Bush says Israel defeated Hezzbollah!

Well I say we discuss from both sides who (if any) really won this war! AAC

I for one, think that this is a dangerous statement, no matter what.


news.yahoo.com...

Well... it's not over... so nobody has won yet.

Considering that Israel is now in control of the majority of what Hezbollah controlled just a week and a half ago, I would say that that is an accurate statement. Or did they give up what they gained with the ceasefire?

Israel HARDLY "defeated" Hezbollah... if anything, they strengthened Hezbollah in terms of support. As we all know... support can be of great value in this war, and as Hezbollah gains support throughout the Islamic world, the war against them can hardly be called victorious.

Don't know if this is off-topic... but heres a VERY interesting watch as Mr. Galloway rips Sky News on it's biased reports in this war.

www.youtube.com...

Hezbollah still has well over half of their rockets left and a fire in their belly for a fight so whatever victory Bush may be proclaiming will be short lived, once they try to start disarming the hezbollah, the fighting will continue after a brief lull, in fact this cease fire could actually benefit hezbollah because now they have time to reload with more rockets.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by the_sentinal]

This statement is almost as stupid as, "Mission Accomplished." *in a pilot suit nonetheless*

I challenge the GWB supporters to find a time when bush was right... it could be about anything. I seriously want to know...
AAC

HAHAHAHAHA you were reading my mind AAC. Bush is either the King of optimism or a complete moron. Mission Accomplished! As soilders continue to die.

during the early days of this conflic Israel set certain aims that they wanted to achieve from this war, return of soldiers, to stop the rockets flying ect...
Considering they have achieved none of these aims it is pretty fair to say that they have in no way won this war and that in fact they have had their *#% handed to them in a big way.

Did he really say that? He could dig out that big "Mission Accomplished" banner again and FedEx it to Olmert

The man is delusional

What do you expect from a President who is an unrecovered drunk and drug abuser? Bush's brain has been irreparably crippled by years of chugging moonshine and snorting coc aine. The man can't see straight!

Wasn't this supposed to be to get back those two "kidnapped" Israeli soldiers?

If it was, then it was a failure, because they were not recovered.

The only way that this can be seen as a victory is if the original reason was to get a piece of Lebanon (Israel is a small country, but Lebanon is half the size of Israel) under Israeli control.

Oh, and for what it's worth, this is what Bush actually said...

Bush said Hezbollah lost, though Israel didn't knock out the guerrillas.

Israel's prime minister and Bush said the offensive eliminated the "state within a state" run by Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, however, declared that his guerrillas achieved a "strategic, historic victory" over Israel.

"Hezbollah, of course, has got a fantastic propaganda machine, and they're claiming victories," Bush said. "But how can you claim victory when, at one time, you were a state within a state, safe within southern Lebanon, and now you're going to be replaced by a Lebanese army and an international force?"

I was just going to take that quote, but I decided to put in context of the article. Now, it does say that Bush said Hezbollah lost, but does it actually have his words? No. For all we know, he could have been taken out of context. Of course, most people won't opt to believe that because they're all too quick to belittle our President.

Also, keep in mind, that Bush is looking at this war as a front in the War on Terror. From that perspective, since the terrorist regime has been crippled and is on its way out, I would definitely say this is a big step towards victory in the region.

With a 1000 civilians dead and who knows how many more other types of casualties(wounded, orphined, ..., men who's wives were killed, wives who's men were killed, ...) I'm fairly certain that the supporters Hesbollah lost over the last 6 years since Israel left Lebanon, have been replenished 10 fold at least. They probably also have loads of new recruits just lining up wanting to fight.

Looking how the Israeli military utterly decimating the economy, infrastructure and in some cases, flattening of big part of entire cities, there will be plenty of people who have no more work, place to go and place to live and plenty of people who now have an axe to grind with Israel.

Heck, even the US knows in Iraq that to fight insurgent or guerillia type forces, bombing a location only results in these guys packing up their # and moving to another area to just keep doing the same thing. The only way to stop these types of combatants is small ground patrols, soldiers going from house to house and a massive intel network established in the field to find the locations of weapons and safehouses so you can take the enemy out by surprise.

Bombing everything that moves will give you nothing but angry eyes from the civilians and another justification for the enemy to do their thing.

Originally posted by thematrix
Looking how the Israeli military utterly decimating the economy, infrastructure and in some cases, flattening of big part of entire cities, there will be plenty of people who have no more work, place to go and place to live and plenty of people who now have an axe to grind with Israel.

When has Israel flattened big parts of entire cities? They have bombed buildings where
they believe the enemy to be. Youve made it sound as if they carpet bombed Bierut or something. While it is true that those who have no more home or place to work, its just as much Hizballah's fault as it is Israels fault. What can you say in this situation except violence begets violence, which is very true in this case.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
This statement is almost as stupid as, "Mission Accomplished." *in a pilot suit nonetheless*

Bush was speaking of the fall of Baghdad and had flown to an aircraft carrier in the co-pilot's seat of a Navy S-3B Viking to make the statement. Yes, it was flamboyant and and maybe a bit over the top, but the point was to express gratitude to the military for having accomplished the mission of taking Baghdad. And, what would you have had him wear, one of these?



The inability for some Americans to understand the president's reasons for taking such a flight to make such a statement only proves to me that the most virulent enemies are among us and they are neither Arab nor Muslim. They are, well, we'll leave that for another discussion.

As to who won the war between Israel and Hezbollah, on the one hand Hezbollah is taking a hit because they have had their territory taken over by first the Israelis and later by the Lebanese. However, from the perspective of the enemies of Israel and the West, every casualty, even one, constitutes a victory in their cause.

Given their stated goals, it's tough to say Israel “won.”

But lots of people have buy swallowing Hezzbollah's agit-prop. Israel can and did invade Hezzbollah territory at will and kill them. The fact that they were able to retreat further north does not mean they “won”.

The only way Hezzbollah can fight is to hide behind women and children and lob rockets at civilians in Israel. They practice none of the restraint Israel does.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by Number23]

Originally posted by Number23
The only way Hezzbollah can fight is to hide behind women and children and lob rockets at civilians in Israel. They practice none of the restraint Israel does.

That is the difference between fighting against a country and fighting against a group of people.

When Israel was created they became a target in a way didn't existed before, now they had a land with houses and infrastructures that they had to defend.

If Lebanon was the Hezzbollah's country as Israel can be considered as the Jews' country, then it would be easier to target Hezzbollah and to say if the war was a success or a failure.

As the situation presents itself, we can only say that many people were killed in another stupid war that left thing worse than they were.

Israel failed in its objectives to destroy hezbollah in order to stop their rocket attacks against Israel and to rescue the soldiers taken captive by hezbollah. Since they failed in these aims...they lost. The 2 POWs are still captives in hezbollah's hands and the rockets can still strike at Israel.

I can't avoid thinking of Israeli forces as a demoralized bunch. They thought their American equipment would carry them to quick and easy victory, instead they're heading back home like dogs with their tail between their legs.

Originally posted by ludaChris
When has Israel flattened big parts of entire cities? They have bombed buildings where
they believe the enemy to be. Youve made it sound as if they carpet bombed Bierut or something. While it is true that those who have no more home or place to work, its just as much Hizballah's fault as it is Israels fault. What can you say in this situation except violence begets violence, which is very true in this case.

electronicintifada.net...

Really looks like a precision bombing of a specific building where specific targets were hiding doesn't it?

And thats only a sat pic from 1 neighbourhood in Beirut. We've seen plenty of coverage in the news that they bombed other cities and other locations in Beirut.

[edit on 15/8/06 by thematrix]

As Monday morning quarterbacking is concerned, if Israel had launched the ground invasion earlier they would almost have surely wiped out Hezbullah. Also, when Hezbullah is re-armed and resumes launching rockets and missiles against Israeli civilian populations, Israel will not make the same mistake.

As far as who the victor is, it's simply unfinished business or as it's said in classic 1980's TV -> "TO BE CONTINUED" - and the ending will most likely be a blockbuster!