How did Atta's passport actually survive?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: neutronflux

Why would it be bullshlt?
Mainly because comparing any other jet
plane crash in history to planes crashing
into a gigantic enclosed structure and
disintagrating is just more bullshlt.
You can't cover up bullshlt with more
bullshlit. Surely you're intelligent
enough to contemplate the difference and
the dimished odds to the power of infinity?
In regards to a document making it from
within two enclosures and down to the
street facing still more ridiculous odds
from there?

Funny these two guys had time to look at a seat cushion from flight 11
www.pinterest.com...

a reply to: neutronflux

You know what flux? It is my interest in
humility over arrogance that I accept that.
Now swear your alliegence to me. Bend
the knee and embrace me as your king.
And you be warlord over all of ATS.

I have stood inside a home that was wrecked by a tornado, only had 1 wall still standing china cabinet against that wall with china unbroken... sometimes stuff happens for no logical reason.

a reply to: neutronflux

Again, cite the FBI evidence log that lists the condition of the passport?

I have twice, located in the FBI vault chronology list, stating where abouts it was "found" and it was soaked in jet fuel.

Here is a link to pics of the passport, many views with many views of different pages of the passport:
link to page

The jet fuel would dissolve the ink.

There is no visual indication of being soaked in jet fuel. No bent corners, no creases and definitely hasn't been crumbled.

Passports are chemically sensitized, bleaching agents or solvents will activate the color-ant and a color change will become obvious.

And all this over nothing to do with the actual video evidence of the towers collapse

This thread is about the passport. A passport that made it out of total destruction, found immediately in perfect condition while allegedly soaked in jet fuel.

Funny these two guys had time to look at a seat cushion from flight 11 

A seat cusion that was badly damaged and burned....and you talk about context, lol.

a reply to: kyleplatinum

It was a statement made by a witnesses? Please state where it is logged into evidence as soaked with jet fuel?

And if it was soaked with jet fuel, the evidence lab would do what they could to preserve the passport. Is that a false statement.

Why would it dissolve the ink of a passport? I get diesel on my shirts and pants from time to time. The diesel stains the clothes, does not remove the dye. It depends on the composition of the ink for the passport. In fact, in starting fires with newspapers and diesel or Kerosene , I don’t remember the fuel causing the lettering of the newspaper to become unreadable by just soaking the newspaper? Will diesel or kerosene make a dollar bill unreadable by just soaking it fuel?

“Passports are chemically sensitized, bleaching agents or solvents will activate the color-ant and a color change will become obvious.”

I am guessing passports use inks that tend to be not chemically sensitive once cured. Inks that tend to be durable and permanent? Probably an ink that is not easily removed or manipulated for security reasons.


Funny you are no ignoring the liquid damage to the passport you provided? The passport that does have color changes because of liquid damage.

a reply to: kyleplatinum

Out of curiosity, I just soaked a dollar bill in low Oder mineral spirits. Then “cleaned” it with choke cleaner. The dollar bill is still readable. I imagine passports use the same secure ink to prevent tampering.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere
What is the explanation for the exit hole at the Pentagon? What caused the wall to crumble on the other side? Was the plane not smashed when collided with the wall? Is there evidence of a fireball reaching that far?

Part of landing gear made to take the repeated abuse of landing is what made the hole.

The fire ball set the pentagon’s roof on fire, and parts of the pentagon on fire. So, fire could not spread after the initial fireball? I am sure the wreckage didn’t cause any electrical wires to short out, or cause live electric wires to become exposed.

And If I remember right, the ring before the c ring was an open bay on the first floor.

a reply to: neutronflux

And still no answer to my question as to your motives, it's never going to happen is it? You claim to represent the truth but can't admit it yourself, just diversion, evasion and irrelevant claims to avoid the real subject.
Why are you so determined to push your debunking stance ?

A passport is kept on a plane in one of three scenarios:
1) It's carried on the person. Meaning it flew out of the pocket.
2) It's stored in an overhead locker, in a jacket or hand luggage, sometimes both. meaning it flew out of a pocket, a suitcase and a locker.
3) It was left on the seat in a jacket or travel wallet. Meaning It flew out of a pocket.

And then, amidst all the carnage and hell of that day, a passerby, just strolling along spots this passport lying under the burning , destructing tower and thinks it's best they pick it up. They'd have to be walking to notice it, it's not unreasonable to suggest that anyone near the towers was running away as fast as possible. All manner of # is falling around them but no, one citizen decides to stop and poke about in the rubble for a passport. How likely is that ?

a reply to: Jesushere

Like to create context?

I guess you are posting a picture of the outer ring of the pentagon? The entrance hole was about 90 feet wide, and two stories tall before the outer ring collapse. The fire ball ignited fires. The second ring on the ground floor was an open bay. The remains of the jet slid through the open bay into the wall of the third, or c ring.

a reply to: Fermy

Like the picture linked to with the two guys looking at a reported seat cushion from flight 11 in the street?

www.pinterest.com...

You find it hard to believe a person would be interested in a lost passport? If you look at street photos before the towers collapse, there are people standing in the streets among the wreckage from the tower strikes. After the shock of each jet hitting its associated tower, there was a period where people traveled the streets going about their business. Not running, but walking and standing.

What is your motivation for believing in a truth movement that uses false narratives, half truths, items of context, and right out lies?

A truth movement that cannot even follow its original stated guidelines for the WTC 7 Evaluation Projected. Who’s results may never be released.

A movement that pushes flash no bang explosives, and flash no bang explosives caused later ejection.

A movement that bought into and pushed the fraudulent thermite studies.

A truth movement that tried to push the hole in the pentagon’s c ring was flight 77’s entrance hole.

A movement that pushed WTC columns cut during clean up by thermal lance was evidence of thermite.

The argument concerning the pentagon light poles, while ignoring flight 77 also hit an antenna, clipped vegetation, clipped trailers in a construction yard, and a engine clipped a low concrete wall.

The lie the towers fell at the rate of free fall.

The lie the towers fell in their own footprints.

Ignoring before the first tower collapse, there was a short period people used the streets around the towers to go about their business. Pictures that show people walking in the street, standing in the jet wreckage, looking at the wreckage, and standing around.

Until you state what caused the damaged at the pentagon, what brought down the towers, what is there debunked?

It’s not about the official narrative, it’s about the right out fraudulent behavior of the truth movement.

a reply to: Fermy

Another pre 9/11 false narrative. The pentagon, an office building built in the 40’s as fast as possible, was a fort? And a video camera system that used time lapse video to monitor people, entrances, and license plates should have captured a fast flying object from the sky in great detail. Why would you have sky cameras when there is much more efficient radar stations?

a reply to: Fermy

Or the falsehood the pentagon would never allow a passenger jet close to the instillation? When the pentagon is in a major air corridor for passenger jets landings at a near by airport.

a reply to: neutronflux


This is just more smoke screening from you. You refuse to explain your motives here, your presence on these threads indicate nothing more than diversion and obfuscation. You are not sustainable, your narrative is transparent. I feel you'll continue ad infinitum in your efforts to promote the official line and that itself speaks volumes, I have zero confidence in your impartiality and objectiveness.
You consider the truth movement a false narrative? At least that narrative doesn't result in illegal wars unlike the real false narrative which is the one you're pushing along with the state. you have the right to be as gullible as you wish, many of us don't share that blind faith in the governments.
Have a nice day.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Fermy

Because if you let stupidity fester it starts to stink worse than sewage plant.

What has festered for the last 16 years is not so much stupidity, but rather deliberate and criminal obfuscation, government cover-up. Your participation in that effort is a mystery, but I'm sure there is some sort of explanation.

originally posted by: Fermy
a reply to: neutronflux


This is just more smoke screening from you. You refuse to explain your motives here, your presence on these threads indicate nothing more than diversion and obfuscation. You are not sustainable, your narrative is transparent. I feel you'll continue ad infinitum in your efforts to promote the official line and that itself speaks volumes, I have zero confidence in your impartiality and objectiveness.
You consider the truth movement a false narrative? At least that narrative doesn't result in illegal wars unlike the real false narrative which is the one you're pushing along with the state. you have the right to be as gullible as you wish, many of us don't share that blind faith in the governments.
Have a nice day.

First off, please quote from my numerous posts where I totally support the official account. So stop with your false narrative of “efforts to promote the official line.”

Especially when I have listed the blatant false claims of conspiracists.

Stated my motives, sorry you don’t like them.

“It’s not about the official narrative, it’s about the right out fraudulent behavior of the truth movement. Fraudulent behavior that is obvious and well documented.”

Why do you not call out the blantant lies of the truth movement?

What are your motives throwing in with a truth movement with proven credibility issues, false narratives, and populated with con artist and charlatans.

Sorry you cannot wrap your head around the fact I have studied conspiracy theories concerning CD at the WTC, and what caused the structural damage at the pentagon. Compared what the conspiracy theories, debunkers, and the official account provided.

And again, what am I debunking in that you will no offer any theories concerning what brought down the towers, or caused the damage at the pentagon?

What is credible to you?

Richard Gage / 9-11 Truth fizzle no flash bombs?

Dr Wood and WTC Dustification?

Steven Jones and a fraudulent thermite paper not properly peer reviewed. Will not release studies of WTC dust conducted in an inert atmosphere to prove thermite

Do you side with no jet hit the pentagon?

Do you side with no jets at the towers and holograms?

Nuclear bombs at the WTC?

Please list one person you find credible that has what you think is a credible explanation for the collapse of the towers.

Please list one person you find credible that has what you think is a credible explanation for the structural damage at the pentagon?

If you don’t list anything, what is there to debunk?

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Fermy

Because if you let stupidity fester it starts to stink worse than sewage plant.

What has festered for the last 16 years is not so much stupidity, but rather deliberate and criminal obfuscation, government cover-up. Your participation in that effort is a mystery, but I'm sure there is some sort of explanation.

How about you outline again your pet theories concerning nukes at the WTC?

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Thoseaintcontrails

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: kyleplatinum

No, the passport actually has creases and looks like it was crumpled at some point.

So a false argument by you.

One, cite a source it was wet from jet fuel. Crude, but the smell of a fart does not mean a person pooped their pants.

Two, what happens when you throw a piece of paper at a window as opposed to an egg? The egg will break. What indications will the piece of paper have it hit a window?

You are comparing throwing a piece of paper at a window with a passport that went through a plane crash, a really high drop, and debris falling on top of it? The passport would have to be magic to survive in mint condition.

As long as the passport stayed ahead of the flame front, or did not have sufficient contact with the fire ball, how should it look? Like a piece of paper thrown at a window?

For something to burn, it must have oxygen, heat, fuel, and the chemical reaction that is fire. If the passport was in the cockpit, it would have easily survived as the jet passed out the other side of the tower.

So the passport flew through the steel tower while on a persons body and remained in tact while traveling at 550 mph. Got it, makes perfect sense. If fire can bring down steel, surely paper can travel through steel. Its all making sense now.

How do people survive plane crashes as lone survivors?

How does a flight attendant survive a fall from 30000 feet after a bomb goes off in the plane killing everyone else?


So many times in plane crashes things happen that are considered unexplained and miracles.

Passports have survived other crashes.


Its such a troubling thought that Atta's passport could do what other before have done and survive plane crashes in tact?


Read how some survive plane crashes in the link below and then try saying its so out of this world that Atta's passport survived

www.telegraph.co.uk...

a reply to: Thoseaintcontrails

One, the passport was in the front of the jet that passed completely through the tower.

Two, the passport was not the only recognizable items in the street from the jet.

Three, the passport was one of many IDs recovered from the WTC.

Four, paper is pretty much just going to crumple and bounce off steel?

Five, many accounts of documents remaining recognizable after passenger jet crashes. Even jets knocked down by missiles.

malaysia-mh17-crash-site-belongings
unframe.com...

It’s not odd a passport is recognizable after a jet crash. The link provided numerous examples of items that were not singed from MH 17.

There is just as much evidence the passport could have been in a carry on bag that ended up in the street with the other jet wreckage and pilfered vs being planted. Just saying.....