15 y/o given Life Sentence

You assume they would remain independent. They most certainly would not. Hasn't Kurt Russell taught you anything?!

Originally posted by DYepes
Ok so how do you go about proving that Deus? Does this apply to even small infractions like mine? Would you prefer I had been locked away for the rest of my life? What standards would you have used to have me prove my ability to reintergrate me?

My favorite happens to be rehabilitation in the case of drugs. Psych testing would certainly help. Career councelling, if need be. Councelling, good behavior, etc. Basically, earn your way out. Too many people 'fake good'. Regular drug tests. I hate parole.

A better system of law might help. Possesion for personal use shouldn't be a crime. Vandalism should have fines and community service attached. To be honest and skanky for the service personel involved, giving young offenders the option of jail-or-army should never go out of style. I mean, if poverty combined with unwillingness to follow the system is the root of most property offences, there should be councelling, sure, to help them cope with the fact that life sucks, they're gonna hafta work.

I really, really don't believe people who commit capital crimes are capabel of reform, nor are recidivists. It's a waste of taxpayer money to try and turn a rapist into a member of society. You can try (and it probably won't work) for property and drug crimes, but crimes against the person...

DE

Originally posted by jsobecky

NJE777... What is GBH?

Grevious Bodily Harm

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
But,i find it hard to be compassionate to someone who has committed an act as serious as murder.
Would you feel comfortable in a room with a "reformed" killer?Not sure i would.

well...I understand pain, hatred and fear and what it feels like to believe that you will always be trapped in the painfull situation you're in: the reasons to why people do such destructive things as what this boy did, so I can understand the act. therefore, I at least think I could be comfortabe with someone who have killed before.

-

however, I'd like to point out that as you argue about how to solve the problems after they arise, what about working for a society where things like this do not happen in the first place? this world is full of fear and uncertainty...if that is the basic feeling that runs through society, when will we ever feel safe? there are so many things these days which you can be afraid of, and so little understanding to recieve. from my point of view, it only makes if harder for people not to act like maniacs.

just a thought...

Its terrible hes going to be out way before hes 30.

Life inside sounds like a good thing until you realise it can be only 10 years.

Why not actually tell everyone the actual sentence he will serve rather than hide behind a life statement thats nowhere near that.

In the US, you can get 5 years for copying a single DVD, in the UK you get 12 years for premeditated murder. Both case are examples of the insane justice systems.

You can get UP TO five years for copying a DVD because that is the maximum sentence possible. Its a third degree felony and anytime someone guilty of a crime no matter how rediculous it is at a 3 degree felony the news always report UP TO five years. The real sentence is almost always just a fine, probation, and some community service. Maybe less than 6 months in jail at worst.

The maximum sentence is obviously not twelve years in the UK for murder, but Life is. Therefore the news just reports LIFE IN PRISON because it is the max sentence and sounds like the most dramatic thing to the viewers. I hope I have helped you understand the way it works.

Second degree felony is 5-15 years in prison max, although unless its capital, or a serious bout of habitual offenses, you probably will not see much more than a year or two at worst.

Theoretically, federal law allows persons convicted of felonies in a federal United States district court to apply to have their record expunged after a certain period of time with a clean record. However, the U.S. Congress has refused to fund the federal agency mandated with handling the applications of convicted felons to have their record expunged. This means that, in practice, federal felons cannot have their records expunged.

For state law convictions, expunction is determined by the law of the state. Some states do not allow this, regardless of the offense, resulting in a subclass of citizens. These citizens can have extreme difficulty finding a job or even a place to live, regardless of qualifications or references, often resulting in their return to a life of crime.

Now although I am good citizen today, I cannot own any firearms for several mroe years, I will never be able to work in a financial job or anything dealing with finances, unless I open up shop myself. I am practically unable to get any decent jobs above the poverty line. I may never be able to run for an elected public position, although I have been looking for loopholes for some time now.

Well look at that, it is just so easy to be accepted back into society isnt it. Spare me the "shouldna done what ya did" crap, I did what I did, paid for it, and now I should have the opportunity to return to an equal life.

Of course capital offenses, if dealt with the way I have outlined in my previous posts, may be able to return to society and have their sins forgiven. I think it is at least worth trying, obviously what we are doing now is not working too well if people are complaining about it, and the worlds largest prison population just continues to grow.

[edit on 10/18/2006 by DYepes]

Wow, could you be any more condescending and yet still miss the points I made.

Originally posted by DYepes
Well look at that, it is just so easy to be accepted back into society isnt it. Spare me the "shouldna done what ya did" crap, I did what I did, paid for it, and now I should have the opportunity to return to an equal life.

I agree, in theory, that you should have the opportunity for an equal life. You've done your time, and you've kept out of trouble in the meantime. However, how many others cna say the same? As for your work opportunities, well, now that high finance is gone, perhaps you should persue something different. Is it just me, or some putting a thief or fraudster into an arena with lots of money floating around seem like a bad idea?

Of course capital offenses, if dealt with the way I have outlined in my previous posts, may be able to return to society and have their sins forgiven. I think it is at least worth trying, obviously what we are doing now is not working too well if people are complaining about it, and the worlds largest prison population just continues to grow.

They will return to society savages, savages capable of anything no less. They will harbor hatred towards society for their exile. And no, they won't be forgiven. People always complain, DYepes, and the prison population is growing due to more minor crimes being prosecuted harshly, such a drug possesion. Tommy chong got 9 months in a federal prison for selling bongs over the interweb. I mean, that's just idiotic.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
They will return to society savages, savages capable of anything no less. They will harbor hatred towards society for their exile. And no, they won't be forgiven. People always complain, DYepes, and the prison population is growing due to more minor crimes being prosecuted harshly, such a drug possesion. Tommy chong got 9 months in a federal prison for selling bongs over the interweb. I mean, that's just idiotic.

DE

That was exactly my point, people are getting put in prison for minor things like copying DVDs or even refusing to sell fruit and veg by the kg yet murderers should be kept locked up for life and drivers nearly always get away with death by drunk driving.

It seems one DVD or punishing someone for selling a bong is worth more than a human life. Punish the bad crimes harshly and stop putting people away for victimless crimes.

I totally agree, I think all of our penal systems are totally screwed up, especially that of the United States. We shouldn't be jailing people for marijuana or even coc aine and let out murderers and rapists.

I totally agree, I think all of our penal systems are totally screwed up, especially that of the United States. We shouldn't be jailing people for marijuana or even coc aine and let out murderers and rapists.

Agrees, look at how many Justice reforms acts have been brought in by the Present British Gov alone. When A Murder is jailed for Life for killing someone else, that should mean life until you die in jail, not being let out of jal 30 or 40 years laters just because you have been a good little murderer while behind bars or been reformed.

The Justice system in the UK is a complete JOKE. Until this mess is sorted out, with regards to sentencin on Cases, this is going to continue.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Agrees, look at how many Justice reforms acts have been brought in by the Present British Gov alone. When A Murder is jailed for Life for killing someone else, that should mean life until you die in jail, not being let out of jal 30 or 40 years laters just because you have been a good little murderer while behind bars or been reformed.

So no forgiveness whatsoever? What if the inmate is nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize? What if the inmate can do much more to help society on the outside?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
So no forgiveness whatsoever? What if the inmate is nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize? What if the inmate can do much more to help society on the outside?

What if he kills again? How many chances is he going to get to destroy other peoples lives.

Cold blooded, pre meditated murderers don't deserve to ever be let out. I'm pretty sure you'd be saying the same if someone killed your husband/wife/child.

It depends on the situation. Blanket rules often do more harm than good. Being subjective and taking each case as an individual case would be the best way to handle these things IMO.

This was not a cold blooded, premeditated murder, at least according to the prosecution.

This was a hot blooded, spur of the moment murder, apparently committed when the 14 year-old perpetrator panicked about being exposed as gay.

Whether that makes it any better is another issue entirely.

[edit on 10/18/06 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex
This was not a cold blooded, premeditated murder, at least according to the prosecution.

I thought it was by the defence. The proof seems pretty clear to me.

1. He lured the boy to his house.

2. He assaulted him first with firsts, then with a frying pan, then with a knife. At any point, he could have desisted his assault. However, it was sustained, single-minded, and bloody.

3. He took pains in order to conceal the crime, including cleaning up the scene.

If that's not premeditation...

DE

xmotex, really doesn't matter, premeditated or not.

Apparently, whatever he did was sever enough to warrent being tried as an adult, hence the sentence.

It should not be a question as to whether Michael Hamer intended to kill his victim:

In English law following Moloney [1985] AC 905, the mens rea requirement is an intention to cause death, or to cause serious injury knowing that death will probably result. To that extent, whether on a subjective or objective test, there must be some element of premeditation, even if only of very short duration.

Source.

The fact that he assaulted him with enough force so that in the eyes of the reasonable person death could result, then it's murder. Premeditation does not have to mean a meticulously planned crime, only the knowledge that the defendant was of sound mind, and that their actions were intended to cause at the least, serious injury.

At least I think so, I did fail law at college.

Whatever. If we are not going to firgive anyone, we might as well just put a bullet through their head. It does not matter that a slew of convicted death penalty prisoners have already been released after being found innocent and wrongly convicted.

You really do not know if they will come back savages or not. If that were the case, human beings would have never gotten to where we are today, because hey there was a time when all of humanity were living that way. Goodness there are natives that still live like that in Africa, Asia, and South America. Lo and behold, they are not so savage that they allow themselves in some instcances to be documented for our educational viewing pleasure.

I say don't knock it till we tried it.

You should do some studying regarding Sociopaths. (Psychopathy is the same thing) According to what I've read this most commonly surfaces in adolescent boys. Sociopaths minds don't function like ours. They do not feel emotion. They instead learn to mimic it to get what they want. They live in a me, me, me world. This sounds like a classic case to me. He is probably still oblivious as to why what he did was wrong. To him it probably seemed the right thing to do and the punishment has no meaning to him. He will most likely be a model prisoner to try and get out. If he does he will probably repeat. Most are harmless but the few who are not account for the most horrible crimes.

It is important for the parents to understand it is not their fault. This behavior is caused by an improperly functioning brain. There is no cure. They must be contained until there is or they will cause harm again. Society has no choice. When these people are released they are ticking time bombs.