Those damn protocols won't go away...

Continued, moderately veiled antisemetic lunacy from RumorMillNews:

www.rumormillnews.net...

Tripe from the above post:

In my opinion, the Protocols are a master plan for what already has largely taken place.

Nesta Webster (World Revolution, pp.288-298) has shown that the Protocols are typical of many other Illuminati writings. It's true that the "Protocols" identify the source as largely Jewish. This may be a false scent, an attempt to scapegoat the whole Jewish people in order to protect a few bankers, their lackeys and allies. Historically the Illuminati is an occult secret society with strong aristocratic British, Aryan German, as well as Jewish financial and revolutionary elements.

If Jews became familiar with the history of the New World Order, (www.viewfromthewall.com...) we would recognize that Muslims are correct that "globalization" is a mask for a bizarre plot to enshrine the rule of the superrich under the aegis of Lucifer.

Islam is one of the last bastions of genuine God worship, the last major obstacle to pagan World Religion. The attack on Iraq is another step in the plan to destroy Islam, monopolize world resources and enslave humanity.

The cry of "anti Semitism" is being used to divert the world from this diabolical plot. By accepting the role of some apostate Jews, and their dupes, God-fearing Jews could unite with Muslims (and Christians) to bring the "blood sacrifice" to an end.

What do the learned members of ths fine community think?

This guy is correct

The Protocols are a master plan for what already has largely taken place

"Muslims are correct that "globalization" is a mask for a bizarre plot to enshrine the rule of the superrich under the aegis of Lucifer. "

I told you before, when I mention Jews and Protocols, it's just a few Jews.

"Islam is one of the last bastions of genuine God worship, the last major obstacle to pagan World Religion. The attack on Iraq is another step in the plan to destroy Islam, monopolize world resources and enslave humanity. "

An ounce of fraud taints the whole document.

Connie, we've been through this before. I didn't think anyone other than you and Brian believed they were real until I saw this article.

Thee "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are, in fact, a forgery made in Russia for the Okhrana or secret police of the time. The document was intended to be used to blame the Jews for the country's ills near the turn of the century. It was first privately printed in 1897 and was made public in 1905. It was copied from a 1860's novel by Hermann Goedsche ("Biarritz"). The basic story was composed by Goedsche, who used the pseudonym of Sir John Retcliffe. Goedsche stole the main story from another writer, Maurice Joly, whose "Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu" (1864) involved a Hellish plot aimed at opposing Napoleon III. Goedsche's original contribution consists of introducing Jews to do the plotting to take over the world.

The Russians used significant portions of a Russian translation of Goedsche's novel, published it separately as the Protocols, and claimed authenticity. Their purpose was obviously political: to strengthen the czar Nicholas II's position by exposing his opponents as being in league those who were part of a massive conspiracy to take over the world. Thus, the Protocols are in reality, a forgery of a plagiarized fiction.

The Protocols were exposed as a forgery by Lucien Wolf in The Jewish Bogey and the Forged Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (London: Press Committee of the Jewish Board of Deputies, 1920). In 1921, Philip Grave, a correspondent for the London Times, publicized the forgery. Herman Bernstein in The Truth About "The Protocols of Zion": A Complete Exposure (1935) also tried and failed to convince the world of the forgery.

The Protocols were published in 1920 in a Michigan newspaper started by Henry Ford mainly to attack Jews and Communists. Even after they were exposed as a forgery, Ford's paper continued to cite the document. Adolf Hitler later used the Protocols to help justify his attempt to exterminate Jews during World War II.

Protocols are deadly real. As a blueprint. As a Holy Bible, other Holy Scriptures, Blavatska discoveries, all other known and to be discovered (on demand) such a writings.
If you have any plan just take one and follow carefully. If you hate someone just find good excerpt in any of known prophecies and use against you enemy. Or made one and find in your garden on the tree. Do you remember all myths around 9/11 proven by Bible? Today we have a post proving that Bill Gates is a Satan what is smartly hidden in ASCII codes of his name. As a student I made several experiments in my school with Catholic prophecies (as a part of my research ).
Citizens like to have easy answers for difficult questions and clear picture of enemy.
What a sweet reason for crusade.

And remember it is for sure truth as it is my 11th post

Kronos... I think it's past the time to take your pills. If you're out, and need a refill, please consult your doctor.

William's right. The Protocols are a Russian forgery. If you were a scholar, you could pick it apart and see that the thing was inconsistant with the period when it was supposed to have been written. If you were a librarian, it'd be easy to track down the history of the copies.

Heck, if you just read the Talmud, you'd see how false it is.

It's like the "Turner Diaries." Total forgery, written to discredit someone.

As far as the Protocols go, I guess you could say that it's a "virus hoax" that was born *before* computers & it's *still* circulating...

William, I think I saw some sarcasm dripping from Krono's post. If my eyes weren't deceiving me at that point, then I don't think he needs to refill his subscription...



[Edited on 6-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

Do you remember what the thread subject was?
In the war we have, it is totally unimportant who made bullet. You will never know this for sure. The only important subject worth discussing is who is using it, how and against whom. We have a chance to have on the Internet battlefield, slightly elevated ATS hill from where we can try to understand the plots, and be ready to oppose deception.
We should together try to draw a picture and clean it out of unimportant artifacts.

Many such a �damn� writings are working, lethal weapons.

Example:

"the New Testament, the Church, and Christianity, were all the creation of the Calpurnius
Piso family, who were Roman aristocrats. The New Testament and all the characters in
it...are all fictional." more...

Take your favorite pill and let us know your opinion if New Testament is real.

Unrestricted Warfare
China�s Master Plan to Destroy America
By Cols. Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui with an Introduction by Al Santoli

One of America�s top former military commanders urges you to get your copy of this blockbuster book � the actual CIA translation of China�s military manual that discussed the specific plan of Osama bin Laden bombing the World Trade Center three years before 9/11!

www.newsmaxstore.com...

They were abstracted from a Jewish Lodge of Mizraim in Paris, in 1884, by Joseph Schorst, later murdered in Egypt. It was first published in 1905 at Tsarskoe Selo Russia, embodied in a book called The Great Within the Small, written by Sergius A. Nilus. In January 1917, a second edition, revised and documented, was ready, but before it could be put on the market for distribution and sale, the revolution had taken place (March 1917), and the Provisional Government had been replaced by that of Kerensky who himself gave the order to have the whole edition of the book burned. A few copies survived, one in England, one in Germany and one found in the U.S in 1919. As a result it was soon published widely. In England by 'The Britons', in Germany, Gottfried zum Beck, in France, Major. Jouin of the Revue Internationale des Societes Secretes and M. Urbain Gohier of Vieille France. In the U.S. two anonymous editions were published by Small Maynard of Boston and, later, the Beckwith Company.
At the outset of these publications, and many more in Italian, Russian, Arabic and Japanese, writers and lecturers were recruited to deny the assertion of a Jewish conspiracy. The method of intimidation used to suppress discussion of the document has always been the same, from the beginning of the last century to now. It consists of suggesting the person guilty of interest in the subject is crazy or becoming so. Take note of that.
Lucien Wolf, a Jewish apologist, wrote the most notable denial in a pamphlet entitled, The Jewish Bogey and the Forged Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (1920). More notable was the effort to suppress the publication in the U.S. by the Elders of the Kehillah, who, intimidated the editor, George H. Putnam, and forced him to stop the publication by threats to call his loans and ruin him financially. The final denial of the Protocols occurred in 1921 in the London Times through one of its 'anonymous' correspondents in Constantinople, who, found a French book called the Dialogues of Geneva, published anonymously in Brussels in 1865. The Times affirmed that it was from this book that the Protocols had been plagarized. Ta - Da. Neat and tidy....but wait...there is more.
What the Times didn't reveal was that the book Dialogues of Geneva bears in reality the following title, the former being a subtitle, Dialogues aux Enjers entre Machiavelli et Montesquieu, actually published in 1864, with the introduction ending , Geneva, October 13, 1865. It was written by a lawyer, Maurice Joly as an attack against the government of Napoleon III. As a result, he was tried and sentenced to two years prison. Who was Maurice Joly? His father was Philipe Lambert Joly, born Dieppe Normandy. He was the attorney general for the department of Jura for 10 years under Louis Phillipe. Maurice Joly was educated at Dijon and began his law studies there, but in 1849, left for Paris. There, due to his maternal grandfathers Masonic associations, he secured, just before the Coup d'Etat in 1851, a post in the Ministry of the Interior under M. Chevreau. In 1860 ONLY, he terminated his law studies, he wrote several articles, showed a certain amount of talent and ended by founding a paper called Le Palais for lawyers and attorneys. The principle stock holders were Jules Favre, Desmaret, Leblond, Adolphe Cremieux, Arago and Berryer. All of which are noted for their involvment in the many Masonic institutes that sprang up during and before that era. You get the picture...
Anyways, here is the important part of the picture that The London Times 'forgot' to mention. Maurice Joly, who hated Communism and, in 1864, ascribed the Machiavellian policy of Might over Right to the Imperialism of Napoleon III, was evidently ignorant of the fact that he himself was no innovator, for, long before he ever entered the journalistic or political world, the very theory which he had tried to expose and refute had been the guiding principle of a group of ardent revolutionists, promoters of Communism, and worthy followers of Illuminatis and Babouvists, the group of Karl Marx, Jacoby etc, the agitators of the 1848 revolution. Long before Joly's book had made its appearance, another book bearing much the same title had been published in Berlin in 1850 called Machiavelli, Montesquieu, Rousseau by Jacob Venedy and was published by Franz Dunicker, Berlin.
Jacob Venedy, the author, was a Jew, born in Cologne, May 1805, died February 1871. Owing to his revolutionary activities, he was expelled from Germany and sought refuge in France. While living in Paris, in 1835, he edited a subversive paper called Le Proscrit which caused his banishment from Paris. He then lived in Le Havre, and was allowed to enter Paris once more due to the efforts of Arago (mentioned above) and Mignet, both friends of Adolphe Cremieux (also mentioned above). Venedy was a close friend of Karl Marx. He had spent the years 1843-44 in England which at that time was the refuge of all of the master minds of the 1848 revolution. In 1847 Venedy was in Brussels with Karl Marx who had founded there The Communist League of Workers, which eventually surfaced as The International Society of Democracy. It was shortly after the revolution of 1848 that Venedy became one of the chiefs of the Commitee of Fifty. It was during his commission as elected member of the left, in Berlin, that he published the aforementioned document. He was later expelled from Berlin and Breslau for his activity in the Masonic Order Bauhutte, which was affiliated with the Carbonari of Italy.
It is remarkable that anyone who studies the period of history say from 1830-1850 never seems to notice the obvious.
Fould, The Rothschilds of Paris, London and Vienna, Montfiore, Disraeli, the Goldsmids, all, were not less Jews than Karl Marx, Moses Hess, Jacoby, Lassalle, Venedy or Riesser. The Liberal Conservatism of Disraeli, the reactionary Imperialism of Fould, and the revolutionary Communism of Marx all suggest the same end. How are they all linked? Adolphe Cremieux, and his agent Leon Gambetta.
Adolphe Isaac Cremieux came from a Jewish family of the South of France. He chose law as his profession (admitted to the Bar at Nimes 1817). His life can be viewed from three sides 1. His Jewish activities 2. His Masonic activities and 3. His political influence.
His part in the Damascus Affair of 1840 with Moses Montefiore, an English Jew, unconvincingly silenced the accusation of ritual murder committed on the Catholic Priest, Father Thomas. He had a prominent share in the foundation and development of the Alliance Israelite Universelle. Officially founded in 1860, this international union of disseminated Jewry had, as we know, existed for centuries, but after the Damascus affair, it was brought to public light as a display of Jewish loyalties to Jewish society. The Masonic activities of Adolphe were many and powerful. His connection with Louis Bonaparte and his brother, who both were affiliated with the Carbonari, would suggest that he was also connected with this secret society. It is a fact though, that Cremieux belonged to the Lodge of Mizraim, the Scottish Rite, and also the Grand Orient. He was the Supreme Council of the Order of Mizraim and, at the death of Viennet, he became the Grand Master of the unified Scottish Rite and Grand Orient. He went on to have influence in both the government of Louis Napoleon and the government of the Republic formed after the defeat of France by the Germans in 1871, which he helped orchestrate with the Jewish banker Bamburger of Bischoffsheim and Goldschmidt. At a general assembly of the Alliance Israelite Universelle on May 31 1864 Cremieux said : 'The Alliance is no limited to our cult, it voices its appeal to all cults and wants to penetrate in all the religions as it has penetrated into all countries. Let us endeavour boldly to bring about the union of all cults under one flag of Union and Progress. Such is the slogan of humanity.' The Alliance had its birth in the Rite of Mizraim and Universal Freemasonry and was backed by International Finance. It should be clear that the ideas expressed by Venedy, Joly, and later published by Nilus were those of Cremieux, who, founded what became the patriarch of Zionism and the B'nai Brith, and as is exampled by Marx, the Communist system. Thank you, and Goodnight....

Ma-Ha...

My research (about 12 years ago) found the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to be a forgery made in Russia for the Okhrana or secret police. The document was intended to be used to blame the Jews for the country's ills near the turn of the century. It was first privately printed in 1897 and was made public in 1905. It was copied from a 1860's novel by Hermann Goedsche ("Biarritz"). The basic story was composed by Goedsche, who used the pseudonym of Sir John Retcliffe. Goedsche stole the main story from another writer, Maurice Joly, whose "Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu" (1864) involved a Hellish plot aimed at opposing Napoleon III. Goedsche's original contribution consists of introducing Jews to do the plotting to take over the world.

The Russians used significant portions of a Russian translation of Goedsche's novel, published it separately as the Protocols, and claimed authenticity. Their purpose was obviously political: to strengthen the czar Nicholas II's position by exposing his opponents as being in league those who were part of a massive conspiracy to take over the world. Thus, the Protocols are in reality, a forgery of a plagiarized fiction.

The Protocols were exposed as a forgery by Lucien Wolf in The Jewish Bogey and the Forged Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (London: Press Committee of the Jewish Board of Deputies, 1920). In 1921, Philip Grave, a correspondent for the London Times, publicized the forgery. Herman Bernstein in The Truth About "The Protocols of Zion": A Complete Exposure (1935) also tried and failed to convince the world of the forgery.

The Protocols were published in 1920 in a Michigan newspaper started by Henry Ford mainly to attack Jews and Communists. Even after they were exposed as a forgery, Ford's paper continued to cite the document. Adolf Hitler later used the Protocols to help justify his attempt to exterminate Jews during World War II.


But... given my history of not jumping to fantastic conclusions relating to NWO-styled controlling secert societies... you, and others here, will now probably claim me to be a disinformationist and dismiss my post. Too bad, because you can come to NYC, stop by the main branch library, and ask to see the "Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu" pamphlet (bring a friend who can read 18th century French) and see for yourself (as I did).

In fact, the Guardian (a well-respected Brit newspaper) proclaimed it one of the top 10 literary hoaxes of all times.

books.guardian.co.uk...


5. Protocols of the Elders of Zion

A hoax with a pernicious and enduring legacy: the Protocols, detailing a plot by a secret cabal of Jewish financiers to take over the world, were probably fabricated in 1905. In the 1920s, Henry Ford fulminated against the 'secret cabal' in his anti-semitic newspaper, and fringe groups have given the Protocols credence ever since.

Don�t you think that this CIA translated �secret plan� is a kind of another virus ready to be used against China in future? Instead of analyzing past history of damn anti-Jews bullet we actually see how such a protocols works today just from the beginning. Even here people not questioning if this something is real or not but just follows that myth�

xmb.abovetopsecret.com...

Of course it is something what was written by someone and in that sense is real. But this �Chinese plan to destroy America� now is used as a blueprint by some other, unknown dark forces.

I'll quote my resources so you can go to the library yourself;
L.Fry, Waters Flowing Eastward
Jean Izoulet, Paris, Capitale des Religions
P.B. Gheusi, Gambetta, Life and Letters
Die Bauhutte Feb.25, 1871 issue
Robert Freke Gould, The History of Freemasonry Vol .II
To name just a few offhand.
Now, I think it is simply a matter of deciding who's resources one would choose as the most reliable and trustworthy with regards to the Protocols. As evidenced through my research, the documents origins are older than that shown by your research, and, mine is inclusive of the document you place as being the origin. A quick look at the membership of the Bolshevik Socialists at the time of the Russian Revolution will show quite conclusively that the whole event was masterminded by Jews, (See, Rulers of Russia) who were in complete concordance with Marxist (Mordechai) theory. I don't think you are a dis-informationalist, you just stop looking when you think you have all the answers.
Oh yeah, Kerensky was Jewish, his real name, Aron Kirbiz, he adopted the name of his stepfather, and, by the way, he was 32 Degree Scottish Rite. It would explain why he ordered the work of Nilus burned.

[Edited on 22-11-2002 by Ma-Ha-Bone]

[Edited on 22-11-2002 by Ma-Ha-Bone]

Hate and fear will indeed cloud your judgement.

Ma-Ha, there's a LOT of interesting information when you search for "Waters Flowing Eastward" -- including that title under several different authors.

To be frank, I think it's a conspiracy -- somebody's got an agenda here. Book titles aren't copyrightable, but I've never seen so many books with the same title... on both sides of the fence.

----
So here's the info on the first one (note 1934 publication, 3rd edition) :
Fry, Lionel.
Waters Flowing Eastward.
Chatou: British American Press, 1934.
DS141 F75 1934
In the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee's Golda Meir Library, found by searching on Jews and Socia Justice.)


And now the second one, available ONLY at White Supremacist sites:
Waters Flowing Eastward, by Mrs. L. Fry and Father Denis Fahey on how the Jews gained Palestine, links between Communism and Zionism. How the Protocols fell into Christian hands and the attempts to suppress them. 283 pages. $4.50


A third one, published originally in France (the one you referred to,I believe?) :
"WATERS FLOWING EASTWARD The War Against The Kingship of Christ. By Mrs. L. Fry (published in English in 1921 by Revue internationale des soci�t�s secr�tes, Paris. )
Authoress, Fry, was married to one of the aristocrats of Czarist Russia and she suffered harrowing experiences in the days of the Bolshevist Revolution. This first hand knowledge of Communism in action has given authority to her writings. For many years she was associated with the work of the late French priest, Monsignor Joiun, helping him in his researches into the atheistic and Judeo-Bolshevist plot against Christianity.


There's a nice little tangled web here, and there's some very obvious agendas being pushed around as well as some obvious nonsense. I'm still looking for/at the other sources.

Ok. Monkeys and chickens don't make good bedfellows. Have you anymore bits of advice? I just look at things as they are presented to me and as they come up doing research. Facts are facts. Plain and simple. I think that arrogance and advertising maybe has clouded your judgement, but that doesn't change facts.
Byrd, yes I was referring to the Third. Dennis Fahey wrote 'Rulers of Russia'.
If you really want an excellent overview, with some personally biased extrapolations mixed in that are easy to spot as such, I suggest that you read Occult Theocracy by Edith Starr Miller. The work in itself is very well researched and documented. You will have great difficulty coming up with many of the resources unfortunately. I wish that I could share some of the books that I have in my library with everyone or that everyone could be trusted to return them. Such it is. I'll just have to type everything out. How tedious!

Don't you find it suspicious that the only ones who think Protocols is truthful are the neo-Nazi/White Supremacist sites and a few of the very very fundamental Christian sites... while everyone else thinks it's a Russian forgery?

for those, for the most part, blind associations to attribute the transgressions of the few to the whole of Jewish people. The same inference could be held up as a mirror image to the U.S.A., comparing it's populace to the individuals who create destructive and intrusive foreign policy in the interests of a select few. The situation is much the same. I also do not believe that 'everyone else' does think it is a forgery (an interesting term used in its description, as a forgery is a non-original copy of a document that claims authenticity as original, which begs the question, what is it a copy of?). As far as it goes, information is a tool that can be used for positive or negative ends depending on how it is applied. Unfortunately, as it seems in most cases when the cry of anti-semitism, racism, xenophobic nationalism, sexism, etc. is heard, the facts are undermined by the wrong intent of the adherents, who, by virtue of irrational bias, present irrational conclusions from the facts. In essence, both parties undermine freedom of speech, and certainly, freedom of truth, by curtailing further efforts into the analysis of said fact through fear of the application of unjustified appellation or labels. It is no crime to research the common associations of people who derive power in the public dominion, no matter what type of association that is, religious, racial, fraternal or philosophical. It is in fact the duty of everyone to determine the intent, characteristics, and personal outlooks of those people who do have any type of influence in their lives, from daycare employee, to politician, to journalist, to movie producer etc. Short of personally familiarizing oneself with those individuals, you can only base your investigation on readily available information such as religion, cultural background, familial history, admissions and the reality of the effects resulting from that individuals sphere of influence in your life, and possibly the lives of those around you. This is the truth. I think that as long as there are people who can be duped into erroneous extremes, there is something that should be investigated further, not fearfully avoided. Many are the items that have been discredited during the contemporary moment of revelation that have, with time, proven to be truthful. Alas, such is the effect that public opinion has. In this dark age, truth is only public opinion. It is an age of relativity, with no absolutes, a ship, if you will, with a sycophantic helmsman, taking orders from the breezes that lull him into sleep.
My general rules are thus: If you think you know something, that is all the more reason to examine it further.
If you admit you may know nothing, you know more than you admit to knowing.