan or some other sound practice. I feel that such an NGO could be structured such that each "investor" --yourselves--- is also a co-owner and has a Vote in what goes on with the corp and the funds, how they are invested at a profit for all concerned, etc. Such as this would completely remove Government manipulation of that funding and make the system solvent.

Just another Idea--what do you think?

I also remember Ross from the good old days, he did made a lot of sence.

I will be for private investment accounts for anybody after the age of 18, and you really have a good point and a good idea for how things should work.

My husband is a retired Marine and he does receive his monthly check but still holds a full time job with the government.

The problem is that the idea of Perot was taken and turned not into something to benefit the people but to also reap huge profits and benefit the banking system that was to made the bids for a program like that.

As you know our present system wants all or nothing, meaning that people will have not choice as to who will manage their accounts but also in what it will chose invest.

Profits will, occurs be for the benefits of the people managing such accounts.

Originally posted by Mdv2


I am aware of your opinion and you are of mine, but can you give one example of a prominent person in history that expected the US economy to collapse, for instance an ex-Comptroller General?

Hello Mdv2 again.

I personally am not 100% positive that the worlds economies will not come toppling down. All I do know is there are a lot of stories...like usualy, on globalresearch for an example, the person claims the US will set up a new currency backed up by all the gold in the Federal Reserve and that will become the New World Order currency yet there are others who said there is no gold. Then there are others who say that the money gets burnt as to not cause inflation, while others say we are sitting ducks. The truth is I don't know.

Right now I do not like how the US economy is. The whole world's economies are way too dependent on each other (I don't know if that is good or bad?) The truth is, we have never been at such a time in history before, not the Romans nor anyone else. So it will be interesting to say the least.

But define how this will affect Americans...is it...we cannot afford our new plasma TV's or we will be living on the streets eating card board? Nobody has truly defined what this "crash" would entail. Nor how it would affect the rest of the world.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]

posted by Ed Littlefox

To begin, I am a Disabled War Vet . . Disability Benefits are NOT a Gov't giveaway . . one has to qualify under strict rules. The "other side" of this is neither is Social Security. The buzz is that, either way, we all earned it. In my case, I never expected or desired to "retire" at the age of 54, and you can bet that having to change your entire life 180 is not easy.

Ross Perot in a interview on NBC . . SS funds [are] nothing but an I.O.U. Ross was advocating Privatization. So do I, but not in the way that has been stated previously in this discussion. Just another Idea--what do you think? [Edited by Don W]

There are an infinite number of ways to separate a fool from his money. Ken Lay outlived the jailer bur now faces the Grim Reaper. Jeff Skilling will have time to reflect. World.com, Tyco, American Red Cross, etc and etc. Us ordinary mortals are not up to the cleverness and shenanigans of the crooks who abound in our society. When allied with officialdom, we are helpless. Let’s not take a sure thing and put it on the “if come” line. Society has a real interest in Social Security. We don’t want a bunch of risk-takers wandering around, homeless and hungry. Let’s have a floor. A plan below which you cannot go, even if you want to take the risk, because you are not alone in this scheme. I don’t want to look at you, pan-handling, and I don’t want to see you lying in the street, covered with sores, because you took a flyer with your Medicare funds.

Let’s leave well enough alone. When you find me one man who can tell me what tomorrow will bring, then I will say let’s go for broke. You know, I know, we all know, that is not possible, not now, not yesterday, not tomorrow. Until them, leave the scam artists to prey on others


[edit on 10/29/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
US will set up a new currency backed up by all the gold in the Federal Reserve and that will become the New World Order currency

the new world order currency is already here, 'the euro' thats what is damaging the $dollar in the first place.

posted by marg6043

posted by Ed Littlefox

“ . . form a NGO with powers of Oversight on SS and VA funds based on some sound practice . . such NGO be structured so each "investor" is a co-owner and has a Vote in what goes with the funds, how they are invested at a profit for all concerned, etc. Such as this would completely remove Government manipulation of that funding and make the system solvent.

I will be for private investment accounts . . The problem is that the idea of Perot was turned not into something to benefit the people but to also reap huge profits and benefit the banking system that was to make the bids for a program like that . . our present system wants all or nothing, meaning that people will have no choice as to who will manage their accounts but also in what it will chose invest. Profits will accrue for the benefit of the people managing [do you mean “owning?”] such accounts. [Edited by Don W]

1) Social Security is as good as the United States of America. As long as there is a US of A, there will be social security payments on time and in the agreed amount. Only people who doubt the permanence of the US of A doubt the social security promise will be kept. I’m not one. If the US of A fails, SS won't matter.

2) The whole hullabaloo over whether SS is solvent or not is hokum. It was based on the annual report and 50 year projection the law requires for the SS administrators to produce. We can’t predict the weather in 6 hours how can we predict anything 50 years out? It was always ignored, and it serves some esoteric mathematical formulations, but leaders knew what it was and no one ever thought of using it to stampede the public into doing something really dumb. Like giving your future to stock brokers. The greedy bankers, Wall Street hustlers and GOP haters of SS since 1935, took advantage of this report and here we are today, blithely talking about taking a sure thing and handing it over to guys who got you and me into Iraq and threatens to get us into Iran. WOW!



[edit on 10/29/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
I disagree Subz, that your conclusion follows on your premise. I think this is a case of the “missing middle.” I also believe your reference to “big government” is misplaced. I usually think of the Fed as being part and parcel of the movement that resulted in the 16th Amendment and the essential changes in our nation’s financial policy.

Well quite frankly I was very specific in the scope of my comment. I was refering to the fact that it was the Republicans pushing for an added layer of government bureaucracy and increased financial burden on the working American in the form of interest due. In contrast it was the Democratic Party that was arguing against such a bill. Ironic in that the Republicans are meant to stand for small government and reduced spending. As such I stand firmly behind the contention of my post

Originally posted by donwhite

Profits will accrue for the benefit of the people managing [do you mean “owning?”] such accounts. [Edited by Don W]

Exactly.

The greedy bankers, Wall Street hustlers and GOP haters of SS since 1935, took advantage of this report and here we are today, blithely talking about taking a sure thing and handing it over to guys who got you and me into Iraq and threatens to get us into Iran. WOW!

[edit on 10/29/2006 by donwhite]

Tell me about it, and then the master mind of the SS reform is somebody that not only is managing our nation into economic oblivion but also could not even manage his own checkbook and personal business affairs.

Yes he is the perfect person to trust with selecting the banking systems to own your SS accounts.

Tell me about it, and then the master mind of the SS reform is somebody that not only is managing our nation into economic oblivion but also could not even manage his own checkbook and personal business affairs.

This is exacly why any form of privatization needs to be something that is investor-run and in the form of a co-op--on the order of, say, REA. In such a case, you hire your own people and get the Govt out of the picture. Otherwise, and the risk is having a Govt agency run with all of the effectiveness of FEMA

posted by Sepiroth

posted by RetinoidReceptor
US will set up a new currency backed up by all the gold in the Federal Reserve and that will become the New World Order currency

The New World Order currency is already here, 'the euro' that’s what is damaging the US$dollar in the first place. [Edited by Don W]

Gold? As currency? Not really. Beautiful. Nearly indestructible. King Tut’s head mask was brilliant after lying in the ground 3,500 years! Gold artifacts found off Florida’s coast looks as if it came out of a jewelry store even though it was under water since the 1500s.

We’ve been there and done that. In 1896, William Jennings Bryan was the nominee of the Democratic Party running against William McKinley. One of the main issues was “cheap” money. The Dems wanted “cheap” money. They wanted to change the law that set the ratio of gold coins to silver coins at 8 to 1. 8 silver dollars for each gold dollar. The Dems battle cry was 16 to 1!

The Republicans - the rich bankers - wanted less money in circulation, which drives up the price of money. Which is to say, high interest rates. From Bryan’s speech: “If they dare to defend the gold standard as a good thing, we shall fight them to the uttermost, having behind us the producing masses of the nation and the world. Having behind us the laboring interests and all the toiling masses, we shall answer their demands for a gold standard by saying to them . .

. . you shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns. You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold.”

In the world there is currently somewhere between 120,000 and 140,000 tons of gold ‘above ground.’ That's all that has ever been produced. Worth about $1.8 trillion at $390 per ounce. The average production cost - in South Africa - is about $238 per troy ounce. The US Gold Reserve is just over 8,000 tons - 192 million ounces - which is about 6% of the total gold ever mined. It is worth about $100 billion . . [All numbers are from 1997 via Google] Gold closed at $599 on 10/27/2006. Multiply $ amounts given here by 1.54 for current values. www.galmarley.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

That is not enough money to run the world’s economies. It is not easy to use gold. It must be assayed lest you get gold plated lead. Paper money OTOh, is perfect for commerce. Fiat money. Money based on faith. And on good fiscal management of the nations printing it. The US dollars in print total about $400 billion. $240 billion is used in America, $160 billion is used outside the US. That is as close to a world currency as you will ever get. The US dollar is “backed’ by a $12 T. economy. The US is stable. That is why the US dollar is accepted around the world. And many transactions are made in dollars even if the buyer and seller use other currencies. I don’t know what currency is No. 2, but the EU failed to pass its constition last year. That does not make the Euro a likely successor to the US dollar.


[edit on 10/29/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
Gold? As currency? Not really. Beautiful. Nearly indestructible. King Tut’s head mask was brilliant after lying in the ground 3,500 years! Gold artifacts found off Florida’s coast looks as if it came out of a jewelry store even though it was under water since the 1500s.

You do know he's talking about a gold standard, not physical gold coinage. The idea is sound in principle but as you allude to, the supply of gold is far too scarce for todays hyper inflated prices. The answer lies in a silver standard. Fiat money is far too prone to manipulation and exploitation. Just look at how over inflated prices are today compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Inflation, yes, but these prices?

Originally posted by donwhite
Paper money OTOh, is perfect for commerce. Fiat money. Money based on faith. And on good fiscal management of the nations printing it.

The nations printing it? The Federal Reserve prints the US currency and the United States government buys it from the privately owned bank at interest. Interest that is then paid for by direct taxation of the American people. That isnt good fiscal management by any stretch of the imagination. Paying interest on something your congress was mandated to do on behalf of Americans gratis.

Originally posted by donwhite
The US dollars in print total about $400 billion. $240 billion is used in America, $160 billion is used outside the US. That is as close to a world currency as you will ever get. The US dollar is “backed’ by a $12 T. economy. The US is stable. That is why the US dollar is accepted around the world.

I dont meant to pick on your posts but this is outrageous. The World had no choice in accepting the US dollar as the quasi-world currency. Since WW2 the United States has actively foistered the US dollar as the premiere currency for oil sales which left no choice but for every nation on Earth to buy American dollars so as to buy oil. This primacy of American dollars in the Oil market has been aggressively defended by the United States for over 50 years. Need I remind you that Saddam Hussein openly spoke of creating an Oil bourse using Euro's narry a couple of months before the US-led invasion? The same applies to Iran who is currently in the process of creating a similar bourse.

Given the choice, countries would never of willingly succumb to American dollar domination. It was petro-dollar warfare, with warfare being the active word, that ensured it's widespread acceptance. Also the United States economy is far from stable, that's why despite it's continued stranglehold on oil transactions, countries far and wide including American allies are dumping large percentages of their American dollar holdings.

[edit on 29/10/06 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
The answer lies in a silver standard. Fiat money is far too prone to manipulation and exploitation.

Um you do realize that silver is rarer than gold? So why is the answer a silver standard? If anything, it would be a bimetallism standard or something along those lines.

This is exactly what the Republicans have had in mind for years and the logic behind all the red ink. Activists like Grover Norquist and former Gov. of Va. (and former Republican Chairman) James Gilmore (among others) are both on record as saying the idea is to run up the deficits (both state and federal) so high that congress will have no recourse but to eliminate services and their plan to do so is to cut taxes and increase spending. You really don't think that cutting the funding of such things as the EPA, or Social Services or the arts have any real effect on the deficit do you? Compared to the money devoured in pork barrel projects and the military, all the spending outside of that doesn't amount to squat in comparison. Its a scam, has always been a scam and will be a scam. They don't give a flying boinkity boinkity boink about the poor, or even the middle class, much less the Christian conservatives, not to mention social justice (or social security...privatizing it is just another scam to give it to their cronies) or the environment...all they care about it their and their owners gottdamn pocketbooks and screw everybody else.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by grover]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Um you do realize that silver is rarer than gold? So why is the answer a silver standard? If anything, it would be a bimetallism standard or something along those lines.

That is incorrect.

19,296 metric tonnes of silver were produced in 2004.

By contrast 2,604 metric tonnes of gold were produced in 2004.

Gold is currently worth 50x the price of silver, which reflects the much rarer nature of gold.

[edit on 29/10/06 by subz]

That is incorrect.

16,600 metric tonnes of silver were produced in 2000.

By contrast 2,604 metric tonnes of gold were produced in 2004.

Gold is currently worth 50x the price of silver, which reflects the much rarer nature of gold.

Consider that silver is actually rarer than gold – there is less of it above ground, and because silver is used as an industrial commodity, it is barely recoverable, unlike gold.

www.moneyweek.com...

Though silver is found deep in the earth more than gold is.

Like I said, I think Bimetallism is the answer..

posted by RetinoidReceptor

Consider that silver is actually rarer than gold – there is less of it above ground, and because silver is used as an industrial commodity, it is barely recoverable, unlike gold. www.moneyweek.com...

Though silver is found deep in the earth more than gold is. Like I said, I think Bimetallism is the answer.

"That’s putting it mildly, says independent silver analyst Ted Butler. Consider that silver is actually rarer than gold – there is less of it above ground, and because silver is used as an industrial commodity, it is barely recoverable, unlike gold.

So silver is likely to become even rarer as stockpiles deplete. Yet it seems that nobody knows this: gold is currently priced as if it were the rarer metal. “That should get your juices flowing.”
www.moneyweek.com...


I did not know this. Thx, Mr R, for up-dating my knowledge base.



[edit on 10/29/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite

So silver is likely to become even rarer as stockpiles deplete. Yet it seems that nobody knows this: gold is currently priced as if it were the rarer metal. “That should get your juices flowing.”
www.moneyweek.com...

I did not know this. Thx, Mr R, for up-dating my knowledge base.

I had not clue of that either, it just tells me how well certain markets are manipulated.

posted by subz

posted by donwhite

Gold? As currency? Not really.

“ . . he's talking about a gold standard, not physical gold coinage. The idea is sound in principle but as you allude to, the supply of gold is far too scarce for today’s hyper inflated prices. The answer lies in a silver standard. Fiat money is far too prone to manipulation and exploitation. Just look at how over inflated prices are today compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Inflation, yes, but these prices? [Edited by Don W]

By 1933, just as the Great Depression got deeper, English economist John Maynard Keynes recommended going off the gold standard because the metal standard limited the ability of governments to manipulate the currency supply. Keynes advocated “pump priming” by doing public works during depressed times. If gold does not work, then I say it is not “a sound principle.” Mr R has called silver stocks into question. But I am not a “metals” man. I’m a printing press man. As for the inherent risks in fait money, you are surely right in spades. The discount rate limits the supply of money. Setting that is more or less outside the immediate influence of politicians. Inflation is the product of many factors, but the simplistic definition is demand exceeding supply. We have managed to do a pretty good job with fiat money since 1933, about 73 years and we’ve done well - we peaked in the 1970s - but we’ve done well.

The Federal Reserve prints the US currency and the United States government buys it from the privately owned bank at interest.

I disagree, see my remarks above. The Fed sells money to banks. The US gets its money from taxes.

I don’t mean to pick on your posts but this is outrageous. The World had no choice in accepting the US dollar as the quasi-world currency. Since WW2 the United States has actively foisted the US dollar as the premiere currency . . “

Choice or no choice, it makes no difference. If you live in Kenya and want to buy beef from Argentina, you’ll have to pay in $US because Argentines don’t want your local currency and you many not have any of theirs. And etc. I think it is convenience that made the $US the world’s currency.

I remind you that Saddam Hussein openly spoke of creating an Oil bourse using Euro's [only] a couple of months before the US-led invasion? The same applies to Iran who is currently in the process of creating a similar bourse.

There aren’t enough Euro’s to do the job. People don’t use $US because they love (or hate) us, but because it is there, it is the one. I don’t know how long the twill be true, we are putting it in jeopardy by large annual deficits. But $US is still stronger than any other currency.

“ . . the United States economy is far from stable, that's why despite it's continued stranglehold on oil transactions, countries far and wide including American allies are dumping large percentages of their American dollar holdings.

I think that is sort of routine, speculating or trading in various currencies. Do not fear, the $US will survive the attack on it by Bush43 and begin to grow strong again in 2009. As much as we complain about China, and so on, we are still the top dog in the world. At $12 T. only China is close to us at about $6 T. Japan is #3 at $4 T. Russia is barely ahead of India, both around $1 T. And etc. There is no good reason to screw up our economy but after B43 is out, we can fix it.

posted by Ed Littlefox

This is why any form of privatization needs to be something that is investor-run and in the form of a co-op on the order of, say, REA. In such a case, you hire your own people and get the Govt out of the picture. Otherwise, and the risk is having a Govt agency run with all of the effectiveness of FEMA

You are being victimized Mr LittleFox. The US Government bureaucrats do the best job in the world. It is the top leaders - the Bush43 appointees who are mucking it up. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. Get the facts first.

You said a good thing about the REA - Rural Eclectic Administration - a New Deal agency that brought electricity to America’s farms and for them, forever changed the world. Republicans hate the New Deal and all it stands for. On purpose, they try to muck up the government. Bad people.

More: Here is a scam. You do not “invest” in silver, gold or precious metals. You speculate. It’s the futures market with glitz. But you can lose your money just as quick. “If you are new to investing in silver, see our guides to investing in silver and silver ETFs. Or go to our section in investing in gold, silver and precious metals for a full list of articles.” www.moneyweek.com...

Manipulation. Precisely...

I really don't know much about economy, but here's a very interesting link related to currency and how the dollar, together with the whole economic system, is a piece of crap.

finance.yahoo.com...

And i also dare to say that it isn't any different in politics with the fake BS democracy talk going on all over the world.

The only way to avoid us and following generations living in a world called "nightmare" is to confront ourselves with responsability. We, the people, should be in charge of decisions and structure. Fundamental changes are necessary.

We should not be afraid of massive changes. Because those changes are our only hope. And it's the only way to get things done properly. The only way to improve every single individual's situation.

Maybe the american situation has to be understood as an opportunity rather than feeling hopeless. Because the situation is the same all over the world, it just isn't as evident as it is in america right now.

Power to the people.