A very strange anomaly with the exit of the 2nd plane...

I agree, it's an oddity. But as mentioned before, tornadoes have thrown blades of grass into concrete. I've seen drinking straws impaled in trees. Speed does funny things to physics.

What you need to do is posit an alternative theory as to what it could be.

Originally posted by Astygia
I agree, it's an oddity. But as mentioned before, tornadoes have thrown blades of grass into concrete. I've seen drinking straws impaled in trees. Speed does funny things to physics.

Apples and oranges...

Wasn't the mystery pod debunked time and time again as a shadow cast by the plane itself along with photos proving it? I know I saw it on other pictures, esp on airliners.net. The light hits the plane just right, and in high res photos you can see it's a shadow, lower the resolution, and a pod appears.

What would the pod be for anyway?

Originally posted by Astygia
I agree, it's an oddity. But as mentioned before, tornadoes have thrown blades of grass into concrete. I've seen drinking straws impaled in trees. Speed does funny things to physics.

Hmmm do you have any proof of drinking straws stuck in a tree? Cause I've researched this and most people say it's a myth including Myth Busters, and I can't find any pics of this. But you say you've seen it? Interesting.

But anyway that plane went through steel columns, no way would it survive intact and then disintegrate into nothing once it excited. Speed or no speed, that doesn't add up.

First and foremost, I'm no metalurgist but I've used welding torches to modify coil springs and shape others piece of metal. I know that long before it glows red that it becomes soft enough to bend by steady hand pressure. I know that standard construction rebar isn't especially stiff. I know this sound contrary to common sense but a metal tube of the same mass as solid round bar is much stronger under compression and has less flex than the solid bar. The combination of heat being applied by the fire caused by the crash and the tons of material above the crash placed enourmous compression force on damaged and weakened structural supports. Since there was no real investigation to find the exact pieces of structural steel that were first struck by the plane to determine the extent of the damage, if not out right destruction of the support steel by the aircraft strike, we'll never know for certain. Remember the engines are made of stronger and denser materials then the structural steel and would have wreaked the most damage during the strike. Like a bullet through a taught window screen.
What I see when I look at the video is tight ball of loose material that forms in front of what is left of the aircraft as it passes throught the building.
I've seen an F-16 crash less than minute after it happened and the only thing that was remotely recognizable was the engine's core shaft. Every thing else was smaller than foot square. I've also seen what remains of missiles and bombs that have detonated which are even smaller than the aircraft crash parts.

Originally posted by WithoutEqual

What would the pod be for anyway?

To clear a path for the plane through the building?

As you could see the whole plane penetrated the wall very, very neatly, like a warm knife through butter...

It looks really strange, maybe that´s the reason for all the hologram-theories so popular now!

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Roger M]

Originally posted by ANOK

Hmmm do you have any proof of drinking straws stuck in a tree? Cause I've researched this and most people say it's a myth including Myth Busters, and I can't find any pics of this. But you say you've seen it? Interesting.

It's not a myth. I live in Oklahoma where I've grown up seeing all kinds of weird things after tornados. In my life I've seen grass, wheat, etc. sticking out of trees after a tornado. But it's a different phenomenon in this case and entirely irrelevant to the discussion. The theory with the *insert whatever small debris you want* in the tree phenomenon is that the tree is actually torqued to the point the fibers open up and allow the entrance of debris. When the torsion on the tree is relaxed, the fibers close around the debris.

But I've also seen an industrial drill with a cast iron body that had a chunk of wood sticking through it. That one applies to the discussion. And I've also seen a car wadded up into a small enough ball it was crammed into about a 2 foot high gap under an overpass...that one applies too. Once you get up about 300 mph, metal's not near what it's cracked up to be.

Originally posted by kozmo

Given the mass, tensile strength of a cylinder, the velocity etc... it's totally feasable that the nosecone would come out the other side.

I agree with most of your comments in the post this was extracted from...except for this statement. I do not believe it totally feasible that the nosecone would even survive the initial impact, let alone make it through the building. I believe what is exiting the opposite side of the building is one of the engines. It's very feasible for one of them to survive semi-sorta-intact, but not the nose cone.

Originally posted by Valhall
It's not a myth. But it's a different phenomenon in this case and entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

Thanx Val, if two of you say you've seen it then I'll believe ya...

At least you have cleared up the comparison claim, I was thinking if it did happen it was more than just the speed of the straw that does it. Speed doesn't change physics like the other poster said.

I guess I should clarify something though. I said "it's not a myth". It's not a myth that small debris such as grass, wheat - stuff like that - can be sticking out of trees after a tornado. But I've never seen anything as big as a drinking straw - that might be the one that is a myth. The things I have witnessed have been small enough that the "torque theory" would apply. So, as far as a plastic drinking straw impaling a tree, or being squished into the fibers of a tree, I'm not sure about that one.

P.S. In fact, I'm willing to bet this is a discombobulated myth. i.e. I'm betting what really happened is that STRAW was found in a tree, and then the story morphed into a "drinking straw" in a tree. I'll bet a 5-spot on that one.


[edit on 9-20-2006 by Valhall]

I actually like your theory much better. After reflecting on this overnight (Sleep always clears judgement) I would have to agree and recant that statement. In fact, I would surmise that the nosecone would probably have inverted itself or simply crushed upon impact up to the point that the cylinder of the fuselage leveled out.

Given the fact that the engine contains titanium and is much more dense than the the fuselage, I would have to agree that the feature exiting the structure is probably the engine. Now, that being said, wasn't one of the engines found a few blocks away from the building?

Isn't stuff like this explained by Newton & Einstein physics. . .

As the speed of an object increases, so does it's kinetic energy?

I think if you figure it out the 767-222 would appear to weigh more than every 767 ever built at 500 mph.

ADD: I too think that the nose was probably damaged, but we just can't see it again because of quality & angle.

Edit to add remark

[edit on 20-9-2006 by 2PacSade]

Originally posted by kozmo
I actually like your theory much better. After reflecting on this overnight (Sleep always clears judgement) I would have to agree and recant that statement. In fact, I would surmise that the nosecone would probably have inverted itself or simply crushed upon impact up to the point that the cylinder of the fuselage leveled out.

Given the fact that the engine contains titanium and is much more dense than the the fuselage, I would have to agree that the feature exiting the structure is probably the engine. Now, that being said, wasn't one of the engines found a few blocks away from the building?

Yes it was. On Murray St.. Here's a pic of it;

I'd say that it's the engine surrounded by a cone of pulverized concrete, glass, office material, and aerosolized fuel. Then the flame front from from the exploding fuel envelops it, and finally we see the "clean" engine exit the fireball and streak down in an arc to the street.



You can see the hole where the engine came out at the NE corner, but there's certainly not enough room there for an intact 767 fuselage to exit.

[edit on 2006-9-20 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by ANOK

Hmmm do you have any proof of drinking straws stuck in a tree? Cause I've researched this and most people say it's a myth including Myth Busters, and I can't find any pics of this. But you say you've seen it? Interesting.

But anyway that plane went through steel columns, no way would it survive intact and then disintegrate into nothing once it excited. Speed or no speed, that doesn't add up.

I guess I was being deceptive, unintentionally. I've seen it on the internet, so I suppose it could be fake (I did a google search and all I could find were myths). Ihave seen many strange thigs result from tornado damage though.

But what I'm getting at is that while fuselage passing through the building is very odd, what's the alternative?

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Astygia]

Originally posted by Astygia
But what I'm getting at is that while fuselage passing through the building is very odd, what's the alternative?

The engine.

Originally posted by kozmo
I would surmise that the nosecone would probably have inverted itself or simply crushed upon impact up to the point that the cylinder of the fuselage leveled out.

Right, that's exactly what I think. I've tried to point this out in the Pentagon/77 argument a couple of times, but people won't listen. In fact, I believe the same thing to be true here as in that case, the plane would have dumped it's contents from front to back as it traveled through the building....except for high energy/rugged parts like the engines that would have kept going.

Originally posted by Roger M
To clear a path for the plane through the building?

As you could see the whole plane penetrated the wall very, very neatly, like a warm knife through butter...

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Roger M]

And why would you want to clear the path through the building?
As for the wall, the wall was glass and steel columns. Steel coluns may tear the aircraft to bits, esp. the wings, but these bits are still flying forward and the glass cannot resist them. So the plane will get through into the building really like a hot knife into the butter.

I guess what I'm asking is, how does this fit into any CT? We've all seen the footage, it wasn't a C130 or something that hit the tower.

Originally posted by Astygia
I guess what I'm asking is, how does this fit into any CT? We've all seen the footage, it wasn't a C130 or something that hit the tower.

And it was neither any ordinary passenger plane, as we all can see from the footage!