Little theory of mine

What if aliens don't travel dozens of lightyears to come here? What if they came here a long time ago in generational-ship and built a base or bases in one or many of the asteroids in the asteroid-belt surrounding our solarystem? These asteroids surely contain all sorts of metals and water they can use for further development. They could then use their craft to come scare the # out of us and probe us with little gizmo's.

Does this seem plausible or am I talking crap here?

Travel by deminsional modification
interdimensional travel is much more likely
when you create a rift or hole in time and space
and create a another hole anywhere in the universe
you should be able to travel between the two points in "No Time"
I shure your right they have bases around here somewhere though ..many have been reported
have you read the Dulce papers ?

there are no aliens.not in the solar system anywhay.

Teknoman. Aliens could be right here on Earth, living in underground bases. They could mine asteroids for the materials that they might need however. They are studying us, so its possible that they are very close to Earth, on Moon, or Mars.

straterx: Hi, can you post a link to Dulce papers plz. I'd like to read it.

Originally posted by Teknoman
What if aliens don't travel dozens of lightyears to come here? What if they came here a long time ago in generational-ship and built a base or bases in one or many of the asteroids in the asteroid-belt surrounding our solarystem? These asteroids surely contain all sorts of metals and water they can use for further development. They could then use their craft to come scare the # out of us and probe us with little gizmo's.

Does this seem plausible or am I talking crap here?

Anything is possible, nothing surprises me anymore to be honest. If green scaly creatures with pink stripes landed on Earth to declare peace i'd probably laff and continue my daily grind.

Originally posted by straterx
Travel by deminsional modification
interdimensional travel is much more likely
when you create a rift or hole in time and space
and create a another hole anywhere in the universe
you should be able to travel between the two points in "No Time"
I shure your right they have bases around here somewhere though ..many have been reported
have you read the Dulce papers ?

You must be smart. Where did you learn the physics behind that? You sound so sure of yourself. Yet there is absolutely no reasonable evidence for that claim. Maybe someday. Not today.

Originally posted by Teknoman
What if aliens don't travel dozens of lightyears to come here? What if they came here a long time ago in generational-ship and built a base or bases in one or many of the asteroids in the asteroid-belt surrounding our solarystem? These asteroids surely contain all sorts of metals and water they can use for further development. They could then use their craft to come scare the # out of us and probe us with little gizmo's.

Does this seem plausible or am I talking crap here?

You are on to the only acceptable, current alien theory as of yet. It is still unlikely though. The only logical way you can reason that aliens visit earth, is if they were here before us. Even though there is no evidence of that, it is the only acceptable theory.

The Dulce Papers are PURE CRAP!! They are a wonderful work of fiction, that's about it. I wouldn't look into them for anything more than a chuckle or a nightmare.

Uhm, what are the Dulce Papers? Does it have something to do with aliens?

The dolce papaers are something that only people who have closed minds believe are true.

Okay here it is, we all know that life must exist outside of Earth. But where and how far away. And given the great distance and even if they had the ability to wrap space and make hyper jumps or whatever you want to call it.

WHY? WHY come to Earth? Why come ALL THIS DISTANCE and not take anything of value ? WHY not land and stretch your legs out a little ? WHY NOT ?

Are UFO's real? Are they man made and somehow shifted through time and space piloted by humans? Are they a glimnce of a brief dimensional shift or tear that only certain people are capable of seeing ?

IF you believe in Aliens and UFO and believe they have or are visiting Earth then you must answer the following questions in your mind and still have a reasonable belief that "they" are indeed here.

1. A life form that was created or originated on another planet either came from an enviroment like or dislike Earth.

2. IF their enviroment is dislike Earth's atmospheric conditions then Earth's atmospheric condition then MUST be inhospitable to them without the aid of some support aparatus, ie men going to the moon or mars would find death quickly without the aid of a space suit. This would rule out an Alien being able to come out of their craft and dominate the planet let alone adventure in the woods without a space suit or some type of protective gear.

2a. while it could be plausible that the "alien" could have adaptive genetics allowing it to sustain its lifeforce via a multitude of atmospheric composition. I would classify this in the pure realm of fantasy along with the ability to shape shift or morph.

3. Real matter whether on the planet or off behaves under certain conditions universally. Breaking the composition and rebuilding living matter is only the ability of GOD. As the ability to do such would mean the ability to alter all of the known existance. As "aliens" in whatever form that they may be were also ultimatly created by GOD as well.

4. Considering the propulsion system, it must have some sort of decay rate whether powered by some sort of clean fussion or fission the central drive system MUST have some way of storing and converting energy. Therfore if it is to be a real and solid object it must also conform to the basic rules of solid objects. Materials used in its construction must have physical properties that allow for the covelant bond of the atomic particles used in its construction. While it is possible that the crafts external structure could be a smart metal allowing for electro-magnetic morphing of its form to follow its intended function. ie changing shape from a sphere to a delta type or disk type structure, as long as the internal control and propulsion mechanisims are retained in its original configuration.
(IDEA) possibly Earth is a galactic gas station and the UFO's cruise into our atmosphere to recharge their propulsion system by sucking up "free gravitons" for lack of a better word. This is the free energy ether that exists between every void between atoms. It even exists in space but is vary sparce in space and given the density of our atmosphere we might be a great "way point" also answering why the UFO's really have no interest in landing and taking little break from there space travels.

5. IF the "aliens" come from a comparable atmosphere including gravitional force, then I would expect that there mission would be for recon of suitable donor worlds for their expansion. Given the reports that date back into ancient times I feel they would have had plenty of time to rally their ships and would have surely captured Earth already for their own use. As well as if they are indeed visiting from another planet and our atmosphere was prime for them and seeing as they would have the more advanced technology why would they not just land and take a little look around. It would seem to be a big waste of energy to land for a moment or two only to rocket back up into space, which seems to be the bulk of the UFO observations.

6. considering the great distance the craft would have to travel the "aliens" either have a very long lifespan, a means of altering the aging process or repeatedly clone themselves while enroute to their destination. This also assumes that if they are visiting Earth then they must also be visiting other inhabited planets. Why would Earth be the only place they would visit. Unless Earth is the only place worth going to in the universe. Then if this is true what about their home planet? Is it overpopulated and they have sent a few explorers over time to go seek out new planets and then what ? They never get home to tell them where Earth is ? How did they detect Earth and know that is was a suitable destination? Even before man had the ability to send radio waves into space. Before man had an rocket or even an airplane or even electricity ? How would the "aliens" know that we are even here ?

7. is it possible that just like our Mars Explorers and rovers and other probes that we have sent out to explore our solar system so have other "alien" civilizations ? Then is it possible that the UFO's that have been sighted or expeirenced are simply recon probes sent from a far off distant solar system? Are they collecting data that will takes thousands of years to be transmitted back to its home planet? Some say a sub light speed craft could take up to 40,000 years to reach us from another solar system. And the originating people could have long expired before their probe even reached us. Even so the probe could be programed to look for specific criteria set up by its creator and then to transmit back only data that matched. Maybe looking for conditions to support their people or resources needed in their society.

8. orbital space junk. the insane amount of space junk that is currently in orbit is not only a hazard to our own space gear, space station, statellites etc. But would be a hazard to any ship coming from another planet. IT is only with the constant tracking across the globe and the constant adjusting of our "space goods" that they are not taken out by a piece of space junk. A real UFO would have to deal with this danger when entering into orbit and Earths atmospher.

9. is reality really what you see it as, or is it something different ? Does your brain show you images that are convicing to you even if they dont exist ? Do people who hallucinate really think that what they "see" is not real ? or is it the other way around? How would you know if you did see an "alien" what would your brain tell you if you did see something it could not interpret ? IF their was a real "alien" and they had the ability to adjust things in your brain, what would they want you to see ? Would they want you to see an "alien" a monster, something that would terrify you ? or would they want to blend in and make you think that everything is okay ? Do you remember the mini series "V" its kind of on that idea but you needed the special "blue blocker" sunglasses to see who the aliens where and low and behold they where everywhere. They had already integrated into our society. A simple signal that was transmitted from a cloaked mothership "adjusted" the brains recognition of the "alien" form. Thus humans when seeing "aliens" only saw another "human" and this allowed the aliens to go about there task of genetically altering the human population, one procreation at a time.

10. can the human brain provide an image of something unknown to it? or does it replace the "visual sensation" that the eyes see with something that it knows or associates with it? This would allow for the common description of the greys etc. from people across the world as well as through the ages of time. This human acceptance of what an "alien" is.

So why come millions of miles to do nothing, to take nothing, to leave no lasting mark that they were here.

Or have they ??????????????????????????????????

Originally posted by robertfenix
So why come millions of miles to do nothing, to take nothing, to leave no lasting mark that they were here.

Or have they ??????????????????????????????????

They created us..and are just checking in on the experiment.

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by straterx
Travel by deminsional modification
interdimensional travel is much more likely
when you create a rift or hole in time and space
and create a another hole anywhere in the universe
you should be able to travel between the two points in "No Time"
I shure your right they have bases around here somewhere though ..many have been reported
have you read the Dulce papers ?

You must be smart. Where did you learn the physics behind that? You sound so sure of yourself. Yet there is absolutely no reasonable evidence for that claim. Maybe someday. Not today.

Is Quantum pyhsics... all theoretical of course as we havnt actually done this... another idea is you can fold constrict time and space ahead of you and thus reduce the distance needed to travel

Originally posted by robertfenix
6. considering the great distance the craft would have to travel the "aliens" either have a very long lifespan, a means of altering the aging process or repeatedly clone themselves while enroute to their destination.

Actually, by going near the speed of light, time dilation causes time to run slower for the aliens in the spacecraft. This would theoretically allow them to cover great distances within a life time. They would have to find a propulsion system that can make a spacecraft go near lightspeed.

Overall, I think your argument is right, but this is just one point I thought was a bit wrong.

There has to be other intelligent life out there we can't be the only ones here in this massive universe surely. I have seen programs and on the news about other galaxies that can hold life more below:

www.sky.com...

But what I can't understand is everybody who have 'met' and 'seen' Aliens usually describe same height with arms, legs, hands, eyes etc... A little too human? My theory is that there are Aliens out there but they might be little worms in golfballs flying around or just a mist with the ability to think I just get the feeling that people tend to describe Aliens too much with human features.

[Edited on 28-1-2004 by Mikomi]

Interdimentional travel is indeed posible, exept it is not so much interdimential the just dimentional.

The problem is that you have to create two holes, these would have to be black holes but linked, so instead of leading to nothing it leads to an exit point, a "white hole". Everything that enters these holes would be subjected to the gravity of a black hole, which as you can guess causes problems, the key is to use a form of matter known to cause "anti gravity". But still one of the biggest problems is ripping a hole through space to create two linked holes, which (although we know is possible) we have no idea how to do.

A much more realistic method that the "aliens" use a gravity well transportation, the front of the craft draws gravity toward it, and the back dispells it. So you are in essence moving the universe around you. This gets around the "You cant go faster then the speed of light" rule. But the process would require tremendous amounts of energy.

The reason I assume that the "aliens" would require some type of lifespan control is the amount of energy it takes to propel matter at even a fraction of light speed. According to Einstien the amount of energy required to move one unit of mass is something in the range of 1,000 times its mass conversion according to the theory of releativity. This type of power output is outside of our current realm of comprehension for an output of a propulsion device. Theorists argue that given enough TIME you could propel a craft to near lightspeed with constanst acceraltion from a "reactive" drive unit. But the time frame it would take and the runout distance is incredibly huge. Thus starting lets say from a a planets orbit considering escape velocity etc. And an orbit velocity in the range of 28,000 miles per hour. And now the craft sets off for deep space it has to accelerate from 28,000 mph to 8,640,000 mph now you have to use the formula for mass and velocity and plug in your mass of the "alien" craft and your target velocity (lightspeed) and your result is the amount of energy required to sustain the craft at that velocity. So now lets assume that the "alien" drive unit has 2 times the push as the weight of the craft at x power input. But every time you time you double the velocity you have to quadruple the input energy to maintain the new velocity.
That equals to 154 times the velocity doubles to reach lightspeed and 4 to the 154th power that the input power goes up over the original input power.

521,481,209,941,628,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.00

This is how many times the input power you would need to achieve lightspeed of a 10,000 lbs mass with a propulsion drive capable of producing 2x the mass. ie 20,000lbs of thrust. Plug in your drive of choice and convert mass velocity to joules or watts and then multiple that by the above huge number 4 to the 154th power and bingo you have the total energy to sustain lightspeed velocity of your craft. Now you have to factor in the the total energy consumption for the duration of your flight at lightspeed. So if you were departing from a planet that is 45 lightyears away you have to calculate your run up time to approach lightspeed which could be anywhere from 6 days to 100 years considering your drive type of choice and then the remaining distance to travel at light speed converted back into jouels or watts per hour and the decay life of your drive materials. So considering this you would need the power output of a small sun to drive your 10,000 lb craft at the speed of light over a distance of 45 lightyears. Simple outside of the realm of possibility as we know it. This is why I would rule out the possibility of an "alien" craft traveling at the speed of light. So therefore if the craft is traveling at 100th of the speed of light then multiple the light years by 100. So a 45 light year distance becomes 4,500 years etc. Way outside the lifespan of any organic living material that we know of today.

IF they are to travel to our solar system and the EBE is to survive the trip, then either A it has an incredible lifespan or means of slowing the genetic clock or B must travel through some mechanizim outside of our understanding of the universe. or C there has never been another lifeform (outside of bacteria) that has visited this planet in a spacecraft from another solar system.

thats why his post is title little theroy not law do you know the meaning of theory.

Robertphoenix, how you get that 8,64*10^6 mph as a speed.

That's 3,862*10^6 m/s, while the lightspeed is 2,99792458*10^8 m/s. I'll do my own calcutions for a 10000 kg spaceship with 100% efficiency, that accelerates from 0 to 99% of the light speed. That would time going about 7,1 times slower for the people in the ship:

T = T'/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) = T'/sqrt(1-0.99^2/1)
T = T'/0.141... = T'*7.088...

The relativistic kinetic energy equation is:

Ek = m0*c^2/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)-m0*c^2
(source: Alonso-Finn)

The energy needed to accelerate can be calculated trough:

W = ΔEk = Ek(v2)-Ek(v1) = Ek(0.99c)-Ek(0)
W = m0*c^2/sqrt(1-v2^2/c^2)

because the m0*c^2 is the same for both and when v=0, the left of Ek(v1) is 0 as well. Putting all the numbers in:

W = 6,371106541*10^21 J

That's about 1,5*10^15 the amount energy needed to accelerate the spaceship from 0 to 30 m/s, the speed of a car on the highway. It is not however larger than the energy the sun radiates in a second (around 10^24 J/s), what robertphoenix claims.

Now, robertphoenix, you make a few mistakes in your post and, although I don't want to offend you, I think you used newtonian mechanics where relativistic mechanics should be used:
- "But every time you time you double the velocity you have to quadruple the input energy to maintain the new velocity." In a vacu�m, like space, there's virtually no resistance. Therefore there is almost no energy needed to maintain the speed. I don't really see how got to this claim, there is no such law in nature. The amount of energy needed to maintain a velocity depends on mechanic resistance (air, wheels), gravity, electromagnetic forces working on the object.
- "So therefore if the craft is traveling at 100th of the speed of light then multiple the light years by 100. So a 45 light year distance becomes 4,500 years etc." Not in special relavity, where time dilation makes the time go slower for you the higher you speed.

Amantine what are you saying? I was not reffering to the total energy output of our sun. I just was making an comparative comment about the output of a small sun. I believe our sun is like in the middle somewhere of total energy.

Space is NOT a void, while space does not have a dense atmosphere it is filled with matter of all types, mostly "dark matter", dust, gases particles etc. In addition you can not rule out the strong gravitional waves emitted from the planets and the sun within our solar system. To maintain your selected path you have to overcome the gravitational pull of these objects which consumes a lot of energy. Our probes that we sent to Mars etc. Use the slingshot method to their advantage when travelling between planets.

Look up Light distortation by gravity and you will discover that the light that we recieve here on earth from other stars etc has been "bent" around large bodies of mass in and out of our solar system. Thus if the gravitational effects of the planets are capable of bending a simple stream of light being emmited from a star thats even a single light year away. What do you think might happen to a mass, that is over that of a single photon, travelling at lightspeed near a planet ? Would its path be "bent" as well due to the effect of gravity. Then would you not find your self shooting off in a direction other then where you intended to head ?

This is a very well known effect of the behavoir of lightparticles. Why would this not pertain to a mass traveling at lightspeed as theoretically a mass traveling at lightspeed would have no mass.

And I realize that my estimation of the velocity and energy requirement to attain lightspeed might be off.

I think I used lightspeed as something like 144,000 fps but really its 1,440,000,000 fps which is in the neighborhood of 1,085,000,000 MPH Miles Per Hour.

Considering that the Sun is 93,000,000 miles away and light from the sun takes on average of 5 minutes to reach earth then in one minute a ray of light will travel 18,000,000 miles.

So I will agree that my calcuations are a little off but it was to simplfy the example. The reality is that attaining lightspeed with a mass other then that of a photon is outside of the realm of our understanding.