Hezbollah Leader Claims 'Strategic, Historic Victory' Against Israel

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
I was talking about the "Israel is surrounded by people that want to wipe them out." garbage.

Pie

You're right, the Mediterranean Seas has stated yet that they do


Seriously though, are you disputing that? There's decades of history that says otherwise. What do you have?

No according to Bush...Israel won!

news.yahoo.com...

WASHINGTON - President Bush, just hours after a cease-fire took hold Monday, said Hezbollah guerillas had suffered a sound defeat at the hands of Israel in their monthlong Mideast war.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
I was talking about the "Israel is surrounded by people that want to wipe them out." garbage.

Pie

You're right, the Mediterranean Seas has stated yet that they do

Seriously though, are you disputing that? There's decades of history that says otherwise. What do you have?

If its been decades. Where is the proof? They are still there aren't they? All i see are 18,000 dead Lebanese, and god knows how many Palestinians are dead, so you show me where these decades of threats have proven to be true.

Israels silence means nothing. The population of Israel and the majority of her supporters call for the deaths of Arabs and muslims every day. Slogans to kill all arabs are all over Palestine. Sometimes even calls for nuking and turning the middle east into a parking lot or a big piece of glass.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
If its been decades. Where is the proof? They are still there aren't they?

Sure they are. And they're still vocal. They don't do anything because they can't....

All i see are 18,000 dead Lebanese

Where??

and god knows how many Palestinians are dead, so you show me where these decades of threats have proven to be true.

Well you have the 1948 war
the 56 war
the 67 war
the 70 war
the 82 war

And...
the first intifada
the second intifada if you want to include those....
(and the Gulf War)

The talk has been there constantly.

The population of Israel and the majority of her supporters call for the deaths of Arabs and muslims every day. Slogans to kill all arabs are all over Palestine. Sometimes even calls for nuking and turning the middle east into a parking lot or a big piece of glass.

Now it's MY turn to ask you....
Where's your proof!?!?!?

17,000 in the first Lebanon-Israeli war 1,100 in #2 thats where I get my figures.
How many dead civilians in israel this war? 36!? How many dead soldiers from israel in #1? 675 Israeli soldiers were killed. Since it didn't affect Israel the last time the civilian casualties were null. How many Israeli soldiers this time 60+?



Pie

Hezbollah clearly won this war. Israel tried to destroy them: they failed.

Israel tried to get their soldiers back: they failed.

Whether or not they even established a buffer zone has yet to be seen.

We can all thank our friends on the left for this (who are no doubt celebrating).

Hezbollah terrorists (and their supporters in this thread ) are claiming victory?

Please... Just one question.

Why is the IDF standing on the banks of the Litani river?



IF Hezbollah was victorious they would be camped on the outskirts of Tel Aviv, no?

Let me get this straight... Hezbollah is claiming victory because SOME of them are still alive?

News flash! Tell Iran to send more volunteers (read civilian casualties ).



No! I don't want to be a 'volunteer'... Well neither do I! Let's send Rashim... He'll 'volunteer' for anything!

Nasrallah is acting like the big hero? What... Cuz he's alive?



Tell him to come out from his hiding place inside the Iranian embassy...

Some 'hero'... Hiding in the embassy...

Very typical Arab leader... Letting others do the fighting... AND dying.

Hmm.... I wonder how many MINUTES he would remain alive in the open?

Anyhow, I thought this thread could use a little input from an honest observer (read someone a with something approaching some attachment to reality rather than our Hezbollah supporters).

Originally posted by golemina
Hezbollah terrorists (and their supporters in this thread

) are claiming victory?

Originally posted by golemina
So by claiming Israel didn't won this war, you are automatically labeled as Hezbollah supporter?

I guess the objectives of the Israeli government didn't reach your attention.

We'll keep fighting till peacekeepers arrive: Olmert
Olmert says fighting in Lebanon will stop when soldiers are freed
Olmert Says Fighting to End When Hezbollah Disarms

Originally posted by golemina
Please... Just one question.

Why is the IDF standing on the banks of the Litani river?

Not to hard to figure out, because of the generous support from the US, which gives Israel the possibility to have an advanced military. The fact that the Israeli army exists primarily of conscripts made it possible to have such a large amount of troops near the Latina. But one question for you: did the IDF manage to disarm Hezbollah?

Don't worry, I'll answer that question myself. No, they did not indeed.

Originally posted by golemina
Let me get this straight... Hezbollah is claiming victory because SOME of them are still alive?

You and I both don't know how many are alive. How would you know what number of Hezbollah militants were there at the beginning of the conflict? I know Olmert claims that the IDF killed 300 militants. Any proof? No. Since the Israeli intelligence agency wasn't even able to indentify the weaponry of Hezbollah I really don't believe anything they claim.

Originally posted by golemina
News flash! Tell Iran to send more volunteers (read civilian casualties

).

So what you basically say is that you like to see people dying on both sides?

Originally posted by golemina
Very typical Arab leader... Letting others do the fighting... AND dying.

So you suggest Olmert actively participates in the war, shooting down Hezbollah militants?

Originally posted by golemina
Hmm.... I wonder how many MINUTES he would remain alive in the open?

I guess you remember the David and Goliath story, don't you?

Originally posted by golemina
Anyhow, I thought this thread could use a little input from an honest observer (read someone a with something approaching some attachment to reality rather than our Hezbollah supporters).

Oh yes, you are the chosen one to come here as honest objective observer don't you? Well I will honestly tell you I am 100% against Israel's policy and barbaric way of dealing with this conflict. If you'd like to draw the conclusion that it makes me a pro-Hezbollah then so be it. I must say I don't care, like you made yourself clear you don't care about the innocent people dying every day in Lebanon.




[edit on 15-8-2006 by Mdv2]

This so laughable and the bickering going on in this thread shows that you people have no insight to the middle eastern mindset or even that of human nature.

When the US invaded and wiped out Iraq's ability to wage war in the first gulf war the Iraqis media claimed

"the US has lost the mother of all battles and retreated because they lost"

This of course was clearly not the case but if you print the news what does it matter? say what you want.

No middle easterner will ever claim "defeat".... most human beings will never claim defeat...it is not in most people's nature to make oneself appear weak by their own admision.

My personal opinion is that hezbollah was suffering damage to their infrastructure so agreed to a cease fire while claiming "strategic victory". you know? make yourself look like the bigger man or that you actually accomplished something.

It's all human nature.....just as the side taking in this thread is in human nature.

My thoughts are that the cease fire is just to bide their time to rebuild. The day will come where Israel will hear no more "cease fires" or "truces" and just completely anihilate hezbollah. Unfortuneately this will cause mass casualties and a general destabilization of the surrounding area.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
This so laughable and the bickering going on in this thread shows that you people have no insight to the middle eastern mindset or even that of human nature.

When the US invaded and wiped out Iraq's ability to wage war in the first gulf war the Iraqis media claimed

"the US has lost the mother of all battles and retreated because they lost"

This of course was clearly not the case but if you print the news what does it matter? say what you want.

No middle easterner will ever claim "defeat".... most human beings will never claim defeat...it is not in most people's nature to make oneself appear weak by their own admision.

Oh Yeah! I remember that one. Ha ha that was funny!

Nah, some of us understand perfectly...

>I guess the objectives of the Israeli government didn't reach your attention.



I'm sorry when I hear what passes for 'logic' among terrorist supporters, I really crack up.

Needless to say... I laugh a LOT.

Ah, the Middle Eastern mindset...

The Arab crowing of victory (sounds curiously like a nervous barking dog)... eg 'Syrian has nuclear weapons'... 'Iran has stealth weapons'... etc. etc. etc.

Denying the elephant standing in the living room complex (IDF standing on the banks of the Litani Do you need for me to draw you a picture?). Arabs: We won! We won! That will teach the IDF! Beg for peace... OR we'll give you more of that.

My absolute personal favorite is Methinks Thou Doth Protest Too Much complex where endless yaking about unending (and non-related of course ) details can somehow/majicallly erase the truth standing in front of us all.

(eg >I guess the objectives of the Israeli government didn't reach your attention. )

(Don't be afraid to jump in and add your own observations... )

It's rather humorous...

Originally posted by golemina
I'm sorry when I hear what passes for 'logic' among terrorist supporters, I really crack up.

Apparently, it's really to hard for you to understand, but don't worry, I'm patient with people like you

Watch carefully (if you're capable) :

We'll keep fighting till peacekeepers arrive: Olmert
Olmert says fighting in Lebanon will stop when soldiers are freed
Olmert Says Fighting to End When Hezbollah Disarms

Yes, you read it correctly . Elaborate which of the above stated goals, set by Olmert have been accomplished today. Oh, that's a surprise , none has been accomplished.

Originally posted by golemina
'Iran has stealth weapons'

My friend, you should educate yourself. Months ago it became known Iran is in possession of stealth weapons. Even or Pro Zionist Fox News has been reporting it:

Stealth weapons

Originally posted by golemina
Denying the elephant standing in the living room complex

It stands there yes, without accomplishing much, ey? In the pre-cease-fire time, each and every day Hezbollah was able to fire more missiles on Israel. Has our mighty elephant been capable of stopping the missile attacks? No, you are right, the weren't able to do so. The IDF blames its government of it, and the government fired one of the campaign commanders. But hey reality can be hard to deal with huh?

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
No middle easterner will ever claim "defeat".... most human beings will never claim defeat...it is not in most people's nature to make oneself appear weak by their own admision.

Agreed - Israel would do the same though.

My personal opinion is that hezbollah was suffering damage to their infrastructure so agreed to a cease fire while claiming "strategic victory". you know? make yourself look like the bigger man or that you actually accomplished something.

What infrastructure? 150+ of Lebanese bridges?

And on topic: Each side lost, this war shames the world.

so if what happens when hezobollah continues to launch its very inaccurate missles again?


isreal goes back in or what?

so the IDF is standing on the banks of the Litani? how did hezbollah win then? i thought there was a cease fire and thats why isreal is leaving. where am i wrong?

do you think hezbollah will abduct more isrealis now that this has happend?

You really look good all dressed in derogatory like that!



Yes, I'm sure Hezbollah has put the mother of all defeats on the IDF...

Again

Those mighty Iranian stealth weapons were curiously absent from this Lebanon engagement. Maybe the kite strings didn't reach that far...

If you were ever to leave the ivory towers of your propaganda delusion... You might see that this Lebanon thing was hardly close to a war... think of it as more of an extended skirmish.

Quite frankly it came off more like an intelligence gathering operation.

But that would be for people actually paying attention.

Where you paying attention?

Beyond the posturing and bloviating, do you have any evidence to present that the Israeli's incursion into Lebanon achieved any of it's goals?

1) Hezbollah "destroyed": nope.
2) Getting the soldiers back: nope.
3) Turning the Lebanese against Hezbollah: nope, quite the opposite.

Israel managed to turn more world & certainly Lebanese opinion against it, lose scores of soldiers and tanks, incur hundreds of rocket attacks... and for what gained?

Beyond deluded triumphalist nonsense, what do you have to offer?
Any arguments, or just posturing and a disturbing excess of smileys?

The title of this thread is Hezbollah claims victory....

Funny how they changed the meaning of victory from 'a successful mission in which the enemy is destroyed' to 'we survived'

The war was just about to start when a cease fire was agreed to. Within a couple months, those objectives xmotex would have likely been achieved (except #3 - that was never a stated objective and it not realistic)

But what did Hezbollah do to claim victory? There's an international force on it's way to keep them in check, they wasted 1000s of rockets that didn't hurt the Israeli military one bit, they lost hundreds of troops, and they lost a ton of infastructure. And for what? To try and get a few prisoners? This was all pointless.

Hezbollah has gained a huge amount of political support in Lebanon, which is why they can get away with claiming victory. By attacking Lebanon in general in the name of "stopping Hezbollah", they have ensured Hezbollah will remain a major force for decades, with the support of most Lebanese. GG Israel

Infrastructure? Mostly it was Lebanese infrastructure that was destroyed, not Hezbollah's. One defining aspect of a guerilla army is that they posess little infrastructure to destroy.

Hundreds of casualties? Well, if you're counting Lebanese civilians killed in their beds as "Hezbollah" casualties, sure... I'm sure they lost some fighters. Hundreds? I have my doubts.

And I thoroughly doubt Israel could have "destroyed Hezbollah" if they'd stayed there a couple months, or even a couple years, if the past is any indication. No matter how powerful your military is, historically occupation armies have been consistently unable to "defeat" guerilla forces. This has already proven true for the Israelis in Lebanon, but they keep trying. You have to admire the tenacity it takes to keep repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results....

I'll agree on one thing: it was pointless, on both sides, but I doubt Hezbollah sees it that way.

[edit on 8/16/06 by xmotex]

Originally posted by Jakomo

As for Hezbollah, they sure didn't lose. They fired more and more rockets into Israel as the conflict went on, despite heavy bombardment by the Israeli air force.

And they still have the soldiers, who will be EXCHANGED in a prisoner swap with Israel, which was exactly why they took them prisoner in the first place, apparently.

Plus, because of the perception by a lot in the Arab world that Israel targetted civilians (or at least indiscriminately bombed them), Hezbollah's recruitment is probably through the roof. More children died to Israeli bombs than did Hezbollah soldiers, apparently, and that'll probably make it's way onto a flyer in Jordan somewhere.

and to the above points i'd add that Hezbollah also won the the 'victimhood'
title that the Jews and Israel once owned.

the more i read, the more i'm persuaded by logic & reason that Hezbollah
went into the conflict with the idea of the Lebanese and the Hezbollah militia
having large numbers of casualties and inticed/invited the Israeli AF to inflict the infrastructure overkill to southern Lebanon....Victimhood par excellance!

[edit on 16-8-2006 by St Udio]