Questioning Koizumi's shrine visits, page 2

posted on Aug, 21 2006 @ 11:20 AM

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Originally posted by k4rupt

The war is long since been over, and the dead are long since turned to dust. Seriously, people. China and Korea need to grow the heck up and get on with living. Everybody else seems to have moved on. Japan is about as completely different a place today as you could get compared to the Japan of 1940.

I believe that China and Korea demonstrate a real lack of maturity in letting little things like this get under their skin. Grow up! Stop acting so immature, with your tantrums and so forth! And while your at it, mind your own damn business!

Wow you are seriously UNBELIEVABLE.

You have NO IDEA what the Japanese did to the Chinese and Korean. There actions were beyond human. You call what the Japanese did to their neighbors "little things?"

There is a REASON why China and Korea are the way they are in discussing this issue... and you OBVIOUSLY don't know jack # about it. YOU DONT KNOW #ING JACK # AND YOU CALL THEM IMMATURE? You are seirously #ing stupid. GO READ up what happened during WWII.

I assure you, the Chinese and Koreans are ANYTHING but immature in this issue.

I am perfectly well aware of the atrocities and aggression that Japan committed during WWII. And, I never used the term "little things" in the body of my post, so don't quote me using words I never wrote.

You overuse of profanity and caps (irregardless of the Terms of Use for ATS) clearly and perfectly demonstrate that you are a fine example of the irrational, immature, grudge-holding behavior that China and Korea also demonstrate.

If you cannot add to a discussion without cursing, resorting to personal insults, or even adding a point or opinion, then why don't you limit your on-line participation to "myspace.com", or something else more your speed.....

The fact of the matter is that those acts of barbarism occurred between 60-70 years ago, and almost all the participants, on both sides, are long since dead. The people of Japan, incliuding the Prime Minister, are free to worship as they see fit. I find it both galling and hilarious that a Godless communist society like Red China has the nerve to criticize Japan for they way in whip they worship. China needs to look at itself in the mirror, and stop looking outside its own borders for problems. Korea could also stand to do the same, since they apparently would prefer to keep their head in the sand regarding the madman due north of their position.

Japan has paid the price for their aggressions. They have also learned and grown from those events. I can't help but wonder how much of the "outrage" being voiced by China and Korea is rooted in nationalism, jealousry, and bigotry.....and not in a lingering sence of injustice from a war that was fought 1/2 a century ago.

chao

posted on Aug, 21 2006 @ 12:57 PM

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Originally posted by Pyros

Originally posted by k4rupt

The war is long since been over, and the dead are long since turned to dust. Seriously, people. China and Korea need to grow the heck up and get on with living. Everybody else seems to have moved on. Japan is about as completely different a place today as you could get compared to the Japan of 1940.

I believe that China and Korea demonstrate a real lack of maturity in letting little things like this get under their skin. Grow up! Stop acting so immature, with your tantrums and so forth! And while your at it, mind your own damn business!

Wow you are seriously UNBELIEVABLE.

You have NO IDEA what the Japanese did to the Chinese and Korean. There actions were beyond human. You call what the Japanese did to their neighbors "little things?"

There is a REASON why China and Korea are the way they are in discussing this issue... and you OBVIOUSLY don't know jack # about it. YOU DONT KNOW #ING JACK # AND YOU CALL THEM IMMATURE? You are seirously #ing stupid. GO READ up what happened during WWII.

I assure you, the Chinese and Koreans are ANYTHING but immature in this issue.

I am perfectly well aware of the atrocities and aggression that Japan committed during WWII. And, I never used the term "little things" in the body of my post, so don't quote me using words I never wrote.

You overuse of profanity and caps (irregardless of the Terms of Use for ATS) clearly and perfectly demonstrate that you are a fine example of the irrational, immature, grudge-holding behavior that China and Korea also demonstrate.

If you cannot add to a discussion without cursing, resorting to personal insults, or even adding a point or opinion, then why don't you limit your on-line participation to "myspace.com", or something else more your speed.....

The fact of the matter is that those acts of barbarism occurred between 60-70 years ago, and almost all the participants, on both sides, are long since dead. The people of Japan, incliuding the Prime Minister, are free to worship as they see fit. I find it both galling and hilarious that a Godless communist society like Red China has the nerve to criticize Japan for they way in whip they worship. China needs to look at itself in the mirror, and stop looking outside its own borders for problems. Korea could also stand to do the same, since they apparently would prefer to keep their head in the sand regarding the madman due north of their position.

Japan has paid the price for their aggressions. They have also learned and grown from those events. I can't help but wonder how much of the "outrage" being voiced by China and Korea is rooted in nationalism, jealousry, and bigotry.....and not in a lingering sence of injustice from a war that was fought 1/2 a century ago.

Yes,it is easy for you to forget/pardon,but your congressman obviously doesn't as generous as you.So,you'd better to criticize your lawmakers first.

www.atimes.com...
Congressman Henry Hyde had written House Speaker Dennis Hastert asking that Koizumi reassure Congress that he would not pay another visit to the Yasukuni Shrine any time soon after he addressed the US lawmaking body. The next normal time for such a visit would be August 15, the anniversary of Japan's surrender. Koizumi is expected to pay his respects there once again before leaving office in September.

In his letter, Hyde said he welcomed Koizumi speaking to Congress, but added that making the speech and then visiting the Yasukuni Shrine so soon thereafter would be "an affront to the generation that remembers Pearl Harbor and dishonor the place where president Roosevelt made his 'Day of Infamy' speech".

k4rupt

posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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Japan has paid the price for their aggressions. They have also learned and grown from those events.

Paid the price? How CAN THEY EVER pay the price that the East Asians suffered? Learned and grown from these events? HOW? WHILE THE PRIME MINISTER VISITS A SHRINE THAT HONORS THE WAR CRIMINALS? HOW THE LAWMAKERS WHITEWASH WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED?

Tell me you idiot, how could Japan EVER pay the price for what they did.

I will even refrain from using numbers and statistics of the horror they committed... for any amount of numbers and statistics will only cheapen what actually happened.

I can't help but wonder how much of the "outrage" being voiced by China and Korea is rooted in nationalism, jealousry, and bigotry.....and not in a lingering sence of injustice from a war that was fought 1/2 a century ago.

Are you goddamn kidding me?

You are seriously.... "nationalism, jealousy, and bigotry." WOW... HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT that there are MILLIONS of FAMILIES ruined, stories of people with oil shoved down their throats till they died, "scientific tests" by putting pressure on people's heads until it exploded, the beheadings of little children, SURVIVORS of the torture and rape by the Japanese? I HARDLY think this outrage in East Asia is because of nationalism and jealousy.

You seriously don't think the outrage is caused by a sense of injustice? Tell me SIR, what justice has EVER been served to the MILLIONS of innocent women and children the Japanese raped, tortured, and executed for no other reason than to "test how many people their bullets can go through."

RetinoidReceptor

posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 02:06 PM
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I don't think Japan should have done this. As the atrocities Japan has done is equal to the Holocaust. What if Merkel went to a shrine honoring the German dead, Nazis included? TOTAL outrage. The Chinese and Koreans have a right to be angry.

On the other note, I do agree, that a lot of Chinese and Koreans hate this Japanese generation way too much for what the WW2 soldiers did. Which is not right.

I had a Chinese friend who said Chinese people L*O*V*E*D America, because they nuked Japan. Weird.

Strangerous

posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 07:03 AM
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I think it's an indication that Japan has not , and still refuses to, face up to what its troops did - it's not just the east asians it's what they did to allied POW's too.

Japanese tourists visit the bridge on the River Kwai as if it's Disneyland, Pearl Harbor was re-cut to avoid any 'embarassment' etc etc.

If Japan is a modern, civilised nation they should follow Germany's example - apologise unreservedly and stop celebrating the lives of cruel inhuman war criminals.

Darkmind

posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 07:12 AM
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It is still a very valid point that Japan has yet to face up to the truth about its behaviour in WWII. Germany has come to terms with its Nazi period, but Japan has never been able to do the same for the same time period.
Persistant attempts by right-wing Japanese historians to belittle the Nanjing Massacre, where hundreds of thousands of Chinese citizens were slaughtered by an out of control Japanese army are still occurring now. And the barbaric treatment of Allied POW's has never been forgotten and should not be forgotten.

cmdrkeenkid

posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by Strangerous
If Japan is a modern, civilised nation they should follow Germany's example - apologise unreservedly and stop celebrating the lives of cruel inhuman war criminals.

Originally posted by Darkmind
Germany has come to terms with its Nazi period, but Japan has never been able to do the same for the same time period.

Don't you mean pretend it never happened and try and wipe it from the history books? I didn't know that that counted as "coming to terms" about it...

Strangerous

posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 10:02 AM
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I'm sorry you're suggesting Germany denies its wrong-doings in WW2????

Have you ever been to Germany?

You seem to be speaking from a position of ignorance

Pyros

posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by k4rupt
You seriously don't think the outrage is caused by a sense of injustice? Tell me SIR, what justice has EVER been served to the MILLIONS of innocent women and children the Japanese raped, tortured, and executed for no other reason than to "test how many people their bullets can go through."

If you think that wars are about "justice", then you are a bigger fool then you lead me to believe.

The tenor of your posts incline me to believe that you are more interested in revenge than justice. Such is the privilege of the victors. However, being an enlighted society, the Allies decided that revenge against the Japanese (and German) people was not in our best interests. I wise decision, I think. I wonder what Eastern Asia would be like today had we turned the administration of post-war Japan over to the Communist Chinese.........not a pretty picture, I'm willing to bet.

No one is minimizing the nature of Japanese atrocities or guilt. If the Japanese people themselves choose to ignore a very unpleasant and painful part of their own past, well, that is their choice. They are a sovereign nation and a responsible society, able to make their own way in the world. You may not like it, but thats the way it is. People on all sides suffered - some out of proportion to others. The US lost about 100K servicemen in the Pacific theater, yet we managed to kill about 550K Japanese civilians. Were those deaths justified? Were they enough? Too little? Does it matter? Are their deaths acceptable because Japan started the war, or are their deaths just as tragic as the Chinese slaughtered by the Imperial Army?

The conclusion you should be drawing right about now is that.......in war, there is death and destruction on all sides.....as is there varying degrees of guilt and responsibility. War is rarely about justice, or making things right. War is an ultimate evil, and the circle of hatred and revenge will only feed this evil.

Japan cannot and will not compensate China for their wrongdoings during WWII. At the conclusion of the war they were smashed and had nothing to offer, scant some miserable island territories confiscated by some of the victors. Japan has repeatedly apologized to its former enemies. Most have accepted, and moved on, even if they didn't fully feel like justice was served. Now that Japan is prosperous, China and Korea are indignant. Imagine that.

k4rupt

posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 09:07 PM
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The conclusion you should be drawing right about now is that.......in war, there is death and destruction on all sides.....as is there varying degrees of guilt and responsibility. War is rarely about justice, or making things right. War is an ultimate evil, and the circle of hatred and revenge will only feed this evil.

Of course, this is most definately agreeable. HOWEVER, the crimes the Japanese COMMITTED during this war is unspeakable. War does not justify the actions they took. Beheading babies? Lining up civilians and shooting them just to see how many people their bullets can penetrate? Flushing oil down the throats of old women? NOTHING, NO WAR, CAN EVER be a reason for those actions. Sure war = destruction, but in this case, quick destruction would of been a godsend to those tortured victims.

Japan cannot and will not compensate China for their wrongdoings during WWII. At the conclusion of the war they were smashed and had nothing to offer, scant some miserable island territories confiscated by some of the victors. Japan has repeatedly apologized to its former enemies. Most have accepted, and moved on, even if they didn't fully feel like justice was served. Now that Japan is prosperous, China and Korea are indignant. Imagine that.

The Chinese and Korean DONT even ASK FOR MUCH. Millions of families ruined... victims of Japanese torture, rape, and "scientific experients" still live on, people still hear of their fathers, mothers, grandparents, uncles, aunts, slaughetered and tortured. ALL THEY WANT IS FOR THE LEADER OF JAPAN TO NOT HONOR THE CLASS A WAR CRIMINALS.

Seriously PYROS, seriously, be god-honest with yourself... does that seem to be TOO MUCH TO ASK?

If the Prime Minister of Germany visited a "shrine" that included Nazi leaders, and the Jewish people become outraged by this... would you call them indigant also?

I seriously don't understand...

[edit on 24-8-2006 by k4rupt]