It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
In a direct challenge to President Bush, Sen. John Warner, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said his panel would meet Thursday to finalize an alternative to the White House plan to prosecute terror suspects and redefine acts that constitute war crimes. Warner, R-Va., said the administration proposal would lower the standard for the treatment of prisoners, potentially putting U.S. troops at risk should other countries retaliate.
The White House said Warner's proposal would undermine the nation's ability to interrogate prisoners and arranged an extraordinary conference call with reporters in which the nation's top intelligence official criticized Warner's plan.
Originally posted by Ox
I think it's sad that the USA who is trying to spread "peace and democracy and freedom" would find it in their hearts to torture and rape "SUSPECTS".
The bill would keep in law prohibitions on war crimes such as rape and torture that are widely accepted as illegal.
TOP FIVE THINGS SENATOR SPECTER WON’T TELL YOU ABOUT THE CHENEY-SPECTER
BILL TO ALLOW WARRANTLESS SPYING ON AMERICANS
1. The Cheney-Specter bill makes following the protections in the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance Act totally optional. The bill would change the
law so that foreign intelligence surveillance of Americans could be
conducted without following FISA’s requirement of individualized judicial
review of wiretaps. The bill would change the law to allow the president to
ignore FISA’s protections and unilaterally decide which Americans to
wiretap, indefinitely and without any mandatory check to protect individual
rights. The bill also gives President Bush support for his currently
untenable argument that FISA does not apply in wartime by deleting the
provisions saying FISA does apply in wartime. If the bill passes,
presidents will have multiple avenues to circumvent the statute, rendering
moot its protections for Americans’ civil liberties.
2. The Cheney-Specter bill does not require President Bush to get a warrant
for every wiretap of every American currently subject to the NSA’s illegal
warrantless wiretapping. President Bush’s so-called “concession” to submit
a “program” to the FISA court to approve is not required by the bill—it’s
conditional. Only if the bill passes exactly as it was written by the White
House or with additional White House changes has President Bush “promised”
that he will submit one of his secret surveillance programs to the FISA
Court. Nothing in the bill requires him to do so, and the Cheney-Specter
bill has stacked the deck so that the court will hear only the
administration’s arguments and is directed to approve surveillance without
ever knowing the name of every American wiretapped and any facts supporting
such surveillance. Nothing in the bill requires any future president to get
approval of programs of surveillance let alone actual warrants based on
evidence a particular American is conspiring with al Qaeda.
3. The Cheney-Specter bill legalizes President Bush’s illegal spying
although Congress doesn’t really know all that he has directed the NSA to do
regarding people in the US. The bill rewrites FISA to legalize the
surveillance President Bush is currently conducting in defiance of the law.
Yet, the administration has stonewalled congressional attempts to learn the
true scope and nature of all of the illegal surveillance the administration
has secretly authorized. Specter, himself, has called President Bush’s NSA
program illegal “on its face,” yet his bill provides statutory power to do
more than the president has admitted and it expands the NSA’s power to
search Americans’ calls, e-mails, and homes without any warrant under FISA.
4. The Cheney-Specter bill allows law enforcement to enter Americans’ homes
and offices without a warrant. Landlords, custodians and “other people”
would be required to let law enforcement officers to access Americans’
computers and telephones, and no warrant is required, simply government
say-so—under the expanded powers in the bill. This measure flies in the
face of the Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and
5. The Specter bill does not enforce the Fourth Amendment’s requirement that
no warrant shall issue but upon probable cause stating with particularity
the things to be searched and seized. Specter’s bill so broadly redefines
whom can be spied on without a warrant that countless Americans would be
subject to secret NSA surveillance. All international phone calls and
emails would be subject to warrantless surveillance under the bill’s changes
to the law. Plus, emails and other Internet traffic would be subject to
monitoring if the government did not know the physical location of every
recipient of an American’s email. Furthermore, the bill creates a new type
of generalized surveillance power, which, while it requires court approval,
does not require the government to identify each target in the US, the basis
for such surveillance or the method of monitoring each American—wiretaps,
bugging or other devices. Under this exceedingly low threshold, the NSA
could win approval for conducting surveillance of countless Americans while
keeping secret from the courts and Congress who is being monitored and even
whether the spying approved actually helps protect against terrorism.
Take action! Tell your members of Congress to oppose the Specter-Cheney
Bill and other dangerous proposals that threaten your rights.
A Republican-led Senate committee defied Bush on Thursday and approved terror-detainee legislation the president has vowed to block. Republican Sen. John Warner of Virginia, normally a Bush supporter, pushed the measure through his
The president's measure would go further than that bill, allowing classified evidence to be withheld from defendants in terror trials and using coerced testimony. The legislation also would revise the law that interprets the nation's obligations under the Geneva Conventions, the treaty that sets the standard for treatment of war prisoners, so that harsh interrogations of detainees would not be questioned in court.
The election-year debate has pitted Republicans against each other and kept in limbo the legal bounds of a CIA CIA program to detain and interrogate "high-value" terrorism suspects. A successful vote for Bush also would allow the president to begin prosecuting detainees allegedly connected to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
With the two sides unable to reach an accord, McConnell said it was time to "let the Congress work its will.
WASHINGTON - Facing a GOP revolt in the Senate, President Bush urged Congress on Friday to join in backing legislation to spell out strategies for interrogating and trying terror suspects, saying "the enemy wants to attack us again."
"Time is running out," Bush said in a Rose Garden news conference. "Congress needs to act wisely and promptly.
Bush denied that the United States might lose the high ground in the eyes of world opinion, as former Secretary of State
Colin Powell suggested.
"It's unacceptable to think there's any kind of comparison between the behavior of the United States of America and the action of Islamic extremists who kill innocent women and children to achieve an objective," said Bush, growing animated as he spoke.
"If not for this program, our intelligence community believes al Qaida and its allies would have succeeded in launching another attack against the American homeland," he said.
President Bush wants CIA personnel to be able to use aggressive methods to get information from detainees. But several powerful Republican senators are seeking changes to Bush's plan. They say the United States must adhere strictly to international standards and that setting harsher ones could put U.S. troops at risk if they are captured.
Their differences deal with the Geneva Conventions, which set international standards for the treatment of prisoners of war, and with U.S. handling of classified information and coerced testimony.
Bush's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, declined to say publicly what specific techniques, such as waterboarding or prolonged sleep deprivation, would be illegal if Congress did not pass Bush's proposal.
But he said the CIA program would suffer and be shut down if interrogators do not have guidance. He said the White House is working on a compromise that "achieves Senator McCain's requirement that we don't amend or change" the Geneva Conventions.
Originally posted by Ox
No.. the program wouldn't suffer.. The PRESIDENT would suffer.. period.. he would be labeled as a terrorist and a dictator.. That's all.. these people would be set free, and the UN would probably take action against the USA.
Originally posted by Ox
Whoever the next President is, has a hell of a job on their hands to clean up this mess left behind by this moron.. They are going to have to be a two term President just to clean all of this up and try to change the world's image of the USA back to being a great nation, Land of the free, home of the brave..
In his memo last week to CIA personnel, Hayden also said he wants Congress to define in U.S. law terms of the Geneva Conventions that bar "humiliating and degrading treatment" and "outrages upon personal dignity."
A bill favored by McCain and two other influential Republican senators would prevent CIA personnel involved in the detention program from being sued or prosecuted for their actions. The CIA wants the Congress to go one step further and bless its actions.
Early in the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, senior military officers were so concerned about the CIA's practices that they took steps to ensure that military personnel were not in the room during CIA interrogations, said a government official familiar with both military and intelligence operations. The official and others in government and on Capitol Hill spoke recently about the sensitive CIA activities on the condition they not be identified.
But neither side is saying how an agreement can be achieved on whether to allow highly controversial methods by the CIA , such as electric shock, forced nakedness and waterboarding, in which a subject is made to think he is drowning. The Bush administration says those techniques have foiled terror plots. Opponents say they verge on torture.
"The reason we have this program is these kind of hard-core terrorists who are most likely to have information to allow us to protect America are trained in counterinterrogation techniques," Stephen Hadley, President Bush's national security adviser, said Sunday.
"It was only when they went into this CIA program we were able to get information," he said. "This is not torture. This is not a program out of control. This is a program that is conducted pursuant to law."