I think its time for America to flex its muscles

No, this one-arm-behind our back war in Iraq is not flexing our muscles.

This is in reference to bin Laden. We know he's hiding in Pakistan, but Pakistan won't allow us to search for him.

Compounding on this issue is the fact Pakistan is half-assing it. I don't care what they've done to capture the other members of Al Qaeda. The US needs to tell Pakistan that if they don't begin a much stronger effort to find bin Laden, we will send (at the very least) special forces into areas we think he may be, regardless of if they want us there or not.

Their lack of searching for bin Laden is still harboring terrorists, even if they arrest others.

Getting rid of bin Laden would be the biggest blow we could deal to Al Qaeda, just as the terrorists ultimate victory would be the assassination of our President.

If we go into Pakistan with special forces or with a small regular force, what will they do? Publically condemn us?

Will terrorists try to attack us? Oh wait...

Will the middle east hate us? Oh wait...

Will Pakistan go to war with us? No.

Will we be sanctioned? No.

We will be verbally reprimanded, bitched about for a couple years, and then the breach will be forgotten about.

Maybe I'm missing something, but we're being all too soft on these terrorists. We need to start playing rough.

How about we leave our special forces out of it, because if they get caught they can not be disavowed. On the flip side if we send in say, clandestine services or some other non official who won't directly link themseves with US activities.

We need to end in the mercs or shadow commandos. Maybe even go in like how Loas was run along side Nam. Who is to say we don't have a shadow war going on.

Do you honestly believe that capturing Bin Laden will have any positive result. If its to calm US citizens into a false sense of hope then the answer is yes. There is a list probably a mile long of future Bin Ladens just waiting to follow in his footsteps. Your idea is weak and naive sorry.

brill

Originally posted by brill
Do you honestly believe that capturing Bin Laden will have any positive result. If its to calm US citizens into a false sense of hope then the answer is yes. There is a list probably a mile long of future Bin Ladens just waiting to follow in his footsteps. Your idea is weak and naive sorry.

Do tell, what your solution to this problem is then. Do nothing, Do something? Just what do you think should be done to curtail radical Islam's activities towards the West and even moderate Muslim's? It's not like they will just start planting flowers and live in peace and harmony with everyone.

Capturing bin Laden would be the equivelant of the terrorists assassinating Bush. Sure theres a chain of command, but would definitely be a huge blow.

Originally posted by pavil

Do tell, what your solution to this problem is then. Do nothing, Do something? Just what do you think should be done to curtail radical Islam's activities towards the West and even moderate Muslim's? It's not like they will just start planting flowers and live in peace and harmony with everyone.

Well for one thing if america started to leave the middle east alone and stopping meddling its nose in other countries business. America just seems to be that proverbial elephant in the porcellan house breaking things.

Its just like the war on drugs: bust 1 dealer/kartell in its place come 2 dealers/kartells, the same applys for terrorists.

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus

Originally posted by pavil

Do tell, what your solution to this problem is then. Do nothing, Do something? Just what do you think should be done to curtail radical Islam's activities towards the West and even moderate Muslim's? It's not like they will just start planting flowers and live in peace and harmony with everyone.

Well for one thing if america started to leave the middle east alone and stopping meddling its nose in other countries business. America just seems to be that proverbial elephant in the porcellan house breaking things.

Its just like the war on drugs: bust 1 dealer/kartell in its place come 2 dealers/kartells, the same applys for terrorists.

Except as soon as we leave these places, they beg for us to come back.

Oh, and if we have to leave, we should take all the money we give away with us. Watch them come crawling back.

Hypocrites.

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
Well for one thing if america started to leave the middle east alone and stopping meddling its nose in other countries business. America just seems to be that proverbial elephant in the porcellan house breaking things.

Were we meddling in Afghanistan and Iraq before 9/11?

Did that curtail the attack before?

do you see the failing in your logic?

We do need to start stepping this up, personally I believe bush is dragging his feet for benefit of himself and his political allies.

Destroying the primary target would re-unite america and it's citizens would call an end to the War on Terror.

has anyone else considered the war from a economic point of view?

how would the large influx of soldiers returning to the US effect our economy?

War is both good and big business...... How would those dependant on government contracts that are a direct result of the war be effected?

I personally believe that the reason we are having this war, besides the obvious goals of eliminating terrorists is to ease the recession.

Were we meddling in Afghanistan and Iraq before 9/11? Yes.

USA was there funding Al-Qaeda, funding Ben Laden, funding Talibans, funding Saudi Arabia dictatorship, funding Saddam, funding dictatorship in Iran prior 79, funding dictatorship in a hell lot of countries. That's why the world hate USA, because USA put his nose EVERYWHERE, no matter if they are dictators or murderers. They simply don't care.

Anyway, the neo-cons CAN'T kill Osama, this would mean the end of the war on terror for the average american joe, and they don't want this, they want to do wars until they are tired.

[edit on 24-8-2006 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Cutwolf
Capturing bin Laden would be the equivelant of the terrorists assassinating Bush. Sure theres a chain of command, but would definitely be a huge blow.

Hmmmmm i hate to tell you this but Bin Laden died some time ago. But the CIA dont wanna destroy a great lie.

I think its time for America to flex its muscles

Ooh here we go again America thinking it can tell the rest of the world what to do, And like the rest of the world is going to Listen... Do not think so..

The US needs to tell Pakistan that if they don't begin a much stronger effort to find bin Laden, we will send (at the very least) special forces into areas we think he may be, regardless of if they want us there or not.

Yeah I can just see pakistan allowing US Secret Forces, to set foot on their soil to search for Bin Laden. What planet are you living on Planet limbo??? Pakistan will never agree to allowing any other special forces in their country. Apart from their own forces.

Oh and if you think threatnen them with force is going to scare them, Think again!! There are a Nuclear Power Just as much as the USA.

Will terrorists try to attack us? Oh wait...

Invade another Sovergn Nation (because that is basically what it is), then you will enrage Muslims loyal to Bin Ladin, increasing the risks of attacks again the USA.

Will the middle east hate us? Oh wait...

Most of them in the Middle East hate the USA anyways so only thing that will change is that they will hate ya more.

Will Pakistan go to war with us? No

Question should be, Is America prepared tog o to war with Pakistan if they refuse to allow US Special Forces to set foot on their Soil???

Will we be sanctioned? No.

Now this one makes me laugh. When has the USA ever conformed with Iinternational Law?? The US has broken nearly every rule in the book. So no you would not be sanctioned because you would just ignore everyone else. Like yous always do.

Maybe I'm missing something, but we're being all too soft on these terrorists. We need to start playing rough.

Ooh right I suppose the Invasion of Iraq, was just being soft, or invading aphganistan was just being soft.. Which I may add none of the conflicts in both Regions have been resolved as of yet. The US are bogged down in both countries. So how are you going to get the manpower to Go to War with Pakistan??

The more countries the US invadeds, attacks, threatens. This is only going to increase the hatred Others have for the US.

Originally posted by Vitchilo


USA was there funding Al-Qaeda, funding Ben Laden, funding Talibans, funding Saudi Arabia dictatorship, funding Saddam, funding dictatorship in Iran prior 79, funding dictatorship in a hell lot of countries. That's why the world hate USA, because USA put his nose EVERYWHERE, no matter if they are dictators or murderers. They simply don't care.

[edit on 24-8-2006 by Vitchilo]

WRONG - the US funded the mujahadeen which later formed the Taliban.

at the time the US was funding the Mujahadeen against the Soviets there was no Taliban.

So what you are implying is a half truth deceptive lie...one I hear repeated many times on these boards who are ignorant of this fact.

You're also not aware that the Talibans went to the White House in 97 to talk about the oil pipeline in Afghanistan and about Ben Laden... Did they arrested them? No.

[edit on 25-8-2006 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
You're also not aware that the Talibans went to the White House in 97 to talk about the oil pipeline in Afghanistan and about Ben Laden... Did they arrested them? No.

I think they went to Texas when Bush was Governer. I dunno if they went to meet Clinton in D.C..


Pie

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[edit on 25/8/2006 by Mirthful Me]

We've been "flexing our muscles" for five years now.
So far all we've accomplished is to greatly improve the strategic situation of Iran.

Methinks "getting tough" isn't working... maybe "getting smart" would be a better idea.

Originally posted by xmotex
Methinks "getting tough" isn't working... maybe "getting smart" would be a better idea.

Are you sure isn't working? It depends on what's you're plan. If you're plan is to create chaos, it's working. And what's the neo-con philosophy? From chaos, order will come.

So yes, their plan is working. They create chaos. They think it will bring order. New World Order. ( )

Their plan to wage war, making money, killing ``enemies of globalists``, killing enemies of the US dollars supremacy, Iran, Iraq, China, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba and Syria.

Israël isn't there for nothing, it's there to create chaos aka the neo-con philosophy.

[edit on 25-8-2006 by Vitchilo]

The solution to this middle east mess is rather simple actually. In the 70's we had a huge oil crisis -- rationing, gas lines, doubling in price --- because of Iran. That was our wake-up call. The proverbial writing-on-the-wall. We had 30+ years to develop technologies and alternatives to minimize our dependence on middle east oil. Just cutting our foreign imports by 1/3 would have marginalized the middle east for us. Beyond their oil do we really give a flying fig about the M.E.?

But for those 30yrs our government... the people WE elect... put oil company profits as well as their own before the strategic security of the United States. Imagine what the state of our country would be if we HAD properly invested those 30yrs. We wouldn't be in the M.E. There would be no Iraq wars I & II, no war in Afghanastan. We would have stable energy prices, billions not spent on wars and the subsequent rebuilding and countless Americans would still be alive and unmaimed. Pipedream? Absolutely not. Our involvement in the M.E. has absolutely NOTHING to do with terrorism. If terrorism was our true motivator we'd be in North Korea and Africa. And the terrosists certainly could be bitching about the US if we weren't in their countries. It's oil. It has always been about oil.

What is easier to change? An Idea or a Belief? That is what we are facing.

In Africa maybe but not in North Korea for sure. The real problem is that alternatives solutions exists but corporations own them, we should elect a government that take them back no matter what they say and give it to the people.

I think cutwolf hit the nail on the head, good post (and question)

Why won't the Paki's let us at least inspect these hills and caves? If he's not there, what's the problem? If Canada thought that their #1 most wanted terrorist was hiding in a cave in the California mountains, not only would we let them come, we'd roll out the red carpet and send in some rangers.

These people are obviously not sympathetic with the US and the real war on terror.
I say send in the gunships low and fast out of the rising sun...and crank up the wagner!

The visual

couldn't help myself!