Does today's failed terror plot change your mind regarding 9/11?

Terrorism is defined as illegal use of force

That's a pretty loose definition.

I'd define it more as the act of specifically targetting and terrorizing, harming, and or killing civillians in an attempt to shape government policy.

While I won't argue that the US invasion of Iraq wasn't highly illegal...(it was), I will argue that it wasn't "terrorism".

On the other hand, I WOULD categorize the deliberate targeting of apartments, etc. by Israel as terrorism, and I'm no fan of either side in THAT conflict. Both are simply out to kill as many of each other as they can. Since the US sees them as killing a common enemy, it's no wonder most really don't care all that much about it, but it's still wrong, no matter how you slice it. On the flip side, hard to do anything diplomatic about it, when the terrorists are the ones in office (as in Lebanon)...so their actions aren't all that surprising.

I still can't believe the US is behind 911. There were plenty of ways to achieve the same goal without crippling industry and the entire economy at the time. I just can't believe that a bunch of fat cats who live and die on interest rates, stock prices, etc. purposefully orchestrated their own reduction of fortunes...c'mon.

That said, sure, after the fact, I have no doubt that some high in power used that influence to get their ties to likely suspects out of dodge in a hurry....but I don't think they orchestrated it.

Thing is, no matter WHAT security measures you try, if there is a concerted effort, eventually it will happen. For example, any idiot CIA spook could stuff some C-4 in a few lipstick cases, and build a detonator from a personal calculator or even a cell phone, so the idea is ludicrous to keep liquids off planes. Likewise, a false baby formula container could accomplish the same thing. Enough with the ideas though, terrorists will simply have to rely on their own wits.

We're still just biding time folks. Despite your feelings on WHO is behind it, we WILL see another 911 style attack eventually succeed. I wish it wasn't so, and I'm glad it hasn't happened yet, but it is inevitable, and it will be inevitably worse.....

Unfortunately I never got to have a word with him - but I could tell instantly by looking at him that his mind was lightyears ahead of what was going on. The critics like to insult his inteligence - but he's a pretty darn bright guy. Maybe not the best photo boy, but who ever sounds inteligent on a camera?

I'm sure his mind was elsewhere...but likely not light years ahead of anything, hehe..... We don't need critics to tell he's an idiot, just listen to him. Sorry, but being the leader of the free world for over 5 years, he's kind of out of the learning curve. Despite his college education, it's fairly obvious his connections, not his intelligence got him through. I'm still cringing from the debates, hehe... Kerry, with the charisma of the average rock, ran circles around him, and that's scary....

[edit on 10-8-2006 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Frith
Terrorism is defined as illegal use of force

No it isnt. There is a different definition of terrorism within each and every law enforcement and government agency in the US. I'm sure its much of the same in other countries. I took a class on terrorism and found that out when our textbook gave many different definitions of the word. As a matter of fact our first assignment was to define terrorism in our own words, which was to prove this point. Check this, they cant even get one definition down at the UN.

Terrorism Definitions
Terroism Definitions 2
Terrorism Definitions 3

Anyhow, on topic I believe there are groups of people out there who would do us harm if they could. I dont think the government is involved except to stop them. Honestly, they whole "the government is doing this to take our rights away" argument has gained no ground and in my opinion has no footing to stand on. My life has not changed since 9/11. I dont fear terrorists. I dont fear the government(except the IRS). I dont understand how this argument is still used.

I don't really have this as a mind changer since 9/11, look at everything else that's gone on since we started our "War on Terror", I'm not suprised a group of brainwashed "Al Qaeda" operatives were going to pull through with this.

If a group of people insist on using violence on innocent people regardless of nationality then violence is going to be recupricated.

Hatred breeds hatred; violence breeds violence

When you attack somebody unjustly chances are they will respond in like manner.

Hence, I don't play that game. I believe everybody is entitled to live in peace and safety within their own environment.

Terrorists attack even their own kind; regardless of nationality. Even in war; the majority of casualties are not the military, but innocent people, who are not wanting to take part.

In acts of war and terrorism; it is the innocent who are killed.

Wouldn't it be great to ship all military and terrorists to an isolated island and planet and let them battle it out there without involving innocent people who have no means of protecting themselves and are not involved.

What makes me angry is the children end up being the main casualties. War and terrorism doesn't discriminate between those who are fighting and the innocent. The percentage of people killed in war and terrorism is quite a large margin.

The largest percentile that are killed are civilians, who are not involved in the war, or acts of terrorism. It is always the innocent who pay the price, no matter if they are Muslim, Christian, or Jew.

Originally posted by mecheng
Does today's failed terror plot change your mind regarding 9/11?

NO

Why would it?

Same group, different day, same agenda.

They have one goal, bring the United States to it's knees and allow them to take control over the entire world.

Are we talking about muslims, NO.

The muslims are just brainwashed puppets. The hit men for the order if you would.


[edit on 11-8-2006 by In nothing we trust]

I'm not convinced that anything at all was thwarted. I suspect that something was engineered to help the "wolves in sheep's clothing", aka Bush, Blair & a few others, to appear to be the good guys.

I think that our and Great Britain's intel forces are so weak that they could not have possibly stopped a true terrorist attack. I don't for a minute believe that the only target of terrorists is airplanes. If terrorists want to be in this country and are prepared to bomb, then we would have already seen bombs going off all over the place....in places that you wouldn't even imagine....city buses, trains, trucks on major bridges, sporting events. Real terrorists have sights big and small.

I think this is an orchistrated event designed to bolster support for a party that has made some bad decisions and is now trying to save face as election time approaches.

Unfortunately, I think that much of America wants to believe this lie so badly that they'll bite onto it...hook, line and sinker. It's a good time to watch "Wag the Dog" again.

There is a good chance that this whole thing is a red herring. While they've got everyone turning luggage inside out at the airports, something else is going on somewhere else where the press is not looking.

Look deeper people!!!

No it does not change my mind.

9/11 was the Start, it was the lighting of the fuse which is planned to ignite a powder keg later down the line.

With 9/11 acomplished and greater termoil in the Middle East the cycle is self Perpetuating and will fuel itself from here on.

All you have to do it push the first domino, the rest will fall by themselves.

Once again Super man has saved the day, protecting us from "might be bad guys," who would destroy us all using a jar of peppered vasaline and a bottle of suntan lotion.

George Bush says, in so many words, well looks like even though we are doing so much to protect America, we need to do more. And still we leave our borders wide open to any and all who would come here to hurt us. Hmmmm?

Do the rulers of the land really want to protect us? No! with every thwarted"attack" they impliment more control over the citzenry of this country.
I need six pieces of identification to get a drivers license renewed. But I can't even use it to get on a plane any more. I must have a new I D to fly, one with a iris scan, fingerprint. shoelace size, and a fecal swatch- you get the point!

So, In light of this "thwarted attack", you got to ask your self, what are you going to be willing to give up next to be safe from the boogie man?

This really is begininng to look like that movie The village You remember it, everyone is kept in line by periodically scaring them into line with the use of concocted enemies.

So where is this all leading us? I believe it is leading us all directly into the time period decribed in Revelation chapter 13. The end result is to mark every "safe person" alive. Logically, those who refuse this new mark, whatever it may be, well they must be the bad guys then right?

stay tuned! its coming!

Originally posted by mecheng
To the people who believe 9/11 was an inside job...

If it's proven that Al Qaeda was behind today's plot to blow up numerous airliners headed for the US (and it’s looking like they are) does that change your mind at all as to who was actually behind 9/11?

Does this plot reinforce the theory (or fact, depending on who you believe) that Al Qaeda was really responsible for 9/11 as we’ve been told all along?

No, not really. I don't remember Congress declaring a war against anybody so there is no war against terrorism. Now thanks to some kind of inside job I can't enjoy my favorite sports drink while traveling to the Orient for business. Next thing to go is my Ipod so no more Black Eyed Peas on my red eye express to LA to hook up with my peeps in venice beach. What's up with that?

[edit on 11-8-2006 by carnival_of_souls2047]

To me, this just proves further that 9/11 was an inside job, and this "terrorism" is just there to scare us all.

Bush and Blair have nothing to gain from this, politically. They are both pretty much done with their political careers. So why would they care if their ratings went further south?

Imo, this incident and 9/11 are not related. Except that both are examples of the actions of a group whose goal is to destroy the west.

The ironic part is that, had these plots succeeded, any evidence would be spread out over the mid-Atlantic, practically unretrievable. And that would have spurred the same type of arguments that 9/11 did, whereby some still do not believe that planes actually struck a target, ala the Pentagon.

If anything this just strengthens my suspicions of government funded terrorism in both 9/11 and 7/7. They've just learned to do it now w/out the massive loss of life. Wherever we are now heading, it can't be good. We either side with them and become war monger sympathizers or we continue to be suspicious and hope they don't decide to aim for the civilians.

Ok, sounds to me like most people here who feel 9/11 was an inside job also feel the failed airline bomb plot was probably engineered by the government as well to keep us heading down an authoritarian path...

So then what, if anything, would it take to prove to you that these are actually terrorists... enemies of the US & UK... that are behind these types of actions?

Is there anything? Or is every terrorist plot in the future, particularly from Al Qaeda, going to be attributed by ATS'ers to the US government without debate?

Also, what happened yesterday that made up your mind that the government, not say Al Qaeda, engineered it? Is it just a feeling or were there actual discrepancies in the official story that formed your opinion? Isn't it a little early to flat out say the government was behind this one? At least opinions against the official story behind 9/11 were formed over a longer period of time with a lot of contradicting evidence.

I'll give you one of many reasons and this goes for 7/7 as well. We all know by reading and watching what's been happening in the Middle East - suicide bombers look for opportunities and crowds. Any amount of deaths, obviously the more the better, serves their immediate purpose.

So, what do we have instead of random hateful attacks? Carefully planned executions that 'somehow' get found out at the last minute by our wonderful intelligence groups. And how they get found out too is something to note. They all went to the same terrorist camp? They all had their picture taken together? They accidently left important relevant documents in a backpack? They went rafting together? Come on...

Did you not see Heathrow on the new yesterday? How perfect would it be for one person carrying the gatorade/baby milk/contact lens solution bomb to take advantage of a moment of panic, if still trapped in an airport.

Nope... too easy. Especially if the majority of suspects were rounded up the previous evening. So all those people were doing what exactly at the airport yesterday? What was the purpose of detaining them? Were they checking planes? People? Luggage? If so, why not clear out in case of a real bomb? Even before the announcement, this was taken for granted. IN case of a worst case scenario don't you think the safety of people comes first? They had media people at the airport al day.

Likewise the situation with the panicking during 7/7 and yet suprisingly...nothing happened other than the 50 or so unfortunate deaths. All those stranded walking around dazed and afraid, huddled together for convenience could have actually been a horrific casualty, even if the initial plan had backfired. Because if you have hatred and lack of respect for any life, what is a few arrests and maybe even your death in comparison? Yes, look again - no suicide bombers on the streets of London - Not one for ten lives, not one for one life.


Nothing.

Just smoke and mirrors.



[edit on 11-8-2006 by nikelbee]

Originally posted by mecheng
To the people who believe 9/11 was an inside job...

If it's proven that Al Qaeda was behind today's plot to blow up numerous airliners headed for the US (and it’s looking like they are) does that change your mind at all as to who was actually behind 9/11?

Does this plot reinforce the theory (or fact, depending on who you believe) that Al Qaeda was really responsible for 9/11 as we’ve been told all along?

Just curious.

actually no, it furthermore makes me question the government.
why would terrorists blow up a plane?
they wouldn't they would blow up the terminal where the plane takes off or where it lands
without terminals the planes are useless
also more people are in a terminal than on a plane which means more people to cause harm to which leads to more mass hysteria and further collapse of the airline companies which eventually leads to people not being able to fly anywhere because all the airlines went out of business

ok, that's a worst case scenario, but seriously, planes crash or explode all the time, impact on society would be minimal
but a terminal being attacked, even if no one was hurt it would scare enough people to cause problems

whatever happened to the good old days when terrorists hijacked planes to make political statements then safely landed the planes and let the passengers off?

oh wait, that's right, "bush co." happened!

Exactly what I was saying. It strikes me that if you are desperate enough to want to kill, you will find more creative ways and you won't wave your hands around like an idiot until they come for you and all your obvious croonies at night.

One can take out a LOT of people in crowded streets of any big city.






(pesky commas)

[edit on 11-8-2006 by nikelbee]

Originally posted by mecheng
Also, what happened yesterday that made up your mind that the government, not say Al Qaeda, engineered it? Is it just a feeling or were there actual discrepancies in the official story that formed your opinion? Isn't it a little early to flat out say the government was behind this one? At least opinions against the official story behind 9/11 were formed over a longer period of time with a lot of contradicting evidence.

i'd have to go with the sheere absurdty of blowing up planes from inside
why not just shoot down the planes?
the "terrorists" suposedly have rpg's and such
also a rifle could theoretically shoot down a plane if it were flying low enough
or a weapon could be developed that fires grenades with strong magnets on them to stick to planes
they could tag a plane on the runway then remote detonate it as it takes off

there are just so many other ways that make far more sense (and are much simpler) than blowing up a plane by mixing liquid chemicals and detonating it with a cellphone

for god sake, these people probably are not McGiver or Tom Cruse!

I think those of you who decided that this stunt was another enactment by the powers that be are correct.

The event that took place yesterday were convincing, but at the same time they did not offer any evidence to suggest that it was going to take place, they have simply arrested a bunch of Asian guys and told us that they were going to attack. How do we know they were? As for these 'scares' being brought about to reduce our freedoms? I think your not far off the truth. I dont know how many of you are from the UK but I am and on the news yesterday the Department of Transport announced that the new 'no hand luggage or liquids' rule is to probably be made permanent. I am not personally affraid of a terrorist attack as the chances of being killed in one are less than being struck by lightning. I dont worry about stepping outside and being killed by a storm.

Those who dont believe that 9/11 was orchastrated by our govenments are being deluded. Where is the evidence that it was Al Qeada? I see no hard proof that it was them, appart from a US claim that it was. Even Osama Bin Laden did not CLAIM to have pulled off 9/11, he simply praised the attacks.

Speaking of Bin Laden, he has not released any video's in the past two years appart from one which featured a still photo of him. Suspicious? I think so. Where is he now? Why has he not appeared in public in so long? Why is it his second in command who is releasing all videos from the group? The US, who were so adament about finding and capturing Bin Laden has not even mentioned his name in a long time, out of sight out of mind? You would think that if he had done 9/11 that the US would want to bring him to justice, as this is one of the things that they believe in the most is it not? Justice and freedom?

I firmly believe that we have been and are being lied to over and over again. For what purpose I do not know, but that is something that time will only tell us.

Originally posted by DarkUK
I firmly believe that we have been and are being lied to over and over again. For what purpose I do not know, but that is something that time will only tell us.

the purpose is simple, people are easier to control when they are afraid
they will accept whatever you do as long as you tell them it's for their own good
need more proof?
think about how you take your kids to the doctor and tell them its to keep them healthy and the shot wont hurt
then the doctor jabs em in the arm with a needle and they scream bloody murder

the only difference between this and what the world's governments are doing right now is that your arm stops bleeding after a few minutes and the shot really was for your own good
giving up freedom for security is not only foolish, it's down right dictatorial and Orwellian
next i suppose they'll be constructing a giant metal mesh above our heads to protect us from the evil terrorist (, hacker, communist) lightning bolts

many men died for your freedoms, do not hand them back so easily
it was once said, "give me liberty or give me death"
in the words of Teal'c from stargate sg1, "I die free"

the purpose is simple, people are easier to control when they are afraid
they will accept whatever you do as long as you tell them it's for their own good

I completely agreee with you here, they do want everyone to remain affraid and dependant on their protection from whatever boogeyman happens to be round the corner today. I think its a big crock of bull excrement. The only thing I am affraid of is what these zealot nut cases are actually up to in the long run, this is what I do not know. They obviously have some well planned agenda, and they are not affraid of putting it right there in front of our faces. There are enough signs out there, you just have to be open minded enough to see them.
I watched the news for a long time at work yesterday following the 'terrifying' events that unfolded and I swear, if I had one good old english pund for every person they interviewed who said they were 'affraid', I would be a rich man! Everyone was saying how they would be happy to put up with the new security if it meant they were safe. Their need to keep everyone scared and dependant on them and their obvious use of terrorists to achieve this seems to be working. These people are asleep if they cannot see that there is NO immediate threat to them, the only people that really need to be worried are the civilians of the middle east who are being erradicated and forced out for some higher purpose set in motion by people with a bit too much money and influence, money and influence that has turned into greed and caused these people to become something other than human.