Was The Asteroid Belt a planet???

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posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 06:05 AM
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I strongly feel that the Asteroid Belt was a planet having a very advanced civilization which blew up due to some experiment which went awry.

Check out Jupiter's 'Red Spot'. One of the pieces of this planet probably hit Jupiter here creating some sort of a weather vortex.

The Atlanteans could have been the last remnants of this civilisation which had migrated to Earth thousands of years before this catastrophe.

Now some will say, prove it. I can't, though I wish I could. But can someone prove that the universe started with the Big Bang? So all is theory and conjecture. We don't even know how the moon got here!

Darn. Why are there so many unanswered questions even in the 21st century?


[edit on 18-8-2006 by mikesingh]




posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 06:34 AM
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The Asteroid Belt is made up of primoridal objects left over from the formation of the Solar System that never coalesced into a planet. I think that Jupiters gravity would also pull apart any planetary bodies that started to form.

It would take some awesome amount of power to destroy a planet. A comet collision would leave a crater, but would not release enough energy to destroy the planet.

I dont even think there is enough matter in the belt to produce a planet.



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 07:00 AM
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I dont even think there is enough matter in the belt to produce a planet.

Purely speculation on my part, but if a planet was hit hard enough by a large enough object to destroy it why would all the pieces have to remain here? Doesn't it stand to reason that quite a bit of the planet would go off in a different direction?



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by Mindwalker

I dont even think there is enough matter in the belt to produce a planet.



It would appear that is correct...


www.solstation.com...
It has been estimated that the total mass of the Main Asteroid Belt may total less than 1/1000th of the mass of the Earth. Indeed, if all asteroids down to the size of meter- or yard-sized boulders or less were combined together, the resulting object would measure less than 1,300 to 1,500 km (810 to 930 miles) across, which is less than one third to one half the diameter of the Earth's Moon.


Whether these objects in the asteroid belt are the result of planetary collisions or were objects 'captured' into an orbit is still a guess.



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 07:18 AM
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Hey what about the pieces that got ejected when the thing went boom. Or would they ALL come back to a natural orbit. Even if there is not enough material there now, how in the hell do they know how much was possibly there to begin with, if there was an object there in the first place.

Just some common sense.

As far as I know they cant predict gravity in the past. Actually as far as I know, anything is possible.

Great idea about the planet...would make an awsome movie.



[edit on 18-8-2006 by R3KR]



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by Beer_Guy


Purely speculation on my part, but if a planet was hit hard enough by a large enough object to destroy it why would all the pieces have to remain here? Doesn't it stand to reason that quite a bit of the planet would go off in a different direction?


Well I am no expert, and as you I am speculating. I think that an impact of such a magnitude would blow off chunks of a planet, but not destroy it. And yes, bits of the debris would go off in differant directions. But I still think a major part of the planet would survive and be left intact. And on top of all that I still think Jupiters gravitational pull is too powerful for a planetary body to form.



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 07:48 AM
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You can try to see what would happen with the Earth using the Earth Impact Effects Program

After some experiments I found that it is very difficult to destroy a planet of the size of the Earth.



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
You can try to see what would happen with the Earth using the Earth Impact Effects Program

After some experiments I found that it is very difficult to destroy a planet of the size of the Earth.


Interesting website, Artmap.

I tried to use an object the size of a small moon, colliding with Earth and got some very interesting details. the earth is not destroyed, but almost half is melted. Even though I am 10,000 kilometers away, I'm a dead duck. And most of all, very little material is ejected away from the planet even though the speed at which the object impacts its glancing blow is higher than any object in the solar system.

This is a great program to use in conjunction with the information that NEO provides.


here's what comes up...


www.lpl.arizona.edu...

Your Inputs:
Distance from Impact: 10000.00 km = 6210.00 miles
Projectile Diameter: 1700000.00 m = 5576000.00 ft = 1055.70 miles
Projectile Density: 1500 kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 240.00 km/s = 149.04 miles/s (Your chosen velocity is higher than the maximum for an object orbiting the sun)
Impact Angle: 30 degrees
Target Density: 1000 kg/m3
Target Type: Ice
Energy:
Energy before atmospheric entry: 1.11 x 1032 Joules = 2.65 x 1016 MegaTons TNT
The average interval between impacts of this size is longer than the Earth's age.
Such impacts could only occur during the accumulation of the Earth, between 4.5 and 4 billion years ago.
Major Global Changes:
The Earth is strongly disturbed by the impact, but loses little mass.
44.96 percent of the Earth is melted
The impact does not make a noticeable change in the Earth's rotation period or the tilt of its axis.
The impact does not shift the Earth's orbit noticeably.
Crater Dimensions:
What does this mean?



Transient Crater Diameter: 10800 km = 6690 miles
Transient Crater Depth: 3810 km = 2370 miles


Final Crater Diameter: 36200 km = 22500 miles
Final Crater Depth: 6.97 km = 4.33 miles
The final crater is replaced by a large, circular melt province.
At this impact velocity ( < 12 km/s), little shock melting of the target occurs.
Melt volume = 3.02 times the crater volume
At this size, the crater forms in its own melt pool.
Thermal Radiation:
What does this mean?



Time for maximum radiation: 401 seconds after impact


Your position is inside the fireball.
The fireball appears 2040 times larger than the sun
Thermal Exposure: 4.86 x 1014 Joules/m2
Duration of Irradiation: 1.25e+06 seconds
Radiant flux (relative to the sun): 389000


Effects of Thermal Radiation:


Clothing ignites

Much of the body suffers third degree burns

Newspaper ignites

Plywood flames

Deciduous trees ignite

Grass ignites



Seismic Effects:
What does this mean?


The major seismic shaking will arrive at approximately 2000 seconds.
Richter Scale Magnitude: 15.6 (This is greater than any earthquake in recorded history)
Mercalli Scale Intensity at a distance of 10000 km:


X. Most masonry and frame structures destroyed with their foundations. Some well-built wooden structures and bridges destroyed. Serious damage to dams, dikes, embankments. Large landslides. Water thrown on banks of canals, rivers, lakes, etc. Sand and mud shifted horizontally on beaches and flat land. Rails bent slightly.

XI. As X. Rails bent greatly. Underground pipelines completely out of service.


Ejecta:
What does this mean?



Little rocky ejecta reaches this site; fallout is dominated by condensed vapor from the projectile.


Air Blast:
What does this mean?


The air blast will arrive at approximately 30300 seconds.
Peak Overpressure: 1.61e+09 Pa = 16100 bars = 228000 psi
Max wind velocity: 32300 m/s = 72200 mph
Sound Intensity: 184 dB (Dangerously Loud)
Damage Description:


Multistory wall-bearing buildings will collapse.

Wood frame buildings will almost completely collapse.

Multistory steel-framed office-type buildings will suffer extreme frame distortion, incipient collapse.

Highway truss bridges will collapse.

Highway girder bridges will collapse.

Glass windows will shatter.

Cars and trucks will be largely displaced and grossly distorted and will require rebuilding before use.

Up to 90 percent of trees blown down; remainder stripped of branches and leaves.




posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by masqua
Whether these objects in the asteroid belt are the result of planetary collisions or were objects 'captured' into an orbit is still a guess.

Current thinking is that it's simply rubble left over from the formation of the solar system. There's actually a LOT of this rubble around; supposedly the Oort cloud (from which comets come) is more rubble, as well as the Kuyper belt (where the Plutons (things-that-are-Pluto-sized) such as Sedna and Xena are found.)

Solar system formation isn't as neat as we'd think. All sorts of junk gets left over.



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 08:57 AM
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If the idiotic theory of planet formation were in fact "a law" there would be no debris floating around. It is more likely the debris is a destroyed planet. Possibly asteroid, comet, or a major war. It is arrogant and unlikely "man" is the smartest, oldest form of life in the universe. It is far more likely man was created by "God" and there is in fact a great war in heaven. The evil third of the angels now on earth as a last refuge................

[edit on 18-8-2006 by thermopolis]



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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There is hardly enough mass in the asteroid belt to be the remains of a moon, let alone a planet. It would also take an explosion of an extreme magnitude to completely blast a planet to smithereens, and even so the debris would fly in different directions but wouldn't escape the solar system.

What you also have to remember is other asteroids may impact those in the Belt and add to it, which could mean it was never even close enough to being a planet.

In order for a planet like Earth to become an asteroid belt.....


Your Inputs:
Distance from Impact: 161.00 km = 99.98 miles
Projectile Diameter: 9656040.00 m = 31671811.20 ft = 5996.40 miles
Projectile Density: 8000 kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 72.00 km/s = 44.71 miles/s
Impact Angle: 45 degrees
Target Density: 2750 kg/m3
Target Type: Crystalline Rock
Energy:
Energy before atmospheric entry: 9.78 x 1033 Joules = 2.34 x 1018 MegaTons TNT
The average interval between impacts of this size is longer than the Earth's age.
Such impacts could only occur during the accumulation of the Earth, between 4.5 and 4 billion years ago.
Major Global Changes:
The Earth is completely disrupted by the impact and its debris forms a new asteroid belt orbiting the sun between Venus and Mars.


[edit on 18/8/06 by JackofBlades]



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 09:50 PM
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There are a number of arguments for and against.
OK, my questions on the theories put forth in some of the posts are:

>

The Asteroid Belt is made up of primordial objects left over from the formation of the Solar System that never coalesced into a planet.

Then why is this belt only between Mars and Jupiter? Why are there no similar configurations in the Solar System? Primordial objects must have been all over the place, which should have formed more asteroid belts with varying densities at the right distance from the sun.

>

A comet collision would leave a crater, but would not release enough energy to destroy the planet.

What do we know about the size of collision or the energy released due to an indigenous event millions or a billion years ago?

>

I don’t even think there is enough matter in the belt to produce a planet.

It is possible that much of the matter has drifted away or ejected at great velocity after the event, escaping the gravitational pull of the sun.

>

The gravity of Jupiter did not allow the planetoids to coalesce into a planet

If that was so then Jupiter’s gravity should have captured all the asteroids into its own orbit.

Edited to reduce bolding




[edit on 19-8-2006 by masqua]



posted on Aug, 18 2006 @ 10:46 PM
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Well I am no expert, and as you I am speculating. I think that an impact of such a magnitude would blow off chunks of a planet, but not destroy it. And yes, bits of the debris would go off in differant directions. But I still think a major part of the planet would survive and be left intact.

You and I both have no clue how big or how fast the projectile was if indeed it actually happened. Therefore you and I both have no idea of the magnitude of the resulting interaction, if indeed it actually happened.
True, or not?



posted on Aug, 19 2006 @ 05:01 AM
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People argue that there's not enough debris to make up an entire planet, but why does it have to be? The debris could be the "smaller" fragments: The larger has since smashed into planets and been absorbed (it is speculated that the Moon is the result of a planetary collision with Earth, the Moon itself was thrown clear while the rest just merged).



posted on Aug, 19 2006 @ 07:00 AM
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Objects that were too far away from a developing sun to form a rock planet and not far away enough to form a gas giant.

Rock planets are considerably more dense than gas giants but they take much more extreme conditions to form so compact. Thats why the gass giants are so far away from the sun. If jupiter had been closer to the sun when it formed it would more than likely look alot different than what it does today.



posted on Aug, 19 2006 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh
Then why is this belt only between Mars and Jupiter? Why are there no similar configurations in the Solar System? Primordial objects must have been all over the place, which should have formed more asteroid belts with varying densities at the right distance from the sun.


Have you heard of the Titius-Bode law?



posted on Aug, 19 2006 @ 07:49 AM
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It's often assumed that the asteroid belt is a narrow ring of debris. It's actually about 112,000,000 miles wide. And unlike in TV shows, you could fly for hours through the belt without ever coming across an asteroid bigger than your hand.

So how do you break up a planet a few thousand miles wide in such a way it forms a disparate debris ring that big?



posted on Aug, 19 2006 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Essan
So how do you break up a planet a few thousand miles wide in such a way it forms a disparate debris ring that big?


They were never planets to begin with.

Their shape proves one thing their gravity was never big enough to form any sort of globular oject. No astriod has ever shown to be spericle.



posted on Aug, 19 2006 @ 08:53 AM
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Also, other things gravity has been working on the objects in the asteroid belt for billions of years. So you can take asteroids and fling them away, toward earth and basically eliminate mass so we never saw it. This is celesital mechanics, things take a LOOOONG time.



posted on Aug, 19 2006 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by Sonata

Their shape proves one thing their gravity was never big enough to form any sort of globular oject. No astriod has ever shown to be spericle.



Actually, the largest asteroid, Ceres - which looks set to be re-designated as a planet (!) - is spherical.

Of course, once Ceres becomes a planet then the answer to the question is simple: was the asteroid belt once a planet? No, the planet is still there






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